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| Thread: Oddities on random maps, which are a restart reason ? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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Solmyr77
Hired Hero
noob
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posted April 05, 2006 11:44 PM |
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Oddities on random maps, which are a restart reason ?
I don't really have an online experience, but after only a few games I've noticed, that there occur some rather stupid things on jebus. Old news for you, but that's not the question.
I'd like to see this thread become a list of oddities, this template can produce and if they are a common restart reason. With common I mean, that I'm not willing to talk about the fact, that everything can be a restart reason if both players agree, but about the average opionion on that matter.
Let me start this w/o giving an answer to the restart question:
1. only one reachable(thanks to angelito) additional town - restart: ?
2. important precious mine(like crystal/stronghold) blocked by the zone block - restart: ?
3. both player zones connected and of same type(given, that one player doesn't notice that in time and takes sth worthy) - restart: ?
4. one or both ways of the road blocked by X giving you for example only a crypt, an ore pit and 3 chests before fighting X - restart: ?
5. starting town itself blocked - restart: I think so 
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rychenroller
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted April 05, 2006 11:48 PM |
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Jebus is such a crappy temp, the only reason I would give for a restart is the last point...and only if x was say, a hive or utopia guard, ie too big to fight for a week
Everything is in abundance on jebus, so much so that mines, extra towns etc are barely important. No restarts
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Myctteakyshd
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted April 05, 2006 11:52 PM |
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1. never happens. There could only be 1 road from your town to next town and treasure area, but no road to 3rd, but in that case, your 3rd town has an OWN road to the treasure zone.
2. Never saw that happen, but there are so many resources laying around, u donīt need any mines on jebus.
3. This sometimes happens and is a restart reason
4. no big deal...u fight from day 1 till the end on jebus...no rest..
5. Restart
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Solmyr77
Hired Hero
noob
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posted April 06, 2006 12:11 AM |
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Thank you so far, for #1 I had a save game which I just reviewed. If there is a 3rd town, it is unreachable via land routes and the shipyard has the zone guard obviously. I'll rephrase it.
How about other oddities ? Or did I encounter every "problem"(for us noobs at least) in only several games ?
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maretti
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted April 06, 2006 12:25 AM |
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3. If the connection is due to a road leading through a mine and into another area there is no reson to restart, just dont walk into the other area.
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Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted April 06, 2006 12:29 AM |
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One hint for u refering to any random templates:
If u see a "dirt" (brown) road from your town instead of a "cobblestone" (grey), u better restart on day 1, coz this is a 90% of a bad or bugged map. Either coz there is a mine placed right between 2 different terrains, therefore the "mountains" are missing there and u could travel into opponents area. Or 1 town is too close too middle area, therefor some connections and guards havenīt been setup correctly.
So if u restart on day1 in "dirt road" case, u save a lot of prolly wasted time.
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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rychenroller
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted April 06, 2006 01:23 AM |
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Quote:
One hint for u refering to any random templates:
If u see a "dirt" (brown) road from your town instead of a "cobblestone" (grey), u better restart on day 1, coz this is a 90% of a bad or bugged map. Either coz there is a mine placed right between 2 different terrains, therefore the "mountains" are missing there and u could travel into opponents area. Or 1 town is too close too middle area, therefor some connections and guards havenīt been setup correctly.
So if u restart on day1 in "dirt road" case, u save a lot of prolly wasted time.
seriously? ive played a million games with dirt roads and never even thought about it
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Zsa
Famous Hero
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posted April 06, 2006 01:48 AM |
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yep, same here, I've played a lot of games on dirt roads and I havan't seen this trend 
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Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted April 06, 2006 10:34 AM |
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After Maretti mentioned it in the other thread, I starting playing around with True Random template.
I quit playing it because at least 4 out of 5 times, my start zone was isolated. Completely surrounded by mountains or whatever, with no route through.
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maretti
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted April 06, 2006 10:38 AM |
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True random should be played on xl, l makes the areas way to small (and might cause bugs) but i have played it many times and never seen the problem you mention so maybe you should try creating some more maps and check them out in the editor, shouldnt take very long.
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Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck
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Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted April 06, 2006 10:59 AM |
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These were isolated. 2 had water. I've noticed true random likes to make water if set to random water.
Map created by the Random Map Generator. Template was True Random, Random seed was 1144122861, size 144, levels 1, humans 1, computers 1, water None, monsters 2, second expansion map, red is human, red town choice is castle
Map created by the Random Map Generator. Template was True Random, Random seed was 1144200466, size 144, levels 1, humans 1, computers 1, water normal, monsters 4, second expansion map, red is human
Map created by the Random Map Generator. Template was True Random, Random seed was 1144146609, size 144, levels 1, humans 1, computers 1, water normal, monsters 3, second expansion map, red is human
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted April 06, 2006 11:07 AM |
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Quote:
seriously? ive played a million games with dirt roads and never even thought about it
Yes, i tested it with about 50 "dirt road" maps. Sometimes it is only a small bug, for example the mentioned "town is too close to next area, therefor u have too many guards and a road crossing (junction area), which should not be present on that template".
Sometimes a bug is hard to recognize. One of the last 2vs2 i had with Frank as ally, he flagged a woodmine and collected a woodpile on the right side of it. This woodpile was some kind of "guard" to the next area (same terrain) and he could pass through. Was a dirt road.
Other time, there was an ore mine placed very close to the terrain of the opponent (same terrain), with only a small terrain obstacle as "natural boarder". After counting all mines, we recognized, this ore mine was refered to both colors, therefor 1 mine was missing. Dirt road.
But as i mentioned, i would call it a 90% chance of a broken map, coz in about 5 or 6 maps of these 50, i couldnīt find any bug.
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Russ
Promising
Supreme Hero
blah, blah, blah
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posted April 06, 2006 04:38 PM |
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Edited by Russ on 6 Apr 2006
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@angelito - I find it hard to belive the mine was missing. Out of all the random maps I've seen, I've NEVER seen a starting area that had less mines or towns than it was set to have. Chances are you've just missed it.
I am not sure about the road types, but I've noticed that jebus is usually buggy when you only see one road leading from your castle. You should be connected to 2 towns and one treasure area, so if you only see one road with no junctions at the end of day 1, chances are - something is bugged. Either your 2-nd or 3-rd town is connected through the treasure area, or something else happens.
Btw, here are a few notes on random templates:
1) You CAN NOT control the mountains and other obstacles on the random template. If there are a lot of areas, you'll have more obstacles separating the areas, but there is NO way to control the obstacles in one area. Jebus is very good in this way because it has very few areas, but this doesn't help much, because the generator can still generate a maze in one of the areas.
2) The more guarded objects your starting area is set to have, the higher are your chances of having your town or something else blocked. (Objects start to become guarded when their value is 1800-2000 with "average" guards.) I would say that anything with the value above 3000-4000 can be problematic on day 1 and thus require a restart. Anything with the values above 6000-7000 can be tough to beat on week 1 in general. Those kinds of objects can
"block" your other towns, mines, etc on week 1. Jebus is kind of bad in this way, because it has many objects with high value in its starting area.
3) There is NO way to prevent the "mine bugs" (when two areas that shouldn't be connected end up being connected through the mine). The only way to sort of control it is to make less mines on the template. Jebus is kind of bad in this way, because each starting area has 14 mines.
Edit: for #3 there is also "mine density" parameter. I am not exactly sure about what it does, but if higher values bring the mines closer together, there might be less chance they are close enough to your opponent's area to create a "mine bug".
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maretti
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted April 06, 2006 04:43 PM |
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@Binabik - I allways choose no water and I think most temps are designed to have no water. So that is probably the solution.
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Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck
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Xarfax111
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
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posted April 06, 2006 09:43 PM |
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errm...im not quiet up to date..BUT..isnt "True Random" a set of once popular templates, instead of just being one template? So all random maps you get should differ in outcome immensly.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted April 06, 2006 09:43 PM |
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Thatīs "Midnight Mix".
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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FriendOfGunnar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
able to speed up time
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posted April 06, 2006 11:00 PM |
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Here's a good reason for a restart: I started out with a level 30 barbarian. Secondary skills were all maxed with mostly good stuff. Opponent started out with level 1. The map was "True Random"
Question: how often does this happen? And if this is a bug does anybody know a way to fix it? (or is this what is meant by "true random"?)
btw here's the describer for "true random":Not rich in resources and at the start will be fairly hard.
However there is a possibility to face some really wild things later on.
Template is designed for players who love balanced random games with an element of true random within.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted April 06, 2006 11:28 PM |
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Thatīs not (really) a bug.
This happens on very rich templates or templates with areas filled with very high leveled stuff.
Your starting hero is nothing else but a "prison" hero for the comp. Sometimes, instead of putting this (level 5, level 10, level 20 or level 30) hero in a prison, he places him in your town.
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Solmyr77
Hired Hero
noob
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posted April 12, 2006 04:21 AM |
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I hope someone reads this as I don't want to create an own thread for a simple question.
Which random template would you suggest for new players ?
I've reached the point, where I can't see those heavily imbalanced starting areas of jebus anymore but I don't want sth way harder to play(like clearing your area in 2 weeks and then having to fight a jebus t-zone block).
I think of playing one of the following: Balance, Blockbuster, Extreme I&II, Panic or Mid Mix(which temps does this include ?). I've read the reviews on them but I'm lacking the time to test them all out 10+ times each.
The temp I'm looking for would be like this:
-closed with t-area
-1 or no 2nd town of own alignement(fixed !), rest necro
-no big things in starting area(lvl6/7 dwells, topes, relics etc)
These points basically cover what I don't like about jebus.
To stay somehow ontopic: How about restarts on those temps ? Are they needed more often because the temps are not that rich ?
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted April 12, 2006 01:59 PM |
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Quote:
The temp I'm looking for would be like this:
-closed with t-area
-1 or no 2nd town of own alignement(fixed !), rest necro
-no big things in starting area(lvl6/7 dwells, topes, relics etc)
These points basically cover what I don't like about jebus...
This description fits quite well to my template "Angelitos Fiesta".
Can be played 1on1 or 2vs2.
L or XL design, no under.
Every player has 2 areas of similar size. Starting area has 1 town, 1 wood, 1 ore and 2 goldmines. Second area has 1 random town (no fort), and 1 of all mines but gold.
Second area has always dirt terrain.
In starting area, big treasures ar banned (relics, utopias, level6 or level7 dwells), also pan boxes wonīt give that great rewards (only 5k exp.points, 5k gold, level1-2 spells, or small amount of low level units are possible).
2nd area could have level 6 dwells (refered to 2nd town).
You will find many special buildings (imp caches, stores, banks etc..) and some conservatories aswell.
You will have 2 roads from starting town, 1 towards 2nd area, the other towards treasure zone (always desert).
T-Zone has big treasures as usual.
In a 2vs2, the desert is splitted and there will be a tough guard as boarder (lots level 7), so red and tan will meet in 1 desert, while blue and green meet in the other.
Guards from 1st to 2nd zone are quite tough (expect to break start week 2). Guards from 1st to treasure zone have about the same value as on jebus. But for the matter of fact u lack in big arties or big stats in general, break to t-zone will be even more difficult.
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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