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Darmo
Known Hero
True Gentleman
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posted May 31, 2009 12:10 PM |
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I think U are riight Elvin. I often use Djin as a bait so the enemy focus on it. But still it only last for one or two turn.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted July 27, 2009 02:30 PM |
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Bumped for Dannyz0r 
Quote:
Hello i'm new to this forum
Got a few questions about academy (i am quite a newbie player atm)
First of all what does MMR mean ?
Also how do you defeat Academy in late game when they have troops full of arties (+50% init , +2 speed , -75% magic damage)
I couldn't do anything with dungeon against it
Also how do you kill 10-15 dragons in 1st week (or any other tough units )
First off welcome.
MMR is multi magic rush, not something I would suggest trying until you get to learn the faction better. Basically it involves picking xp from chests and hitting mage guild 5 soon and rushing the heck out of your opponent week 2-3. Of course you build less units that way and rakshasas/golems at least get skipped. But if you attack haven week 2-3 with phoenix/puppet/implosion then they stand zero chances. Maps that allow week 3 fights are not balanced anyway so few play them.
Academy doesn't have anything special, sure is good in endgame but just about everyone can defeat them. Admitedly dungeon taking down academy is not easy but should be manageable. Try swift mind, get elemental arties, initiative, enlightenment - you will need both might and magic to take them down.
10-15 dragons week 1 is not possible(usually) but week 2 you might get lucky. Early tricks are firetrap, circle of winter with cold death, flaming arrows, dark abuse.. But it takes some practice to get it right and recognize potential suicides.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Dannyz0r
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 27, 2009 02:46 PM |
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Okay thanks for the info .
When i played with my mate (we usually play RMG maps ) i was dungeon and i barely touched him , he had ~20 init on all units , and he also mirror'd some of my spells.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted July 27, 2009 02:51 PM |
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Quote:
Okay thanks for the info .
When i played with my mate (we usually play RMG maps ) i was dungeon and i barely touched him , he had ~20 init on all units , and he also mirror'd some of my spells.
Lol if the map allows him to hit 50 knowledge then it is too epic for my tastes As for mirrorring never EVER use direct spells against academy, prefer aoe like fireball or meteor. And if we are talking seriously large armies, as in beyond week 4-5 then you may want to consider taking dark instead. A puppet can be mirrored sure but if you get hold of his djinns or rakshasas it can make it worth your while. Plus in too long games destructive is not that good.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Dannyz0r
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 27, 2009 10:29 PM |
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We are both pretty newbish we usually fight after 2 months or so 
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MagisterOfMagi
Tavern Dweller
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posted August 04, 2009 01:31 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Plus in too long games destructive is not that good.
You are soo right,destructive is a magic school which is best used by rusher factions and of course warlocks.In the end light magic (or dark for that matter)will prevail.
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shardik
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 31, 2009 03:22 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Plus in too long games destructive is not that good.
You are soo right,destructive is a magic school which is best used by rusher factions and of course warlocks.In the end light magic (or dark for that matter)will prevail.
I somewhat consider wizards and warlocks almost equally powerful destuctive spellcasters, due to the Mark of the Wizard.
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted August 31, 2009 04:42 PM |
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Well you may have a point that theoretically they could deal the similar ammounts of damage to one creature. But that isn't really the deciding factor is it?
In the time it takes a Wizard to MotW a unit and then cast 1 spell a Warlock will be close to his second cast so the damage per hero actions is a lot higher than with a Wizard. It's often crucial to do a lot of damage fast so MotW eventhough it doubles damages comes at a relatively high cost. Not to forget that it counts as two spells cast so resistance may trigger for the second.
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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shardik
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 31, 2009 07:00 PM |
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Edited by shardik at 19:02, 31 Aug 2009.
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You got a point (which is why I added the "almost"  ). But empowered spells only add 50% damage and doubles the cost, where MotW doubles the cost AND damage. Additionally, MotW is much more flexible, and can be used to add the secondary effects from skills like Master of Fire and Master of Ice to more than one creature per turn.
It is only in the very beginning (the first hero action) Warlocks deal more damage. From then on it's almost even, and in some ways with a slight edge to the wizard.
It is (IMHO) of course a matter of personal preference which style you prefer, but I would never trade MotW for empowered spells, not even with a pure destructive build.
Furthermore, I feel that the Academy creatures complement a destructive caster very well, especially the Elemental Gargoyle and the Magnetic Golem. With the gargoyle, a wizard can easily match the damage of a warlock.
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veco
Legendary Hero
who am I?
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posted August 31, 2009 07:10 PM |
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Edited by veco at 19:21, 31 Aug 2009.
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Quote:
but I would never trade MotW for empowered spells, not even with a pure destructive build.
Well then, would you trade it for Empowered Spells, Irresistable Magic and Elemental Chains?
edit:
A 19SP Implosion deals 800 damage, with MotW that makes 1600.
A Warlock hits for 1200 + 300(25%possible elemental damage) = 1500
Wizard uses 1,5 turn for that and he'll have to use more if the marked target dies, Warlock deals 1200 constantly.
19SP is pretty high for a Wizard, but Warlocks can get up to 30 and more. 29SP does 1800+450 = 2250.
You can't ever hope to beat Warlocks damage per turn with a Wizard
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none of my business.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted August 31, 2009 07:26 PM |
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Maybe with elemental gargoyles, motw and continuous warlock luck And I wouldn't bet on it. However if you manage to get 20+ power and boosters it's not half bad..
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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shardik
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 31, 2009 08:11 PM |
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Edited by shardik at 20:12, 31 Aug 2009.
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Well, of course the warlock will have a slight edge, but add the gargoyles (another 50% damage) and the fact that MotW allows you to apply secondary effects like stun, freeze or 50% defense to more than one creature, and it begins to even out. Also, the warlock should statistically have 50% more spellpower, but the wizards will have 3 times more mana, and should be able to cast much longer. Considering that he can also ressurrect golems with the damaging spells, he is in my opinion just as able as the warlock.
I agree, that for simple, fast (read: first action) direct damage the warlock reigns supreme. But in a longer fight, my money is on the wizard.
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Cleave
Promising
Famous Hero
Raging Blood
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posted August 31, 2009 08:34 PM |
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Counterspell can be a real pain for a Warlock... But I'd say that as far as Destructive is concerned the Warlock has more than a "slight" edge (especially if you assume that both have Warlock's Luck). It's just that the Wizard will probably have more options. There are many factors that can modify the issue of such a confrontation.
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13 Heroes
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SKPRIMUS
Promising
Supreme Hero
The One and the Prime
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posted September 01, 2009 04:08 AM |
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Interesting theoretical discussion: I agree with Azagal/veco/Cleave in that there are other circumstances involved, not just pure destructive spell damage calcs ;
1. Irrestible magic: still significant damage even if spell resisted/protected (except magnetic golems). Some spells cast by Wizard will not damage some creatures (esp black drags).
2. Elemental chains as mentioned already but including creature damage bonus.
3. Targeting: very easy to target warlock's one area spell vs MotW where area targeting can be problematic. Area spells are where damage output rocks.
4. Warlock has high attack attribute & wizard little attack: the dungeon creatures will hit hard as well especially combined with luck.
However, normal creeping vs AI with wizard may be easier due to more mana (esp Nur) & less smart computer moves. And wizard will likely have a second magic school for more options like healing army back near end of battle.
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Hope defeats despair - "a blatant clue"
too many idiots in VW
"to lose is to win, and he who wins shall lose"
bashing orcus 
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted September 01, 2009 08:10 AM |
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It's also about Warlock being a one-trick horse, while Wizard is pretty versatile. It might be that Wizard is not quite as good as Warlock in Destructive, but being almost as good is pretty nice, considering that he will probably also master Summoning and/or Light and/or Dark.
So yeah, Wizard has more strings to play on, which will pay off in longer battles, while Warlock admittedly is the best to rush-blast.
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What will happen now?
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MagisterofMagi
Tavern Dweller
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posted September 08, 2009 03:27 PM |
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Seeing this warlock vs.wizard + destructive dilemma,i felt i needed to say something.
I LOVE WIZZARDS
I have a strategy:
NATHIR with:
Exp.Destructive->M.of Fire->Secrets of Destruction->Ignite
Exp.Sorcery->Magic Insight->Arcane Brilliance(prerequisite of Warlocks Luck)
Exp.Luck->Soldiers Luck->Warlocks Luck
+Mark of The Wizard
+Magic Mirror(especially against warlock+necro)
PROS-effecive destructive spell-fireball-can deal approx.800 dam around level 20*(and fire arties are easy to get)
-can be rechen even on a small/medium map
-on longer maps enlightment and summ/light/dark magic can be added
-800 dam * 1.5 fire artie x mark of the wizard x 0.33 for next 3 turns extra dam = woopeee!!!!!!!
I dont say warlocks are not effective but imo their units are useless(only as fodder)and relying only on destruc.is risky agaist some factions.And wiz can learn other mag school because of Libary they will have a dozen of spells....
Other effecive wizards are Ihora,Nur,Galib.
The crazy thing is Havez is avery effecive creeper but will not get ANY magic skills till lev8-10 whck is really tacky....
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MagisterofMagi
Tavern Dweller
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posted September 08, 2009 03:29 PM |
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Not to mention that latter*(lvl 4-7)academy units are more efective than dungies'....sry cave maggots...
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veco
Legendary Hero
who am I?
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posted September 08, 2009 03:38 PM |
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It's effective vs AI, yes. However a human player will be packing fire resistance arties, possibly Fire Resistance perk from Light Magic and magic resistance which will render Nathir's special useless. Jhora or Nur is a better destructive hero since the enemy might not even know that you have destruction magic.
Warlocks can focus on Earth/Fire/Ice spells making the opponent guess which protection they should choose and while Nathir can also fool the opponent by not picking Fire spells (or even destructive) at all but that makes his special useless.
It's still awesome if you make your enemy fear Fireballs (and hence packing protection) while going Light/Summoning which renders his arties/perks useless aswell
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none of my business.
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Kispagat
Famous Hero
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posted September 08, 2009 04:25 PM |
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Quote:
I dont say warlocks are not effective but imo their units are useless(only as fodder)and relying only on destruc.is risky agaist some factions.And wiz can learn other mag school because of Libary they will have a dozen of spells....
You are highly underestimating dungeon army power. But if you compare wizard and dungeon units one by one, you will see that wizard units by default are ridicolous. They really work as fodders except maybe titans.
Naturally, low growth balances dungeon creatures superior stats.
In a multiplayer game dungeon vs aca is a good matchup for aca they say. I am not sure.
I think destruction is not a good weapon for aca, since magic resistance/arties may decrease its effect a lot. Maybe a phoenix boosted with light magic is a better idea.
For me aca is connected to light and summoning, or light only. But on the other hand for dungeon all skills and magic is good. For me dungeon is the most flexible faction of the game, therefore the most unpredictable.
If you ask me, sometimes dungeon with light is more frightening then dungeon with destruction.
But I think dungeon is the hardest faction to play, and thats what makes them look weak.
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted September 08, 2009 07:17 PM |
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Uhh, i so miss playing some heroes and show the infidels the power of darkness (read dungeon)
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