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| Thread: Starting underground | |
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gnohmon
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 24, 2005 05:44 AM |
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Starting underground
If you choose to play inferno, dungeon, even necro, your starting town may be underground.
The way the random mapmaker works, an underground start can easily mean that your woor or your ore are a week's walk away (not counting the monsters you may have to fight to get there!). Even with dungeon's "native territory" bonus, this is painful.
When you start on the surface, often the random map surround your town in two directions with a bunch of mountains ans a similar problem applies; but it seems to me that an underground start is worse: much more often, an above-ground start means that you have access to many more resources and a road that leads to an easy second town.
In online games, the templates that are used must, I guess, have ben adjusted to avoid tese problems. Is it so? How is it done?
But in the single-player game, with the default templates, choosing castle or rampart or conflux seems to be much easier simply because you do *not* usually start underground.
Please do not comment that I'm just a noob because I play against the AI. When I play online against humans, I play chess, not homm.
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Jebus
Promising
Supreme Hero
TheJester akaJeebs akaJebfoo
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posted August 24, 2005 06:47 PM |
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Im no expert on this but....
most online players DO use generated maps that have been adapted or edited to assure that that type of bug is eliminated. The homm3 random map generator has A-HA-LOT
of bugs that screw the balance of the game.
(anyone can correct me on this) 
... a chess player eh?? I'll have to find you on the zone (but we shouldn't discuss that here) 
____________
"You went over my helmet??"
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Russ
Promising
Supreme Hero
blah, blah, blah
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posted August 24, 2005 07:02 PM |
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Well, one simple way to avoid starting underground would be deselecting the underground option
Also, .rmg templates do not allow you to change the way terrain is generated. All it has is rules on how many towns/mines there are in each area, it also specifies the value of the "treasure" in your area (the game decides on what will guard it based on its value).
You *could* make random template with a very small starting area that only has wood/ore mines + some gold/chests in it without any monsters and an unguarded passage to a 2-nd "starting area" with the rest, but when I tried it, the random map generator messed the map up even worse.
____________
Vegetarian: Old Indian word for Bad Hunter.
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tigris
Supreme Hero
Supreme Noobolator
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posted August 24, 2005 07:16 PM |
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Quote:
The way the random mapmaker works, an underground start can easily mean that your wood or your ore are a week's walk away (not counting the monsters you may have to fight to get there!). Even with dungeon's "native territory" bonus, this is painful.
This is very much true, the explanation is simple:underground home area is always smaller and usualy sucks compared to the surface and most of all to grassThe way to fix this is generate no under maps when you are using a starting town like those you enumerated.Another argument for this is that this combination underground-necro/dungeon may actually mess up the maps.Take jebus for exemple: the treasure zone will always be in the underground.But if a player will also be in the underground, this will mean his starting zone will be very small and he won't stand a chance most of the time.So the best way is to avoid this is make a no underground map when using those castles.
Quote:
When you start on the surface, often the random map surround your town in two directions with a bunch of mountains ans a similar problem applies
I don't agree with this, the only drawback is that you have to fight cripts on native terrain wich might prouve tricky even with a good start.
Quote:
In online games, the templates that are used must, I guess, have ben adjusted to avoid tese problems. Is it so? How is it done?
it's not really true that these problems are solved, but people don't play wit6h under very often on the zone so that's solve it straight away. also necro is banned from most games and dungeon is rarely chosen as starting town
Quote:
But in the single-player game, with the default templates, choosing castle or rampart or conflux seems to be much easier simply because you do *not* usually start underground.
it's all about the allignament you enjo playing the most
Quote:
Please do not comment that I'm just a noob because I play against the AI. When I play online against humans, I play chess, not homm.
kick jebus's butt
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Jebus
Promising
Supreme Hero
TheJester akaJeebs akaJebfoo
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posted August 24, 2005 07:36 PM |
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Just wondering though...
If a player choses dungeon on a random template (take Jebus for ex ) and then removes undergroud on map generator, wouldn't that player loose the terrain bonuses of having a castle on his land? (like rampart on grass)
So if that's the case, no wonder many online players don't pick underground castles very often!
(except Lee of course )
(oh and i welcome the chess challenge)
____________
"You went over my helmet??"
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted August 24, 2005 07:52 PM |
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Quote:
Just wondering though...
If a player choses dungeon on a random template (take Jebus for ex ) and then removes undergroud on map generator, wouldn't that player loose the terrain bonuses of having a castle on his land? (like rampart on grass)...
No he wouldnīt....dungeon and necro have more than 1 homeland...they have "cave" (underground) and "dirt" as native terrain.
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Jebus
Promising
Supreme Hero
TheJester akaJeebs akaJebfoo
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posted August 24, 2005 08:22 PM |
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so would the random generator automatically place either of these castles with that starting terrain??
(as opposed to getting screwed with dungeon on grass or snow? snow beeing an exageration here)
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"You went over my helmet??"
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Russ
Promising
Supreme Hero
blah, blah, blah
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posted August 24, 2005 09:15 PM |
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Edited By: Russ on 24 Aug 2005
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No he wouldnīt....dungeon and necro have more than 1 homeland...they have "cave" (underground) and "dirt" as native terrain.
But this new dirt homeland is not very friendly to the Dungeon as it does not give the +1 bonuses :-(
____________
Vegetarian: Old Indian word for Bad Hunter.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted August 24, 2005 09:19 PM |
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I guess you are right here Russ.....only necro has 2 native terrains...but dungeon also starts on dirt when underground is disabled.....
____________
Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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gnohmon
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 27, 2005 04:37 AM |
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Quote:
I guess you are right here Russ.....only necro has 2 native terrains...but dungeon also starts on dirt when underground is disabled.....
I didn't realize that, about "two native terrains". Except, somehow dirt is native but not native for Dungeon :-)
I learn something new every time I look around here.
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zsa
Famous Hero
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posted August 29, 2005 02:46 AM |
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Edited By: zsa on 28 Aug 2005
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I personally prefer starting with dungeon underground. Where did this idea come from that Underground sucks? Underground is more packed with troops, but it's also generally more rich. I hate starting upperground with dungeon, troops don't get bonus movement (which i find it to be extremely important), and taking crypts can be a real pain on dirt. Why would you prefer dirt over ug, beats me.
Sometimes it can happen that the lumber or ore mine is further away that 2-3 days, but that happened to me in upperground as well.
Of course if you play closed maps you might not like ug as much as upper, but that's different.
Where did this nobody online plays ug maps come from? My last 4 games on toh were on ug maps, with good players as well (NOT EXXXTREME jebus players).
Edit: No angelito, dungeon only has one native terrain. I thought native terrain was defined as the terrain that gives you the speed advantage.
You can't define it in terms of what terrain you could start on. Heck you can start with tower on inferno terrain on midnight's mix.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted August 29, 2005 02:02 PM |
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Quote:
Edit: No angelito, dungeon only has one native terrain. I thought native terrain was defined as the terrain that gives you the speed advantage.
You can't define it in terms of what terrain you could start on. Heck you can start with tower on inferno terrain on midnight's mix.
I mentioned already, that dirt isnīt native to dungeon like necro is, but dirt still is the "homeland" for dungeon when underground is disabled. And you can define it with your starting area, coz u can enable that in the rmg template. There is a section which says "Terrain" and the first row says "match to town". If u mark this row and disable "cave" now, dungeon will always start on dirt.
If Tower starts on lava terrain, then the row "Terrain match to town" isnīt marked.
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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