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| Thread: Best Creature Level... |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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rage
Adventuring Hero
Slipping Through the Trees
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posted September 11, 2001 02:02 AM |
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Camelnor
You say that Fiur is exactly like Crag Hack except for specials. I don't know if you like using low levels or what but specials are the things that I most tend to think about when choosing starting heroes or recruiting.
lvl 20 Crag Hack will destroy lvl 20 Fiur in most cases
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L8r
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Coldfyrius
Promising
Famous Hero
Vice-God for Marketing
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posted September 13, 2001 03:34 AM |
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Hooh boy, I took some flak for that.
Yes, I said that Conflux isn't a real town. 3DO took some neutrals, slapped on some creatures that didn;t make the cut for Rampart, and called it a town. The prices for Conflux are way off. The elementals are way too expensive, especially the Earth Elemental, and the Pixie, Firebird, Phoenix, and Magic elemental are vastly underpriced. The 2/week growth of Firebirds is insane. The heroes were also hastily assembled. The Planeswalkers have a total of 4 specialties between 8 heroes. A lot of the Elementalists have similar specialties, with 2 getting +350 gold per turn, and a total of four different asignments of secondary skills. Overall I say that this twon wasn't made with much of a degree of care, and little or no effort was made to balance it. I never play this town, and when I play against myself (I can't play on the Zone much and the AI is annoyingly stupid) with random towns I restart if I get a Flux.
And I didn't use level 7 creatures because in games against myself the top level is usually 6 unitl it's so late in the game it doesn't matter.
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"All the punks are gonna scream, 'yippee!'/ 'Cuz it's the thing that only eats hippies."
-The Dead Milkmen
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wizardboy
Known Hero
Look ma!..a glowing ball...
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posted September 23, 2001 04:36 AM |
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the back bone and the strongest...
hello hello hello...
IMO the back bone of any army should be the second levels... u probably think i am crazy already but hear me out...for most of the times when i play against the comp i play 200% difficulty and i usually rely on my level two's to survive for the first couple of weeks cuz building the third lvl dwelling seem to cost so much to build...
for most games i almost always find meself with lvl creatures in my army and some of these level 2's are the only shooters in their castle as well(inferno and fortress) another thing that is good about lvl 2's are that the comp ai tend to elimiante these creatures first(especially shooters) thus saving an extra turn to save ur higher critters for example...expecially lvl 6 onwards...
if ya talking about power then i must say lvl 6...the naga tank says it all!!  i mean what more could u ask...constant damage..no retaliation and a pretty decent amount of health..from the top of me head...and the dread knights...fit enougth to be called a lvl 7...and there is the wyvern...u can hired these bloody critters in what..the 2(or is it the third??) turn?? These are some of the fine examples of what lvl 6's has to offer in any army and by all mean i doubt that anyone plays without at least one unit of lvl 6's in their army....
ok there is of course the down side ...although they do not popluate as much as the lower lvl critters but they are the next best thing of getting a lvl 7's, not to say that their power and their hp's makes up for their lestness(is that even a word...but it sounds so cool!!)
in my conclusion i think that the second and the sixth lvls are the key to any army and it depends on certain situation...but in most i have to say the sixth...
but then again i m all ears and therefore look forward to any critcisism(is this how u spell it??)
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 Where do u go when you have gone too far?
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Dajek
Known Hero
Psychedelic Knight
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posted September 23, 2001 11:22 AM |
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LEVEL 7
They have most endurance, power etc. What higher level, that better creature.
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LordTitan
Famous Hero
Hit Dice: 76d12+608 HP
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posted September 23, 2001 09:54 PM |
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Fith...
I think its fith... for the Fortress at least because of ye old MIGHTY GORGONS!
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Spaek the Titan
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Obsidian
Tavern Dweller
Mind Invader
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posted September 24, 2001 01:02 AM |
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The backbone in any town in my opinion are level 5-6 creatures ... excepting first 2 weeks.. when you do your best with what you got... I say this because level 7 creatures are hard to get and if you already have large numbers of level 7 creatures it means that your army is probably already full of all level creatures so you don't really need to use a specific creature in combat...but you can give up on level 7 creatures and use the money and resorses to build up a larger number of 4-5-6 level creatures ... at least that's my opinion...
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The time is near
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EnergyElemen...
Hired Hero
The Blue snow
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posted August 11, 2002 04:14 AM |
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Stupid question. Of course imps are the best.
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Imps DESTROY
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Evil_Warrior
Famous Hero
Duke of Demon
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posted January 09, 2006 07:52 AM |
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Level 5
many extreme creatures in attack force like Mighty Gorgon, Minotaur King, Power Liches and Thunderbird.
great defense like Dendroid Soldier
or great speed and spellcasting ability like Master Genie
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greek_god_su...
Famous Hero
Bringer Of Light
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posted January 09, 2006 05:28 PM |
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Quote:
...and spellcasting ability like Master Genie
Yeah, this is so cool, especially bless on nagas!
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After all, marriage and murder are not too different - one ends your life and the other is a crime
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Russ
Promising
Supreme Hero
blah, blah, blah
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posted January 09, 2006 06:23 PM |
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Quote:
Stupid question. Of course imps are the best.
I second that. Imps are the backbone of your army until you find the peasant dwell.
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fishjie
Adventuring Hero
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posted January 10, 2006 02:39 AM |
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ok disclaimer, i only play single player, but these units usually form the core of my armies since they have great HP/attack/defense/special ability, good growth rates, that allows their stacks to grow large in number and survive epic battles. Yes, these are all meelee walkers. I'm assuming we're talking about fights against enemy heros, and not mobs.
I find that flying units, especially when besieging a castle, are cut off from support. They are the first to engage the enemy stacks, often before your other stacks can reach them (because the wall hasn't been knocked down yet), and get pounded on by the entire defending army, and tend to take heavy losses over time. Also, archers generally dont have very good hp and get mowed down. They are often the target of enemy arrow towers, though not as much as they were in heroes 2.
Finally, level 7s are quite expensive, have slow growth rate, so unelss you are rich and can flag many dwellings, they dont come into play that often. plus you need some good attack and def to make sure your lvl 7 stack doesn't take losses.
So I dont think there is any one level that is best, however, I feel the best TYPE of unit are meelee units.
don't hate on my single player l33tness:
- Crusaders (double attack)
- Ogre magis
- Minotaur kings
- Naga queens (non retal is too good and reduces losses in combat)
- Mighty Gorgons (their special ability owns lvl 7s so badly)
- Dendroid soldiers (their entangle really makes a huge difference defending in sieges, protecting your weaker units)
- Pit lords
- Skeletons (yeah they're crappy but skel transformer, necro amp, and necromancy gives you billions of em, and all of a sudden they're not so crappy) - a close second would be vampire lords with their broken special ability.
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ok anyway are you guys serious about genies? again I only played single player, but to me they were always a crappy ass unit. Their hp are simply too low to be able to survive any encounter (i'm talking about fights with other heros, not against random mobs), and they don't deal nearly enough damage. Plus since efreets hate them, they get slaughtered by em. They're not worth the money and I avoid purchasing them altogether. If you could *choose* what spell they could cast, they might be marginally useful, but you can't, its random iirc. So whats the point?
Oh and thunder birds are good, but dont form the army backbone, for the reason i mentioned previously, flying units tend to die in battles. Since they are the stronghold's only flier, if you choose to fly them over the wall in order to engage the enemy first in a siege, they will get pounded on. You could wait a few turns until the walls have been knocked down, but they still tend to be cut off from support.
and for heroes 2 its the same deal, the lower level meelee units with higher growth rate tend to be the only guys who survive after a massive fight:
master swordsmen, ogre lords, master dwarves, skeletons (and vampire lords), minotaur kings (and hydras), titans (the ranged exception lol)
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Veteranewbie
Adventuring Hero
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posted January 10, 2006 07:17 AM |
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Just depends on town
For myself I always have units from each town that I will certainly recruit, especially on a tight budget, the units that you take priority to recruit (for your main hero) can be said to be your backbone
The brackets below menas either upgraded or not is fine
Castle: Marksman + Crusaders + Knights (Champions) + Angels(AA)
Rampart: Grand Elves + Pegasus + Dragons (Green Gold)
Tower: Mage(AM) + Genie(Master) + Naga(Queen) + Titans
Necro: Vampire Lords + Lich (Power) + Black Knights(Dread)
Inferno: Cereberus + Efreet (Sultan) + Devils (AD)
Dungeon: Harpies Hags + Beholders (EE) + Medusa (Queen) + Minotaur (King) + Dragons (Red or Black)
Fortress: Mighty Gorgons + Dragonflies + Lizardman
Stronghold: Wolf Raiders + Ogres (Mage) + Rocs (Thunderbird) + Behemoth (Ancient)
Conflux: Strom Element + Ice Element + Psychic Element (Magic) + Firebirds (Phoenix)
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted January 10, 2006 04:31 PM |
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Quote:
...I find that flying units, especially when besieging a castle, are cut off from support. They are the first to engage the enemy stacks, often before your other stacks can reach them ......Also, archers generally dont have very good hp and get mowed down. They are often the target of enemy arrow towers, though not as much as they were in heroes 2.
You prolly forget one important thing here....and that is the whole way until u come to the siege. With good flyers and shooters, u will survive many battles with much lesser losses, and so u have much more army in endfight...
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Finally, level 7s are quite expensive, have slow growth rate, so unelss you are rich and can flag many dwellings, they dont come into play that often. plus you need some good attack and def to make sure your lvl 7 stack doesn't take losses.
Hmmm..interesting statement. You think there is any more powerfull stack in Stronghold town (e.g.) than 3 Behemots start of week 2? ...or than 3 Hydras in Fortress? Donīt know what kind of maps u play, but normally, itīs ALL about level 7 troops.
Quote:
ok anyway are you guys serious about genies? again I only played single player, but to me they were always a crappy ass unit. Their hp are simply too low to be able to survive any encounter (i'm talking about fights with other heros, not against random mobs), and they don't deal nearly enough damage. Plus since efreets hate them, they get slaughtered by em. They're not worth the money and I avoid purchasing them altogether. If you could *choose* what spell they could cast, they might be marginally useful, but you can't, its random iirc. So whats the point?
Try the following:
Start of week 2, run around with about 130-150 mastergremlins and 6 single mastergenies. You will wonder how much damage these gremlins will cause after the genies casted bless, prayer, precision, frenzy, mirth and so on....throng of dendroids...no problem...
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Oh and thunder birds are good, but dont form the army backbone, for the reason i mentioned previously, flying units tend to die in battles. Since they are the stronghold's only flier, if you choose to fly them over the wall in order to engage the enemy first in a siege, they will get pounded on. You could wait a few turns until the walls have been knocked down, but they still tend to be cut off from support.
As quoted above, the game has more parts than only the endfight....and the endfight doesnīt happen in a siege all the time anyway....
Quote:
master swordsmen, ogre lords, master dwarves, skeletons (and vampire lords), minotaur kings (and hydras), titans (the ranged exception lol)
Not sure your master dwarves would survive more than 2 rounds vs Black Dragons though....
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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fishjie
Adventuring Hero
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posted January 11, 2006 02:47 AM |
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Quote:
Hmmm..interesting statement. You think there is any more powerfull stack in Stronghold town (e.g.) than 3 Behemots start of week 2? ...or than 3 Hydras in Fortress? Donīt know what kind of maps u play, but normally, itīs ALL about level 7 troops.
aren't you disagreeing with what everyone else here has said? i dont think anyone listed level 7 as the best level. that would be the obvious answer, saying level 7 is the best, since it is the highest level. especially if a game lasts for longer than a month.
all i'm saying is, when i first get them (in single player yes), i have a hard time from losing one or two throughout the week (against enemy heros, not against mobs), from things such as spells or being targetted by multiple units, etc. So amassing a stack of say 7 or more (*assuming no dwellings*) actually takes longer than just 3 weeks, and in that time, my stacks of lower level stacks become a lot stronger.
and from the way i play single player, i try to beat a level as fast as possible (to get a good rating), so unless the map is huge, the level 7 stack never becomes the strongest one. and from my understanding of multiplayer, most games dont even last past week 3, so how could you possibly have a dominating stack of them by then, unless you're telling me you never lose a single one.
also how would you get 3 level 7s by the START of week 2? You would need a citadel, castle, a level 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 dwelling. You could at most get 2, if you had a citadel by day 7, but you need at least 8 turns to get 3 level 7s per week. did i miss something here? And the difference between 2 and 3 level 7 units is pretty noticeable imo (especially if upgraded).
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted January 11, 2006 11:30 AM |
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Quote:
aren't you disagreeing with what everyone else here has said? i dont think anyone listed level 7 as the best level.
This doesnīt mean itīs wrong...
Quote:
all i'm saying is, when i first get them (in single player yes), i have a hard time from losing one or two throughout the week (against enemy heros, not against mobs), from things such as spells or being targetted by multiple units, etc. So amassing a stack of say 7 or more (*assuming no dwellings*) actually takes longer than just 3 weeks, and in that time, my stacks of lower level stacks become a lot stronger.
The problem is, most singleplayers have a wrong building order...see more details later..
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and from the way i play single player, i try to beat a level as fast as possible (to get a good rating), so unless the map is huge, the level 7 stack never becomes the strongest one.
See above...
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and from my understanding of multiplayer, most games dont even last past week 3,
Thatīs not completely true...depends on template (if random map). Normaly itīs between week 3 and week 6.
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how could you possibly have a dominating stack of them by then, unless you're telling me you never lose a single one.
Exactly....u rarely lose a level 7 unit till the endfight...if u do, u prolly did something wrong...
Quote:
also how would you get 3 level 7s by the START of week 2? You would need a citadel, castle, a level 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 dwelling. You could at most get 2, if you had a citadel by day 7, but you need at least 8 turns to get 3 level 7s per week. did i miss something here?
Yes u did. You really think all towns need dwelling level 1-6 prebuilt to be able to build dwelling level 7?
In stronghold town, u can build behemots day 3, coz all u need is goblins, wolves and rocs built. So level 7 +castle is no problem.
In Castle, u donīt need archers, griffins nor cavaliers prebuilt to build portal of glory...
In fortress u donīt need gorgons..
And so on...
This is what i said above about wrong building order in singleplayer.
Check that out again....and also keep in mind, if u spend 3000 gold to buy 1 angel (or 2200 for 1 Hydra) and take a look what creatures u can beat without any losses, u will see, how much stronger 1 level 7 unit is in comparison to your whole week 1 army.
Easiest example would be a full crypt. With 1 angel, u could do 10 (e.g.) full crypts on 1 turn (by passing this angel to other heroes...) without any losses and would earn 50.000 gold (theoretically). How many full crypts can u do with your army?...and how much losses would u have to suffer?
You really should try this first before u disagree with me..
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Russ
Promising
Supreme Hero
blah, blah, blah
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posted January 11, 2006 05:58 PM |
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Edited by Russ on 11 Jan 2006
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Quote:
aren't you disagreeing with what everyone else here has said? i dont think anyone listed level 7 as the best level. that would be the obvious answer, saying level 7 is the best, since it is the highest level. especially if a game lasts for longer than a month.
Most of the people he is disagreeing with have never played online against a good opponent.
Most online games end on week 3 or 4. But despite that fact, level 7-s are the most important units. The only exceptions to this rule are necropolis and inferno because ghosts suck and because demons and skeletons can be farmed. Maybe level 7-s are also slightly less important for the castles that can not build level 7 on week 1, but only on the maps that end on week 3.
Most people who are any good at this game don't take this whole discussion seriously (see the imp comment, for example.) Angelito is the only vet who decided to spend some time to try to straighten things out, this is why it may look like he is disagreeing with "everyone".
Ogres and Dwarves are the best units? LOL!!! Damn! WTF was I thinking this whole time building dragons, grand elves, beths and birds??? Ogres and Dwarves are the way to go!!!
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fishjie
Adventuring Hero
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posted January 12, 2006 04:37 AM |
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oh you are right, i forget that lvl 7s dont require you to have built all the dwellings. OOPS. ok i will try it out.
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Ogres and Dwarves are the best units? LOL!!! Damn! WTF was I thinking this whole time building dragons, grand elves, beths and birds??? Ogres and Dwarves are the way to go!!!
yeah man they OWN. hope your game improves dramatically now
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Xarfax111
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
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posted January 12, 2006 08:38 AM |
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I can see a chor of Zombies singing:
"Shake the desease" (by Depeche Mode)
...btw with Ufretin and 100% Resistance Dwarfes get unstoppable. So Battle dwarfes are the best unit of the whole game.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted January 12, 2006 11:19 AM |
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Quote:
I can see a chor of Zombies singing:
"Shake the desease" (by Depeche Mode)
Hahaha....nice one....
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Satanspawn
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 16, 2006 08:00 PM |
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I think i'll have to jump in here and say that 5th level units can get outrageous. Take for example master genies? cast Counterstrike on almost 50 titans. Sound good enough? or how about those mighty gorgons? They'll get rid of gold dragons as though they were nothing with their stare. But, as with all arguments on what are the "best", i say that there can be no definitive answer to that. Mainly because this game is made to have all aspects and resources utilized. Different creatures can do different things to define the outcome of the game. Either way, when you've reached the end of a scenario, you'll be glad you had that last gremlin and your last mage in the tower was able to finish your foe and save your butt.(unrealistic, but, hey, im trying to prove a point )
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I can't believe its not butter... 
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