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| Thread: More on Mohammed and the freedom of speech issue |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV |
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Shiva
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted March 08, 2006 09:25 PM |
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I agree with the fact that anger, or the use of violence in general, is a major problem in todays world. To me it sometimes seems like though there have never been this many advanced ways of communicating, there has never been this few true communication... perhaps this is why many people are so frustrated and angry?
I disagree with your statement however. Sure, insults are nothing new. But the scale and magnitude of this sort of insults due to mass media and modern communication techniques is totally new for the information age.
Anger or violence shouldn't be the answer to this whole cartoon story, but what gives us the right to mock with another culture, another religion like this?
In my opinion this is not just a response to these cartoons as such, but they are used as an icon of what they see as the bad or evil influence of the west on their culture - hence the reaction seems completely out of proportion by us.
If this is a result of "the bad influence of the West"
then why was the reaction a result of a campaign by
Muslims living in Denmark? They are living in Europe,
yet ultimately would like to influence European culture
to conform to their fundamental values.
I do feel some discrimination is needed in all forms of
expression, yet the disproportinate response that
resulted is worse by several orders of magnitude than
the cartoons. It reminds me of when I was a kid, some
guy was beating on my brother, so I threw a little pebble
at him, hit him in the finger. He pitched a big rock at
my head, resulting in a few stitches.
If history had turned another way, Europe could have
been conquered by the Muslims. It was that close. These
civilizations have been at it off and on for 1,000's of
years. To say the West is to blame for the stagnation
of some Islamic nations is wrong. Nor can the West change
these countries for the better. Change must come from
within. The first step, is granting equality to woman.
That is some vestige of the dark Ages and has nothing to
do with the West at all. Basically, until these people
take responsibility for themselves, and stop blaming it
all on someone else, they will remain in stagnation.
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Nidhgrin
Honorable
Famous Hero
baking cookies from stardust
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posted March 08, 2006 11:57 PM |
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I could try and defend the opposite point of view, but would fail dramatically  I'm not a muslim, as a matter of fact I'm not even religious. I believe in people.
I'm only trying to say that even if we disagree or disapprove of their point of view, that doesn't mean we can just ignore it. Personally I'm interested in finding out where they come from and what makes them think this way.
Maybe you're right and women rights might change the situation for the best. Education, but with that I mean proper education and not indoctrination, might play a role too but they have a long way to go still. And I'm not convinced imposing a different way of life on them will work, it's something which must grow from the inside - with outside aid perhaps.
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Shiva
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted March 09, 2006 12:13 AM |
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Quote:
I
Maybe you're right and women rights might change the situation for the best. Education, but with that I mean proper education and not indoctrination, might play a role too but they have a long way to go still. And I'm not convinced imposing a different way of life on them will work, it's something which must grow from the inside - with outside aid perhaps.
Yes, I agree with that..imposing doesn't work, but "when
in Rome"...there is a possibility that a multi-cultural
society can work. Canada is trying that out. In otherwords, one's traditions can be upheld, but there has
to be a recognition of the ethos of the country as well if
you are an immigrant. No western country can afford to
bring the Taliban into their land, and have those values
imposed on the social fabric.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted March 20, 2006 11:20 PM |
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I found a quite interesting "interview" on arabian tv Al-Djazzira refering to muslims and other religions.
You can watch it here
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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terje_the_ma...
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Disciple of Herodotus
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posted March 30, 2006 12:57 AM |
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Ugh, reviving dead threads is never fun, but I've been busy for a while...
Quote:
They are living in Europe, yet ultimately would like to influence European culture to conform to their fundamental values.
Is this wrong? That one would wish others to be like oneself?
I thought this was the basis of politics as they work today; that different groups has different agendas, and that they try to make others see the world the way they do it themselves?
Why should Danish Muslims, or anyone else, for that matter, be excluded from this right? Anyone has a right to their opinions, and they also have the right to try and change society into something more fitting to them. Of course, this does not mean that they have the right to actually suceed, or force a majority into accepting something they don't want to accept...
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If history had turned another way, Europe could have been conquered by the Muslims. It was that close.
If history had turned another way, the Middle East could be ruled by Christians. What's your point?
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These civilizations have been at it off and on for 1,000's of years. To say the West is to blame for the stagnation of some Islamic nations is wrong.
So they've been at each others' throats for milennia, but the fact that one of them had the other by the balls for at least a century is irrelevant for today's situation? Intriguing.
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Nor can the West change these countries for the better. Change must come from within.
I agree. But, what "we" can do, is to support the people whose opinions are closest to "ours", economically and morally. However, if this is to succeed, we musn't alienate them from "our" system...
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Basically, until these people take responsibility for themselves, and stop blaming it all on someone else, they will remain in stagnation.
I agree, and obviously you have a point, but I'd also like to bring in a nuance:
If it is true that other people have to take some of the blame for the Muslim world's "backwardness", aren't these other people then obliged to help make right what they screwed up?
(Oh, and I fear I may have phrased myself a little prematurely and extremely earlier in this thread. That long rant I wrote about a month ago, should probebly not be taken soo seriously. Obviously, I cannot exclude the option that flaws like this have sneaked into this post as well.  )
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"Sometimes I think everyone's just pretending to be brave, and none of us really are. Maybe pretending to be brave is how you get brave, I don't know."
- Grenn, A Storm of Swords.
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