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| Thread: Neutral Creatures.. |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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LordRiton
Known Hero
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posted April 16, 2006 07:52 PM |
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And btw, i really doubt the 25% from each deathknight will add, like it did for the mighty gorgons, that would REALLY make them to powerfull.
In H3 each Mighty gorgon had 10% chances to kill one creature of the stack it attacked, on top of the normal damage it did. So 10 Mighty gorgons had an averadge of 100% chance to kill one creature. Made them really good vs lvl 7 creatures.
I can't imagine 4 deathknights having a 100% chance on killing half of a stack 
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Sorry for my miserable english, i'm french.
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Hrushov17
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 16, 2006 07:57 PM |
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I doubt that the percentange will avg like that  lol it'd kind of overpower them and I've had like 100 of mighty gorngons not use their death blow so I think teh percentage does not depend on the number 
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Nebuka
Promising
Supreme Hero
Save me Jebus!
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posted April 16, 2006 07:59 PM |
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25% chance to kill any god damn number of creatures is insanely powerful. Much more than gorgons, much more than azures from h3.
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Nebuka
Promising
Supreme Hero
Save me Jebus!
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posted April 16, 2006 08:02 PM |
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Quote:
In multiplayer, I'm afraid that if a hero gets ahold of the Death Knights, their enemies are as good as finished. It really is too powerful as it stands now. 25% is too much chance.
It should be zero actually.
Just imagine some campaigns, or those big ass single player maps from h3 where we used to fight legions of critters. And now having one single unit that could halve them, ugh. Silly, stupid idea from Nival.
But yet, I hope Hydra got (found?) wrong information.
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LordRiton
Known Hero
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posted April 16, 2006 08:05 PM |
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@rushov17,
The AVERADGE percentage of deathstar (their special attack) of the mighty gorgon stack does indeed depend on their numbers.
In fact, if you have 10 mighty gorgons, and hit another stack with them, the computer will have 10% chances for each mighty gorgon from your stack, for the deathstar to fire. So yes, the averadge % number depends on their number. But having an averadge of 100% in this case does not absolutly mean you will kill 1 opponent. It can kill from 0 to 10 in this exemple. 0 if you are unlucky, and 10 if you are EXTREMELY lucky
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Sorry for my miserable english, i'm french.
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LordRiton
Known Hero
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posted April 16, 2006 08:13 PM |
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For sure, if someone has a legion of deathknights, this means probably the victory for him (if other has not one too). But i rarely had a legion of anythink in my previous H3 games, beside skeletons maybe. And you can always set up the game for not having these creatures to show on the map i guess, or for making them so they will never join your troops.
Edit: the heck, i seem to not be able to write a post without typos
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Sorry for my miserable english, i'm french.
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Loknar
Adventuring Hero
Missing Links
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posted April 16, 2006 10:49 PM |
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Do I see this right that the Fire Elementals have flame throwers instead of hands? 
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Lich_King
Honorable
Supreme Hero
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posted April 16, 2006 10:55 PM |
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And why should Fire Elementals have hands ? They are just flames and fire, creators can create whatever they want...
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Meph
Adventuring Hero
Rampaging Rampart
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posted April 17, 2006 02:19 AM |
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Imagine you obtain 10 Death Knights. Split them up in 7 groups. Dang, that can hurt.
And I like the Elemental's design, only the Water one seems kinda awkward to me.
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I_HaT3_CT
Adventuring Hero
XJapan Fan (Rusty Nails)
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posted April 17, 2006 12:27 PM |
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I think the real thing is that the abiliy of slaying half of the troops overrides the damage. Even if the death knight[eg. legions] deals 1million damage, the skill will still overrides the damage only making the creature's amount divide by 2, and not dealing the exact damage to it imo. So if you have lots of death knights just split them.
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panduwana
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 17, 2006 04:34 PM |
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Quote:
I can't imagine 4 deathknights having a 100% chance on killing half of a stack
then they will never destroy any stack ...
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Hrushov17
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 17, 2006 05:44 PM |
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if they are lucky then they will destroy a half or like 3/4 of it , but 10 of them is pretty easy to kill
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I_HaT3_CT
Adventuring Hero
XJapan Fan (Rusty Nails)
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posted April 18, 2006 05:43 AM |
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This is making me confused ??-.-?? So does their number increase chance or the power to decrease the amount of stack.
Eg. More number = More % to kill half a stack OR
More number = 25% chance to kill more than half a stack. Like 3/4??
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Hrushov17
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 18, 2006 05:44 AM |
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by 3/4 I meant taht they'll strike u twice and kill half of ur strike and tehn half of the half lol but I think that the more number of them the more % they can kill half of stack...or the number has nothing to do with teh % at all...I'm not sure how it is percisely
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LordRiton
Known Hero
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posted April 18, 2006 10:41 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
I can't imagine 4 deathknights having a 100% chance on killing half of a stack
then they will never destroy any stack ...
Their special strike that can kill half of a stack is an addition to their normal damage they do like any stack. So yes they can
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sfidanza
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted April 18, 2006 02:49 PM |
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I guess (and it is only a guess, based on current infos), that the 25% to destroy half a stack will not depend on numbers of death knights.
That was the way Genies worked in HOMM2. And as many already stated, it is powerful enough (at least...).
Regarding the Mighty Gorgons's Death Stare, please, be careful with your maths. A stack of 10 Mighty Gorgons has 65% chance of killing at least one creature (not 100%!!!). These 65% are divided into:
* 38.7% chance of killing exactly one creature,
* 19.4% chance of killing exactly 2.
* 5.7% chance of killing exactly 3.
* 1.1% chance of killing exactly 4.
* 0.15% chance of killing exactly 5.
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* 0.00000001% of killing exactly 10 creatures.
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LordRiton
Known Hero
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posted April 19, 2006 11:49 AM |
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Quote:
Regarding the Mighty Gorgons's Death Stare, please, be careful with your maths. A stack of 10 Mighty Gorgons has 65% chance of killing at least one creature (not 100%!!!). These 65% are divided into:
* 38.7% chance of killing exactly one creature,
* 19.4% chance of killing exactly 2.
* 5.7% chance of killing exactly 3.
* 1.1% chance of killing exactly 4.
* 0.15% chance of killing exactly 5.
...
* 0.00000001% of killing exactly 10 creatures.
I would like to know from where you get these numbers, cause if i'm not wrong, 1 Mighty gorgon has 10% of chance to kill one creature. and still if i'm not wrong, 10 Mighty gorgons have 10 times 10% of chances to kill 1 mighty gorgon together (each of them individualy has 10% chances to kill 1 creature).
So no need of even use complicated Math, lets just see how many chances 2 mighty gorgons have:
Each of them has still 10% chances to kill 1 creature ok ? so well together that makes an averadge of 20% chances to kill 1 creature (1% chance to kill 2 creatures).
3 MGs have an averadge of 30% chances to kill 1 creature (0.1% chances to kill 3)
..... and so on
10 MGs have an evaradge of 100% chances to kill 1 creature (0.00000001% chances to kill 10)
BUT !! what is important to know, and i said it in my previous post, this is an AVERADGE percentage of chances, these 100% means that on an Endless number of battles, they will kill an averadge of 1 creature with death stare per battle (the 10 MGs together). And that is the number that really counts
Edit: Now that i see your math better, i think you are right too, just you aren't talking about the same AVERADGE chances, but the chances on the "moment", with only one battle. I'm talking about the chances to kill 1 (not "at least" here, just 1) creature on averadge, on an endless battle number
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Sorry for my miserable english, i'm french.
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sfidanza
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted April 20, 2006 12:26 AM |
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Let's try to get this right. : :
First, there's only one "average" chance, that is the probability of the MG killing X creatures. Of course, it is a probability, which means it can or can not happen on a particular combat, but will tend to that value over time. That's how probabilities work. But that's not the discrepancy here.
Now, for the calculation itself:
The starting point point is that 1 MG has 10% chance to kill 1 creature.
That means 90% chance to kill none.
With 2 MG, each has its 10% chance, both are independant. We have 4 cases:
- MG1 kills 1 creature / MG2 kills 1 creature: 0.1*0.1 = 0.01
- MG1 kills 1 creature / MG2 kills none: 0.1*0.9 = 0.09
- MG1 kills none / MG2 kills 1 creature: 0.9*0.1 = 0.09
- MG1 kills none / MG2 kills none: 0.9*0.9 = 0.81
That sums up to:
- No creature killed: 81%
- Exactly one creature killed: 18% (9%+9%)
- Exactly 2 creatures killed: 1%
The flaw in your reasoning is that independant probabilities don't just add up (10%+10%=20%). They should be multiplied, as I just wrote.
On my above post, for 10 MG, the calculation is the same. For example, the chance of no kills is 0.9^10=0.65, meaning 65% 0.9^10=0.348, meaning 34.8% (thanks LordRiton, I pasted the wrong figure...).
The chance of exactly one kill is 0.9^9*0.1*10=0.387, so 38.7%, where the last 10 in the formula counts the fact that any of the 10 MG can do the kill.
And it goes on...
I could go on as well (I like math, does it show ? ), but that may repell potential heroes fan from the forum, and Val would haunt me for it
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LordRiton
Known Hero
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posted April 20, 2006 09:29 AM |
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Edit: some BIG flaw in your math 0.9^10 = 0.348 (so you have 34.8% of chances they will kill no creature, and not 65% )
But the numbers arent the most important, its the principle i tryed to explain.
To make it short, what i tryed to say is that:
Having 10 mighty gorgons, your best guess is that they will kill exactly 1 creature with death stare if they attack.
If they attack a lot of time, (an endless number of times), the averadge number of opponents they will have killed will be 1 per attack. That's what i tryed to say with my "an averadge of 100% chances to kill 1 creature
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sfidanza
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted April 20, 2006 12:08 PM |
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Quote:
Edit: some BIG flaw in your math 0.9^10 = 0.348 (so you have 34.8% of chances they will kill no creature, and not 65% )
Yep, sorry. That was 34.8% chance of No Kill, as you corrected (I admit, I didn't recalculate the formula, I just pasted the -wrong- figure from my previous post). Stupid me .
The rest of chances (65.2% = 100% - 34.8%) thus gives the chance of "at least 1 kill".
Now, what you're talking about is the "expected value" (or "mathematical expectation"). I should have pointed it sooner, sorry. This one is additive, and represents, as it says, the expected number of creatures killed, and is more intuitive than raw probabilities. That's 0.1 for 1 MG. And as you say, that's 1 exactly for 10 MG.
The formula is: E = SUM( n * p(n) )
As an example, for 2 MG:
E = 0*0.81 + 1*0.18 + 2*0.01 = 0.2
That's what you call (with reason) the average number of kills.
In your previous post, you wrote "average chances", which has no meaning, and lead me to explain the probabilities themselves. Now, talking about "average number of kills" makes much more sense, and we can agree on this one. ::
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