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phoenixreborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
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posted October 31, 2007 04:15 AM |
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Nemira, what difficulty are you playing on?
I remember Battlezone being a tough, large map.
I'd caution against going with four magic skills. At least leave room for some sorcery or attack/archery.
Edit: those comments refer to wizard. Fortress is very tough to build completely. I usually go for magmas as early as possible. Then runes.
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phoenixreborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
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posted October 31, 2007 04:17 AM |
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Quote:
Speaking about mini arties I had tried the battle with Rolf with and without them. Let me tell you they make a world of difference.
But, Elvin, was it significant?
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted October 31, 2007 10:50 AM |
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I say it was. Without the mini arties, his troops decimated mine. Once I added mini arties - especially +init on them - I decimated his.
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Nemira
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 31, 2007 11:09 AM |
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I only play on hard difficulty, since then we both start with same resources and AI develops faster and better seems :>
I noticed that haven requires loads of ore for city development. Almost every building / upgrade needs ore, and some of them in huge ammounts. So I always try to tag the ore mine 1st on day 1. Now when is guarded by sprites or asassins, this means big loses in my archers ranks and if I go only with peasents....
About fortress, I sort of prefer to get rune building in 1st week depending on mine guards, then continue to upgrade it on 2nd week to rank 2 as some of the runes can really make a change in creeping. I tend to build shield guards, spearwielders can hang arround waiting for week 2 for skirmishers, and try to get black bear riders on week 1 which helps a lot more. From here on depends on ammount of crystals I can snatch in 1st week and what type of guards the crystal mine has... if is nasty I go for rune priests and delay thanes / dragons for week 3 or so as loosing too many troops in flaging in 1 mine early can be really bad, as you need money to develop economy and increase growth as well for dwellings :>
Oh and I always try to get all troops in town before next week, as I had the *unpleasent pleasure* to get week of plague on week 2.... after I sacrificed most of my army in week 1 flaging crystal and gems mine <.<
-Nemi
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kermit
Known Hero
Soul hunter
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posted October 31, 2007 12:08 PM |
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On hard AI cheats, it gets extra initial ressources that's why it can afford building stuff faster. I'm not really sure if it has a prefered building order or if it just bulds the highest lvl building it can afford, but I often found cities without even lvl1 mage guild...
Anyway don't be surprised that it gets a better town than you, it's simply an advantage to compensate for it's lack of intelligence 
If the map is large, use several heroes as sdfx said. Personally I like hiring a necro hero early on, because they're the best creepers and they actually build an army in the process 
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Nemira
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 31, 2007 12:22 PM |
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Hehe yes I figured out that he cheats a bit despite what the manual says *the fans made one about lvls of difficulty*, as there is no possible way to develop so fast and get such tier buildings and upgrades when he diden't even flag all mines in week 2! As example on map dragon pass where you can see *I was playing yellow or green in top left corner so I was able to see red player border with some mines / dwellings* other player progress at start, often it gets to week 3 before he even tackles the rare resource / gold mines.
About using different heroes, I usually start with 2, 1 scout / resource grabber and 1 main. Then during week 2 or 3 get a 3rd hero. But as example on dragon pass map where you have a limited ammount of XP within your borders, and breaking through lava dragons or titans early is impossible without good spells, I need lvl 15 asap with main so I can instant travel past them and reach Utopia and other goodies... So not geting xp from chests and clearing my teritory with my main sort of denies me that...
Ah and to not forget! Did they change Titans in 3.0? I tought call lightning is a 1 time / battle ability, yet when I fought the guards in battlezone map, as academy, despite I blocked titans with my rakashas and a phoenix, they ignored them completely and just spammed call lightning on my titans / goblins / mages... That was a heck of annoyment.... and of course I had very big losses despite the nice spells and stuff... I mean 16 titans x 3 doing call lightning on my 9 titans and 300+ goblins = murder. I did try to use MoTW & ressurection but that worked very bad as their HP was droping from rezes and call lightning was killing them imediatly next round... If I wasn't ressing, then they would use it on other units like mages etc...
-Nemi
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted October 31, 2007 12:32 PM |
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Oh no, Titans have (actually always have had) an infinite Lightning Bolt!
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Nirual
Famous Hero
Imbued Ballista
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posted October 31, 2007 12:57 PM |
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unlike Storm Lords. And Call Lightning usually does less damage than the ranged attack, so it's main use is to counter being blocked from shooting normally or when they are out of shots.
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In ur base killing ur doods... and raising them as undeads.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted October 31, 2007 01:04 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 13:05, 31 Oct 2007.
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Quote:
But, Elvin, was it significant?
Yeah, had a very big impact. With my army about as big as Rolf's I had many losses and chances are I'd lose. Suppose you puppet or frenzy some units, fortress works as a team so the others keep dealing damage still. And you also have to keep in mind that he keeps puppeting you himself so it's hard to take the initiative.
Quote:
About fortress, I sort of prefer to get rune building in 1st week depending on mine guards, then continue to upgrade it on 2nd week to rank 2 as some of the runes can really make a change in creeping. I tend to build shield guards, spearwielders can hang arround waiting for week 2 for skirmishers, and try to get black bear riders on week 1 which helps a lot more. From here on depends on ammount of crystals I can snatch in 1st week and what type of guards the crystal mine has... if is nasty I go for rune priests and delay thanes / dragons for week 3 or so as loosing too many troops in flaging in 1 mine early can be really bad, as you need money to develop economy and increase growth as well for dwellings :>
I play very differently. Keep in mind that I'm no fortress expert but I can get around pretty well.
Week 1 i creep with shieldguards and some spearwielders/few bears. The bears I use only in case I need to block some hunters to buy time for the shieldguards. Considering I depend on them battle frenzy and vitality are the skills I initially aim for though light and luck are instant picks of course. I don't build runic shrine week 1 as town lvl is not enough and I prefer to build brawlers, besides you mostly need rune of charge for creeping that you may not get and if you do you desperately need all the wood you can get. Week 1 I may build citadel if fort is prebuilt.
Then week 2 I upgrade the bears and go around killing what the shieldguards could not as lots of earth elementals, horde of steel golems etc. Runepriests get skipped, the obvious priority is dragons and thanes which are not easy to get week 2. The fastest I will get the priests assuming I build them are week 4-5 because the resourses are better spent elsewhere and the money will not be enough to buy all your army anyway. I'd consider getting them early only with a full destructive build which I usually don't pursue. Rune guild 2 will come around week 3 or later according to your money and creeping needs - I just use it to attack someone or powerful tier 6/7 neutrals.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Nemira
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 31, 2007 01:44 PM |
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@Elvin: You follow that order only when playing with Ingvar or with other heroes as well? I was going for the runic circle because I liked Brad, seems I was able to use the runes with almost no resource costs, which I felt was giving me a nice edge. Is numbers of black bear riders in stack having any impact on chance to proc paw strike? Or is only tiles runed to enemy the only factor that influences the paw strike success chances?
-Nemi
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted October 31, 2007 01:57 PM |
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I don't play Ingvar he's kinda broken  Used to like Karli for starting skills but spearwielders do not have the shieldguards' potential and I'm not willing to upgrade them when thane need a whooping 20 crystal
Now I play Helmar so even without battle frenzy he can still boost your damage output. Brand's special is good but I prefer starting with something that will help you and it's either the shrine or the brawlers if you get no extra mercury.
Paw strike is hp based of course but it also depends on the number of tiles you move - for each tile you reroll the chance Also if you don't move at least one tile you never get paw strike.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Nemira
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 31, 2007 03:31 PM |
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@Elvin: that is very good info thanks! Now what skills you try to get or grab as soon as offered when playing dwarves? I always tried to get attack / defense / light / destructive / luck as it looked a strong combination. Not sure about logistics / englightment / sorcery. Mmmm, not upgrading the spearwielders means you get an ammo cart from the start or as soon as possible I guess? Since on hard I start with no buildings built and 1st thing to do is to get a tavern, how would you build from there? And do you buy balista / tent in 1st week to help with creeping? I consider them a bit of a money sink, as it will severly hamper your economy development for 1st-2nd week no? Thanks!
-Nemi
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted October 31, 2007 04:46 PM |
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Sorcery, enlightenment and leadership are all good picks with the former two more for a magic build. I take a more might approach so I don't get them often.
Attack I consider only for battle frenzy->power of speed, maybe tactics to get the shooters with bears. Seems you can now get retribution shich I'd certainly go for it in a longer game - dwarves' damage is just bad.
Defense with natural good defense is just sick. Now defensive formation doesn't require protection(...) but vitality so it's an instant pick. Or course last stand is also good if you plan to abuse rune of resurrection  Just one unit can bring back 40% of its fallen which is terrifying..
Luck->soldier's luck for bears/skirmishers/runes not to mention luck extra damage.
Considering I use magic as support for a might build I only take light or destructive. Destructive for short games but if you start with Erling it seems a no-brainer to go for destructive and warlock's luck.
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Hard does not mean lvl 1 town, most maps start at lvl 3 with tavern and fort included. I don't care to buy an ammo cart because the ranged damage is minimal anyway, the shieldguards and bears do all the work. As for the ballista it pretty much sucks considering it takes 6 levels to reach its potential that almost all other factions can outshine. Yes runic machines can make it play faster but I still don't think it's worth it unless in a rush.
____________
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Map also hosted on Moddb
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Nemira
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 31, 2007 05:54 PM |
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@Elvin: So you never take archery with dwarves from attack? Or the magic resistance perks from luck / defense? Sure rune of exorcism is great if you get it, tho only being able to use it twice a battle (?)but not all fights can be finished in 2-3 turns, so a dark magic user would eventually get the upper hand no?
And, what counter have dwarves for frenzy! I think am positive that cleanse doesn't remove frenzy right? So maybe only making the stack magic imune with the light spell?
And! In Haven case, do you pick both attack and defense? I always tried to get attack / defense / light magic / luck / leadership, but this leaves no room for englightment which should be a good booster mmm?
-Nemi
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Nirual
Famous Hero
Imbued Ballista
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posted October 31, 2007 06:11 PM |
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Quote:
And, what counter have dwarves for frenzy! I think am positive that cleanse doesn't remove frenzy right? So maybe only making the stack magic imune with the light spell?
Magic Immunity is a possibility (in fact, the only apart from Vampirism and Lay Hands). Although you could also use Teleport to move the stack somewhere where it will only attack an enemy stack, effectively turning Frenzy against the caster.
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In ur base killing ur doods... and raising them as undeads.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted October 31, 2007 06:45 PM |
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There is not much point in planning exactly what you want you just get two skills first and see how it goes. Dwarven luck is a must vs destructive or dark. Expert defense is a built-in counter by itself, even if you get frenzied the near stacks can survive. Puppet though is really annoying and both cleansing and magical immunity are harder to get with the inclusion of new spells.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Nemira
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 01, 2007 12:53 PM |
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About this thing, is it best to visit mage's vault & utopia etc when you get expert in all magic schools you picked, or as soon as you can break it? IE: I often was offered light or destruction pretty late in game, and was at basic or advanced skill, will I still learn the spells from the locations but not able to use them until I get the coresponding magic lvl, or I miss on learning them completely? TY!
-Nemi
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Moonlith
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
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posted November 01, 2007 12:59 PM |
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I'm not sure about that.
At least with Utopias you always get Level 5 spells you are capable of learning, and if you already know them, level 4 spells. You never got spells outside from the school you can learn, but I haven't ever tested with a basic level in that school, and wether the spell is available when you reach expert level later.
That aside, I think they changed it in ToE for the utopia to give complete random level 5 spells.
But I'm not sure wether you learn it or not if you don't have the skill for it.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted November 01, 2007 03:15 PM |
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You must have expert to learn, otherwise you get no spells. Back in HoF you could build mage guild 5 first and then visit the utopia so it would give you the spells you did not have. Now with things random I don't know.. You may get light and summoning when you have destructive only
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Nirual
Famous Hero
Imbued Ballista
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posted November 01, 2007 05:11 PM |
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Actually, you "learn" the spells regardless of your skills, but you won't be able to use them before you learned the right skill.
To my experience, they don't even show up in the spell book, and I'm not sure if they can be shared with Scholar, but they are there.
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In ur base killing ur doods... and raising them as undeads.
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