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| Thread: Dungeon Overview |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · NEXT» |
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Gom_Jabbar
Promising
Famous Hero
Revealer of Truth
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posted May 31, 2006 05:14 PM |
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Dungeon Overview
I must say that Dungeon wasn't one of my favorite towns in HOMM3, but I'm begining to like it more and more now. I really think the the title "Warlock" it's begining to take a new meaning. So lets just talk a little bit about this wonderfull faction:
Creatures:
Level 1:
Scout:
good parts: - best damage for lvl 1 creatures
- good attack and defense
- very good health
- good initiative
- decent speed
- no melee penalty
bad parts: - few shots
conclusion: upgrade them as soon as possible
Assassin:
good parts: - best damage for lvl 1 creatures
- good attack and defense
- very good health
- good initiative
- decent speed
- no melee penalty
- poisonous attack
bad parts: - few shots
conclusion: this is definetly the best lvl 1 creature; use them to hit as many enemy creatures for the est use of the poisonous attack ability.
Level 2:
Blood Maiden:
good parts: - best damage for lvl 2 creatures
- good attack
- very good health
- very good initiative and speed
- strike and return
bad parts: - relatively low defense
conclusion: also try to upgrade them as soon as possible
Blood Fury:
good parts: - best damage for lvl 2 creatures
- good attack
- very good health
- outstanding initiative and speed
- strike and return
- no enemy retaliation
bad parts: - medium defense
conclusion: again Dungeon has the best creature of the level; due to the "strike and return" ability and the high speed and initiative you can use them to protect your shooters and deal damage at the other end of the battlefield at the same time.
Level 3:
Minotaur:
good parts: - good attack
- good damage
- medium initiative and speed
- great health
- always has good morale
bad parts: - low defense
conclusion: use them to defend your shooters.
Minotaur Guard:
good parts: - good attack
- good damage combined with the double attack ability
- medium initiative and speed
- great health
- always has good morale
bad parts: - low defense
conclusion: even if they have a very low defense, they compensate with the high health; they can be used to protect shooters or for close-medium ranged combat, due to the high damage.
Level 4:
Dark Raider:
good parts: - good atack and defense
- good initiative and speed
- very good health
- rider charge ability
bad parts: ???
conclusion: very good offensive unit, but can also be used for defensive measures.
Grim Raider:
good parts: - good atack and defense
- good initiative
- very good speed
- very good health
- rider charge ability
- lizard bite
bad parts: ???
conclusion: the rider charge ability combined with the great sped and initiative makes it a powerfull assault unit, and the lizard bite ability also makes it a very good suport unit; use this unit to deal as much damage as possible.
Level 5:
Hydra:
good parts: - good attack
- medium defense
- very good health
- three headed attack
- no enemy retaliation
bad parts: - low damage
- low initiative and speed
conclusion: meant to be used to protect shooters or to attack betwen more enemies.
Deep Hydra:
good parts: - very good health
- five headed attack
- no enemy retaliation
- regeneration
bad parts: - mediocre attack and defense
- low damage
- low initiative and speed
conclusion: "to serve and protect"' this must be the sol purpouse af the Hydra.
Level 6:
Shadow Witch:
good parts: - good damage
- good initiative
- decent spells
bad parts: - low attack and defense
- low defense
- few shots
conclusion: relatively loe attack and defense but compensates with some decent damage and array of spells.
Shadow Matriarch:
good parts: - good damage
- good initiative
- decent spells
bad parts: - low attack and defense
- low defense
- few shots
conclusion: not a very big improvement, but nevertheless it's a decent shooter, especially if combined with an ammo cart, wich seems to be a "must" for Dungeon due to the lack of shots of their shooters.
Level 7:
Shadow Dragon:
good parts: - good damage
- good health
- good initiative
- very good speed
- flyer
- fire breath may come in handy 
bad parts: - low attack and defense
conclusion: well... it's a dragon, use it to get to the enemy shooters using the fire breath ability.
Black Dragon:
good parts: - good improvement in attack and defense
- good damage
- good health
- good initiative
- very good speed
- flyer
- fire breath
- magic immunity
bad parts: ???
conclusion: just set your enemies on fire and off the battlefield.
Unlike other factions the growth rate of Dungeon creatures is quite low. They tend to compensate quantity trough quality. High damage, high health points, high speed, all of them aided by the powerfull damaging spells of the warlock makes it the perfect offensive faction. Also lets not forget about the "elemental chains" racial ability wich helps you boost an already high damage of creatures and spells. An warlock, combined with the right skills and abilities can become an unstopable force on the battlefield
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Muerte
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 31, 2006 07:39 PM |
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Edited by Muerte at 19:44, 31 May 2006.
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Quote:
Level 3:
Minotaur:
good parts: - good attack
- good damage
- medium initiative and speed
- great health
- always has good morale
bad parts: - low defense
conclusion: use them to defend your shooters.
Minotaur Guard:
good parts: - good attack
- good damage combined with the double attack ability
- medium initiative and speed
- great health
- always has good morale
bad parts: - low defense
conclusion: even if they have a very low defense, they compensate with the high health; they can be used to protect shooters or for close-medium ranged combat, due to the high damage.
Level 5:
Hydra:
good parts: - good attack
- medium defense
- very good health
- three headed attack
- no enemy retaliation
bad parts: - low damage
- low initiative and speed
conclusion: meant to be used to protect shooters or to attack betwen more enemies.
Deep Hydra:
good parts: - very good health
- five headed attack
- no enemy retaliation
- regeneration
bad parts: - mediocre attack and defense
- low damage
- low initiative and speed
conclusion: "to serve and protect"' this must be the sol purpouse af the Hydra.
Great post, I learned alot about the Dungeon faction from your post. I just wanted to question you about these 2 creatures because they seem to be capable of filling different roles than just "sit back and protect the shooters"
They both seem like they should be moving forward to intercept enemy ground troops, especially the hydra with its multiple attack, it can control the center of the battlefield with ease and yet you don't favor that use? Could you tell me why? I'm just curious.
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Gom_Jabbar
Promising
Famous Hero
Revealer of Truth
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posted May 31, 2006 08:03 PM |
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Quote:
They both seem like they should be moving forward to intercept enemy ground troops, especially the hydra with its multiple attack, it can control the center of the battlefield with ease and yet you don't favor that use? Could you tell me why? I'm just curious.
I'll tell you how I see things:
The Minotaur Guard:
- even if it seems to have low damage the double attack is a great ability which brings out the best out of them; as I said they are good either to protect shooters or for close-medium ranged combat; the reason is that you already have 3 creatures that can go all the way to the enemy; if you can pin down the enemy on the other side of the battlefield its ok to take time and get your minotaurs there to finish the job---if not just wait for the enemy to come in range.
The Deep Hydra:
- I can see that it seems this creature is some sort of a tank who can deal a lot of damage; potentially it can hit 5 targets at the same time, but that is not the case in the real world; you will be lucky if you can hit more then 2 enemies at the same time; also the low initiative and speed is not going to make it very efective on the battlefield as an assault creature.
Dont forget that tactics change with every battle, and feel free to improvise for the maximum effect.
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Guldan
Adventuring Hero
Soon to be banned...........
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posted May 31, 2006 08:42 PM |
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Nice thread man!
About the heydra, when you put only him a few points forward, most enemys will attack him, what means that wen he retaliates he will kill many, so it can be offensive creature.
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Gom_Jabbar
Promising
Famous Hero
Revealer of Truth
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posted May 31, 2006 09:05 PM |
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Retaliation is not an offensive action but rather a defensive one I would say. Picture this: Dungeon has 7 creatures
- 2 shooters --> they dont move (unless they ran out of shots), and need protection
- 1 flyer ---> can go practically anywere on the battlefield and kill stuff
- 2 fast walkers ---> just like the flyer they can go kill stuff, plus an advantage with the bloo fury that can also be used to protect shooters
- 2 slow walkers ---> I use them for protective measures
That means that 5 out of 7 creatures are already offensive, and we got 2 strong defenders in the back, that can be used as reinforcements if needed.
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Guldan
Adventuring Hero
Soon to be banned...........
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posted May 31, 2006 09:18 PM |
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Quote:
Retaliation is not an offensive action but rather a defensive one I would say. Picture this: Dungeon has 7 creatures
- 2 shooters --> they dont move (unless they ran out of shots), and need protection
- 1 flyer ---> can go practically anywere on the battlefield and kill stuff
- 2 fast walkers ---> just like the flyer they can go kill stuff, plus an advantage with the bloo fury that can also be used to protect shooters
- 2 slow walkers ---> I use them for protective measures
That means that 5 out of 7 creatures are already offensive, and we got 2 strong defenders in the back, that can be used as reinforcements if needed.
You've got some good points, but (you knew thre was coming a but ):
#1. I nver really protect my shooters, when they are attacked (what hapens not much by enemy melee units)my entire army will attack them, so i have many kills and few casualties. So it is always shooter against shooter.
#2. retaliation can be an awsome attack when used with dark raiders and hydra's, really tons of enemys die that way, every attack on a hydra (wth good luck and morale) will result in retaliation, what means alot of kills, and when you have dark raiders hey will attack too.
#3. you say that with flyers and fast walkers you can kill stuff, the enemy attacks too, and when you have 1 or 2 units in the enemy line every thing will attack your 1 or 2 creatures meaning they die fast.
My tactic is to hld a line and let the enemy come for the mostpart then attack with everyting you have.
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Gom_Jabbar
Promising
Famous Hero
Revealer of Truth
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posted May 31, 2006 09:37 PM |
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No one said that you should follow my tactics. There are thousands of players, therefore thousands of strategies. Everyone is free do do whatever he wants, I only tried to explain my tactics. Who knows, maybe one day we shall meet in battle and see which one of us has the upper hand.
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Guldan
Adventuring Hero
Soon to be banned...........
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posted June 01, 2006 08:28 AM |
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I know, i bet you are even further then me in the campaign of skirmish mssions, but i just like to discuss.
BTW, i really doubt if we would ever meet in battle, because of "some" dificulties with homm5,.
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Vicheron
Known Hero
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posted June 01, 2006 09:32 AM |
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The Grim Raider's lizard bite is very easily exploitable. Put 1 Blood Fury in each of your empty slots. Have the Grim Raider move next to as many enemy creatures as possible. Have the Blood furies attack the creatures adjacent the Grim Raider and you'll get a bunch of extra damage from lizard bite.
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MalankCity
Tavern Dweller
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posted June 01, 2006 11:26 AM |
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I find the best faction so far is Haven 
Training is imba, and nice overview of the castle 
Any idea how to do the Dark Ritual? It only says that you can do it in the beginning of the day, but I can not find any button to perform it. Please help!
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Gom_Jabbar
Promising
Famous Hero
Revealer of Truth
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posted June 01, 2006 01:44 PM |
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Quote:
Any idea how to do the Dark Ritual? It only says that you can do it in the beginning of the day, but I can not find any button to perform it. Please help!
There is no special button to perform the dark ritual. Open your spell book and at the special abilities tab (the last one in the spell book) you'll find the dark ritual ability.
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MalankCity
Tavern Dweller
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posted June 02, 2006 12:34 PM |
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Ah I get it. Thank you!
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Guldan
Adventuring Hero
Soon to be banned...........
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posted June 02, 2006 12:54 PM |
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Quote:
The Grim Raider's lizard bite is very easily exploitable. Put 1 Blood Fury in each of your empty slots. Have the Grim Raider move next to as many enemy creatures as possible. Have the Blood furies attack the creatures adjacent the Grim Raider and you'll get a bunch of extra damage from lizard bite.
Yep, good tactic. Perhaps an idea to put more then 1 blood furie, with one you just need one chain-lighting and they are all dead.
I think if you take 10 it would be a really good tactic.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted June 03, 2006 04:41 PM |
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assassins the best level 1 creature? lol. I haven't played dungeon yet, but if their growth rate is really 7 (14 with castle), they are the worst, not the best, with the lowest weekly dmg of all lvl 1 units. Correct me if i'm wrong
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Gom_Jabbar
Promising
Famous Hero
Revealer of Truth
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posted June 03, 2006 05:55 PM |
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Quote:
assassins the best level 1 creature? lol. I haven't played dungeon yet, but if their growth rate is really 7 (14 with castle), they are the worst, not the best, with the lowest weekly dmg of all lvl 1 units. Correct me if i'm wrong
Lets just assume that 6 heroes meet. They have tha same stats, no spells whatsoever, no artifacts, and their armies consist of only lvl1 upgraded creatures(basic growth, 1 week army)
Academy: 20 Master Gremlins X 105 power points each ==> 2100 total power points
Dungeon: 7 Assassins X 295 power points each ==> 2065 total power points
Haven: 22 Conscripts X 70 power points each ==> 1540 total power points
Inferno: 16 Familiars X 124 power points each ==> 1984 total power points
Necropolis: 20 Skeleton Archers X 84 power points each ==> 1680 total power points
Sylvan: 10 Sprites X 163 power points ==> 1630 total power points
Obviously shooters have a clear advantage so Haven and Inferno are out. So:
Assassins Vs. Master Gremlins: 14hp vs. 6hp, higher initiative for Assassins(so they shoot first), poisonous attack ==> Assasins win
Assassins Vs. Skeleton Archers: 14hp vs. 5hp, higher initiative for Assassins(so they shoot first, and more often), poisonous attack ==> Assassins win
Assassins Vs. Sprites: 14hp vs. 6hp(and only 10 sprites), the Sprites can only use "Wasp Swarm" twice, poisonous attack remaines ==> Assassins win
Still thinking they'r bad?
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted June 03, 2006 06:23 PM |
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well, I've done my calculations via H3 week damage formula which was DAM= (1+((A-D)*X))) * Creature_count * RND_damage and the results were:
Familiars 69
Consripts 60
Skellie Archers 57
Master Gremlins 52
Sprites 40 (not counting spells)
Assassins 32
If the formula is different in this version, please let me know.
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Gom_Jabbar
Promising
Famous Hero
Revealer of Truth
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posted June 03, 2006 06:36 PM |
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neoexdeath
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 03, 2006 07:55 PM |
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Quote:
Assassins Vs. Skeleton Archers: 14hp vs. 5hp, higher initiative for Assassins(so they shoot first, and more often), poisonous attack ==> Assassins win
1. Skeletons can't be poisoned
2. Necro will usually have more skeletons than their weekly growth (necromancy skill)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but skeleton archers might still beat assassins in similar situation.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted June 03, 2006 08:18 PM |
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I'll test that.
I'm still pretty sceptical about the assassins. Their growth is equal to units from 4th level or so, while they are still - no matter how good they are - level one.
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Vicheron
Known Hero
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posted June 03, 2006 10:39 PM |
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Edited by Vicheron at 22:42, 03 Jun 2006.
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Assassins have a range penalty in a addition to the regular range penalty so they only do half damage when they shoot, that's only 0.5 - 1 damage against creatures on the other side of the battlefield.
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