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| Thread: Heroes 5 Strategy: Playing Inferno Faction |  This thread is pages long: 1 10 ... 18 19 20 21 22 ... 30 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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ChaosDragon
Famous Hero
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posted July 31, 2008 07:32 PM |
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I still hope for a new patch too.
There are many things to balance, like the imba DV, balancing beetwen alt upg and the original, etc.
But, i fear that Doomforge is right.
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Indeed, but I'm not so sure it works with large units, or everytime at least. Maybe it was an unlucky situation but I got hydras atacking my gates instead of simply moving past, there was an opening first time and after a couple gated imps dies there was one for sure the second, but they kept killing them.
I think, it's because you don't give a way for the hydra to attack your real stack, that's why they attack the blocker, a.k.a your gated stack.
I never experienced that unless i block all the path to my real units.
But, i rarely do that with imps, because hellhound has better spd.
And if you have multiple gated stacks, the hyrdra will usually prioritize them over your real one, the AI is designed to take advantage of creature's abilities more than its survival.
And btw, just bring 1 stack of hell hounds is enough to kill that hydra, one stone obstacle always appear, you can use this as your advantage, no need to use multiple stack, especially if it's imps. Even againts magma dragons, and againts magma dragons, there is a very high chance that more than one big obstacle will appear.
It's like nature or the cosmos itself favour the weaker one to keep the balance of the universe. I mean, 1 stack of hellhounds vs lots of magma dragons, hellhounds are clearly the weaker one, and i'm sure there will be more than one small obstacle at your favour.
It's like what i've said before, sinitar will often get imps as their guard, if the early week is hard for his opponent (i mean the other player).
Same analogy.
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...what exactly do u mean with slow/fast faction ???, cause i'll always take firehounds instead of cerberuses, IMHO i think fire breath is more usefull then +1 damage...
...and if u care to explain why "Spawns all the way" a little bit detailed...
I mean, againts factions that have more slow initiative units, it's better to use fire hound, because you can maximize its three headed attack and fire breath combo.
But againts fast faction, i.e: another inferno, fire hound will usually hit the same number of stacks as cerberi. If you have 50 or lower hounds, the dmg difference beetwen cerberi and firehound is not that high, however if you have very high atk, more than 100 hounds, and battle frenzy, cerberus will do about 20% more dmg than firehounds.
By spawn all the way, i mean, i rarely pick pit lord, unless maybe againts necromancer or fortress.
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kermit
Known Hero
Soul hunter
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posted July 31, 2008 08:03 PM |
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Edited by kermit at 20:07, 31 Jul 2008.
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if hydras are split into 4 stacks you'll need the gates, because your 20-25 hounds won't be able to kill the hydra fast enough, even more so if some hydras are upgraded.
Actually come to think of it, maybe the hydras were unable to reach my real units in 2 turns, then they would've atacked.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted July 31, 2008 08:34 PM |
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the gating trick makes the melee foes easy indeed, and it makes alastor so good too. Let me explain 
Creeping part 1: Find some xp chests and take exp. Find slow walkers, any amount, the bigger the better. Use stacks of 1 familiar. Gate them and keep blocking the critters (works best on big and slow, ie hydras). Kill them with your melee attack. Gain massive XP.
Creeping part 2: It should give you enough exp to get dark (unless you are unlucky, in such case keep trying) and swift mind. Yea baby, own those arcane archers with no loses 
Creeping part 3: Alastor's special, while not spectacular, will disable any caster above certain level. So you can finally kill those pesky archmages/druid elders with no loses. Yeah.
Creeping part 4: Now that your level is sky-high, your army is strong and your dark magic is at expert, you may finally get rid of big fast melee groups and such. Puppet master is your friend. vampirised devils make great tanks.
Voila, perfect creeper. I used it for a few fun games against one of my semi-retired mates, it worked great. If you're really lucky, you will have swift mind and expert dark + master of mind at level 9, which is perfectly possible within first week.
There you go, my latest discovery (I'm pretty much a retired player by now so some of you guys may have use for it )
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ChaosDragon
Famous Hero
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posted August 01, 2008 07:40 AM |
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Well said Doom 
Well, i'm not playing this game as often as in the past days too.
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if hydras are split into 4 stacks you'll need the gates, because your 20-25 hounds won't be able to kill the hydra fast enough, even more so if some hydras are upgraded.
Actually come to think of it, maybe the hydras were unable to reach my real units in 2 turns, then they would've atacked.
I never experienced something like that.
You can take advantage of the obstacle and another hydra.
If you're seriously outnumbered, especially againts 4 stacks of hydra, 2 small obstacles always appear, this is enough for you to win this fight with no loses with the help of the other stacks of hydra ofc, more than 2 obstacles are often appear too. Remember, you can also use the other stack of hydra as obstacle too, and you must use them if you want no loses, relying only on 2 small obstacles will give you loses. And 1 stack of hellhound is enough, if you bring multiple stack, the hydras have higher chance to score loses on you, especially if they're splitted to more than 2 stacks, just use the other stacks of hydra to replace your need for multiple gated stacks if you want more blocker.
However, againts deep hydra, you need enough lv (i mean the demon lord) to outdmg its regeneration.
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mgph
Tavern Dweller
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posted August 23, 2008 02:43 PM |
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spell caster/range shooter
Can someone explain me how to creep with range/spell casters ? I tried so many times (restart again and again if that casualty amount is more than acceptable) but couldn't do the same (not even near) when I choose my favorite Dungeon. The worst is Flame Lord ! then mage, succubus, hunters(I hate them),druids (I hate them too) and pixies.
Ok, I agree that horn demons are USEFUL as meat shields but I don't want to lose them too. Because now their leap ability can help for the final battle for example when you are in trouble with Sylvan (master hunter/AA).
It's still a mystery for me at least since creeps no longer attack gated creatures. Please, can someone lighten me how to creep against spell casters/range shooter without Deleb (ofcoz I know she's the best but choosing again and again make me boring !!!). Oh I also don't want to wait or walk around to get enough creeps ! I want fast creeping  I usually end a map at week 4/5 or as latest at week 8/9.
Thanks in advance
ps.sorry for my English
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ChaosDragon
Famous Hero
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posted August 23, 2008 03:05 PM |
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Without any proper setup, meaning just troops, there is no other way to not lose some of your units.
With ignored gated creature it become easier though, just use several imps or demons split them, gate them. Then just block them, but still give them a path to reach your real, while attacking with your demon lord, mark of damned and hellfire suprisingly super useful here, especially when you fight againts 3 or lower stacks of shooters.
Beware of arcane, his 11 init can ruins your plan sometimes, and also lich and archlich, lich lord is crap, be sure to has some magic againts lich lord, even a low power eldritch arrow or stone spikes help (just force them to use their rise dead).
Againts caster (except archmage), it's like racing againts time. Assuming this is with no proper setup, it's 50:50, yes it's a gamble, unless your demon lord level is very high (20 or more).
However, there are easy setup, dark magic and war machine.
This can be done in 3.0 (AI ignore gated). As for 3.1, no comment, but i'll try some match with inferno in 3.1.
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diegis
Supreme Hero
power of Zamolxis
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posted November 24, 2008 12:18 AM |
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oki, tote, 3.1 deleb versus havez....
what are your advices for final battle....? I will prepare for that, dont I?...
also, Im expecting havez to have huge init arties, the map is battlezone, and i think to be a long game...may be week 6-7.
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dacian falx behind you
-knowledge itself is power-
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted November 24, 2008 12:26 AM |
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I'd probably try to have swift mind, power of speed/tactics, luck/resistance, maybe light magic if possible. Basically give him everything you've got in short notice I've never had that late a game with these two so I can't really advise you whether to go for gating perks or an all out assault.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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diegis
Supreme Hero
power of Zamolxis
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posted November 24, 2008 02:47 PM |
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Quote:
I'd probably try to have swift mind, power of speed/tactics, luck/resistance, maybe light magic if possible. Basically give him everything you've got in short notice I've never had that late a game with these two so I can't really advise you whether to go for gating perks or an all out assault.
Light yes, could be a solution, haste for stallions, imagine that!
Not that sure about luck...
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dacian falx behind you
-knowledge itself is power-
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted November 25, 2008 01:16 PM |
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inferno skills vs academy: logistics, enlightenment, attack, defense, dark. Since you start with Deleb, you kinda have to leave out enlightenment or attack. Swift mind + mass endurance (from defense) then gate/charge.
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diegis
Supreme Hero
power of Zamolxis
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posted November 25, 2008 01:36 PM |
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Edited by diegis at 13:43, 25 Nov 2008.
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inferno skills vs academy: logistics, enlightenment, attack, defense, dark. Since you start with Deleb, you kinda have to leave out enlightenment or attack. Swift mind + mass endurance (from defense) then gate/charge.
Thx samiekl...thats what I thought in the first instance - (Deleb was taken randomly btw) - but now thinking about academy huge init....
I would take sorcery (with distract) may be a good option replacing def...
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dacian falx behind you
-knowledge itself is power-
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted November 25, 2008 02:09 PM |
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Nope, you need defense with mass endurance and evasion.
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diegis
Supreme Hero
power of Zamolxis
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posted November 25, 2008 02:41 PM |
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oki ...ill try that, hopefully i still can
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dacian falx behind you
-knowledge itself is power-
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shardik
Adventuring Hero
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posted December 19, 2008 10:13 PM |
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Edited by shardik at 22:15, 19 Dec 2008.
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I just started playing again, and am currently looking for replays of inferno creeping (not the easy stuff ) and end-battles. Of course, I am more interested in fights the demons actually win.
Do any of you guys have some interesting replays laying around you would be willing to share?
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ebbafan
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted January 02, 2009 04:50 AM |
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playing with inferno i discovered several interesting things...
1) empathy + (mass haste + numerous gated units + high morale) potentially makes inferno the best beneficiary from this skill
2) teleport assault is a great counter for battle griffins vs. succubi
3) stormwind, although hard to get, is very useful against haven and sylvan, and will give inferno units the chance to gate
4) nebiros' special makes him useful against other might factions, particularly if he gets stormwind
5) alastor's swift-minded mass confusion followed by counterspell can work wonders vs. dungeon, particularly if he has empathy(no more cheesy witch counter)
6) against non-dungeon casters, marbas is probably the best. with the armor of the forgotten hero and boots of magical defense and magic resistance, he can achieve 80% magic resistance at 30th lvl!
(100%+ possible if he can get some silver unicorns)
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shardik
Adventuring Hero
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posted January 22, 2009 09:28 AM |
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Edited by shardik at 09:44, 22 Jan 2009.
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Having played around with different inferno strategies/heroes the past couple of weeks, I have a few things to add to this discussion, mainly the creeping part.
There are three very important perks for creeping: Battle Frenzy, (Triple) Balista and Tactics. This is probably not new to most of you guys, but I would like to state that I considere these perks the MOST IMPORTANT of all.
Two heroes fit my game plan well: Deleb and Nebiros.
Deleb starts with a balista, which will save some gold for later use. Additionally she starts with War Machines which means you'll be able to get one of the above mentioned perks right away.
Nebiros starts with Tactics and has easy access to Battle Frenzy. I also like his special better than Delebs. Iron Maiden has been nerfed to near uselesness.
Now, this might be the new part: Do not build Howling Kennels. The hounds do not contribute alot until upgraded, and you wont have sulfur enough to upgrade these while upgrading your succubi. And upgrading your succubi is exactly what you want.
There are two key units for this strategy: Leaper and Succubus Seducer. With Tactics (which is why this skill is important), the leapers will ALWAYS be able to hit an enemy unit on their first turn, if placed at tile number 4 from the top. Against shooters this means you will only have to take the pain for one round. If the shooters are in 2 or 3 stacks, you should have a couple of small vermin stacks to gate-block where needed. Against tough enemies, it is wise to have a stack with a single leaper placed right next to your main leaper stack. This single leaper will be able to suck up the retaliation from a stack before you jump it. Battle Frenzy greatly increases the damage of your leapers. Get it ASAP. If you can get devine strength, your leapers become monters.
Once you get seducers, you will be able to halt the enemy progress (against non shooters/caster of course) and reduce enemy numbers with balista, spells, gated units and your seduced stack, while waiting for the right time to strike with your leapers.
With the power to seduce (starting at week 2) and your far reaching, Battle frenzied leapers, inferno creeping becomes fairly decent. Backed with a powerfull triple balista and gated/splitted stacks to block/eat the retaliation you will be able to take on surprinsingly tough enemies.
Further development of your hero, should (could) include perks/skills like Power of Speed (mass haste -> more leaps/seduce sooner), luck (insane leap damage), logistics/swift gating (makes gating with your leapers/seducers more viable, depending on the situation) and Dark Magic (mainly for low level mass spells, preferably mass slow).
Once you have gotten your seducers, you should focus on getting Capitol. I suggest building Heart of the Pit before start of week 3 if your gold and ressource reserve makes it possible. Being tough, Pit Lords are perfect to form a shield in front of your leapers and seducers, who can be completely surrounded by you own units, and still do their job. Additionally, the pit lords can cast spells while not breaking up your defensive position, making them contribute both as meat shield and damage/curse.
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted January 22, 2009 07:58 PM |
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Actually, you shouldn't upgrade units until after building devils. All inferno needs to creep good is gating and, if the guards are tough (Let's fight), ballista. You need all level 1-4 creatures not upgraded to creep good all non-casters. When mass slow comes creeping becomes a lot easier.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted January 23, 2009 01:11 AM |
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That's a good way to lose horned grunts, I've tried it and it won't help you much. Especially now that they receive triple retaliation.. As for shooters they tend to go first anyway, confusion, ballista and vermin gates are safer.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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shardik
Adventuring Hero
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posted January 23, 2009 08:17 AM |
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I know both of you have a lot more experience than me, and I can thus not just disregard your opinion 
Therefore, I will have to test my strategy on whatever map you use as reference. Would that be "let's fight"?
Using non upgraded inferno creatures? It never worked for me, and I find it difficult to believe it ever will. None of the level 2-4 creatures are worth much without the abilities they gain when upgraded: Leap, No retal/three-headed-attack, Seduce.
Once again I will most humbly request to see a couple of replays displaying inferno creeping.
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted January 23, 2009 08:45 AM |
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Let's fight is very hard and it's almost impossible to play competitive without warmachines. But it's very good for learning to creep effective. Art of war it's an example of map where you can be very competitive without warmachines or dark. You only use units level 1-4 till you build devils. Never use horses in creeping, they are way too valuable in final fight. Also, if you don't get regeneration or vampirism, don;t use devils either. Levels 1-4 are enough because you have high attack, good initiative and numbers. Unfortunately i don't have any creeping replays, but i know i posted some week 1 replays. Don't think the links will still work though.
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