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| Thread: A little bit of H4 spice in creature recruitment | |
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polaris
Promising
Known Hero
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posted February 16, 2006 06:10 AM |
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A little bit of H4 spice in creature recruitment
This idea initially came to me when I noticed that the horde buildings in H5 provide more benefits than just increasing creature production. For instance, the Genie Horde also provides the gold to recruit those extra Djinns. Horde buildings seem a lot more interesting now- its finally a building I want rather than a building I might get if I plan to rely on that trooper.
Which raised the question: Why can't I build a horde building for anything? I can build an upgrade for anything, why not a horde? I see you saying: hordes and upgrades for everything, that ain't inspired by H4... maybe something with a little bit lower number was the inspiration!
Aha, but that is not my suggestion. What if you could only build a limited number of horde buildings (but there is a horde building for each level)- similar to how you had to make decisions on which units to recruit in H4. Furthermore, why can't the same concept be applied to upgrades? For instance, a town could get any 2 horde buildings (let's say there's no horde building at lv7 since it would have to double production to have any effect) and any 4 creature upgrades. After that, you can't build any more horde buildings or upgrade creature buildings in that city. Now there's a little bit of that H4 decision making involved!
But perhaps this could get even more complex by linking the allowable horde/upgrades to your combined City Hall level and Fort level. Each level of City Hall would allow you to get 1 more upgrade as would each level of Fort. Each level of Fort would also allow you to get another horde building. But Heroes 5 has Town Level- maybe that would work even better...
Well I've opened up the topic for discussion, any other ideas for improvements to the idea?
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Gnoll_Mage
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted February 16, 2006 08:49 PM |
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Nice to an extent. I'm not overly keen on having to choose which upgrade to do, but the `choose which hoarde building` is okay - although I suspect I would choose the same combination each time (not that this is a problem I guess - but it verges on making the original idea a little pointless...)
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polaris
Promising
Known Hero
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posted February 16, 2006 11:44 PM |
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It's possible you would always want the same hordes- it was certainly the case in H4 that some creature levels there was only one obvious choice (eg. Cyclopses vs. Ogre Magi). On the other hand, I think it would work well to allow you to focus on a rush versus tech (one of many possible metrics you could make your decision on). The Academy might horde gremlins and golems since they have a good synergy early on, but if you expect to be playing for several months you might horde Rakshasas and Magi instead.
Furthermore, not all of the benefits have to be +50% troops, +some gold. Creatures that you probably wouldn't want to build a horde for (like demons) could have a really good side benefit on their horde building like +1 Permanent Attack Power to visiting heroes. Others that are really good (like gremlins) could have no side effect or less growth bonus. Basically the race specific buildings could all be rolled into horde buildings.
However, it is certainly possible that each faction would have a "best" build. I think different map sizes would probably change the "best" build as would resource scarcity, opponent faction(s), and a few other factors, thus it would not always be obvious which build was the best. It is still possible, but even if it is a problem I think it is worth the effort.
:editing:
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lumpor
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 09, 2009 10:44 AM |
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Only allowed to upgrade some is a nice idea indeed. However, I tihnk it would be too complicated with both horde buildings and upgrades.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted July 09, 2009 01:23 PM |
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Edited by MattII at 01:15, 31 Jul 2009.
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Not too sure about this, so I'll put forward my own idea:
Somewhat mixing Hoards and Upgrades, an upgraded dwelling can produce more base creatures than upgraded ones. eg.
A dwelling has 100 'effort points' at base level, allowing it to produce 10 base creatures at 10 'effort points' each. Upgrade the dwelling and it now has 130 'effort points', allowing to now produce 13 base creatures, but because upgraded creatures cost 13 'effort points' it can only produce 10 of them. You can't dodge by producing base and upgrading, because upgrading costs 3 'effort points'. This allows a player the alternative of a 'big army' or a 'good army'.
I'll admit that there are probably more than a few problems to iron out, but as a concept, how does it look?
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lumpor
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 09, 2009 02:01 PM |
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I tihnk people would choose less upgrades rather than more downgrades, simply because upgrades are cooler
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted July 09, 2009 10:34 PM |
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Well it depends what level a creature is, and how close is the nearest hill-fort, because if a hill-fort is only 30 spaces away, you can be almost guaranteed that the savvy player will chose the more numerous base creatures (up to tiers 3-4 at least) and upgrade them later, provided they have the money.
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Nirual
Famous Hero
Imbued Ballista
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posted July 10, 2009 04:53 PM |
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Quote:
This idea initially came to me when I noticed that the horde buildings in H5 provide more benefits than just increasing creature production. For instance, the Genie Horde also provides the gold to recruit those extra Djinns.
That's actually the only horde building with any additional benefit.
The concept of being able to choose which troops to boost would kinda ruin Training for Haven, as most players will probably choose the higher tiers.
Horde buildings currently seem to be mainly balanced about units that need those extra numbers, too. A more versatile system would cause new issues with balance.
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In ur base killing ur doods... and raising them as undeads.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted July 11, 2009 01:03 AM |
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Edited by MattII at 01:05, 11 Jul 2009.
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Quote:
The concept of being able to choose which troops to boost would kinda ruin Training for Haven, as most players will probably choose the higher tiers.
Training isn't the most logical of skills anyway, I mean, come on, training a Peasant into a Cavalier, but not allowing a Warlock to train a Scout into a Dark Raider? my view on that sort of thing is that most or all towns should get it, but it should be limited to say 50% of the tier's base production.
This of course would leave Haven without a faction skill, but maybe they could get one that allows a hero to cast certain blessing spells on his army at the beginning of combat.
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zamfir
Promising
Supreme Hero
Allez allez allez
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posted July 11, 2009 05:16 PM |
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Training is a fine racial skill for Haven. I would not see a Warlock or a Demon Lord training his weaker units (the Warlock spends his time researching magic, and a Demonlord would sacrifice the lesser troops). Concentrating your energy to train your peasants into archers is something only a Knight would do.
And to return to the horde thingie.
IMO the idea is bad. I always categorize them as special, town-depending structures up to a certain extent.
Each town's blacksmith produces it's own cheap War Machine (and each town has a blacksmith). In the same fashion, each town has it's very own hordes (even tough each town has hordes). There's no need to change this, it would be an addition of questionable quality. It would do no good to the game.
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5 Times TV
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stankelbenet
Adventuring Hero
bringer of nostalgia & darknes
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posted July 13, 2009 01:12 PM |
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An interesting idea indeed. Choosing which troops you want to horde.
My first opinion was: "Since there are troops that never really get used like the zombie from HOMM5, it would probably be stupid not to mass the fast troops like the blood maiden. And who wouldn't mass the angels?" In HOMM5 I feel Nival was balancing factions more than balancing units(IMO, IMO, IMO! ). Of course this has also been done in the prequels but not as much. If this idea should work, the units should get balanced more.
I don't care if this concept ruins training. Why should HOMM6 stick to the same ol' racial skills? I guess they will make new ones with or without selectable horde buildings.
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