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| Thread: Proposals to become godlike and infinite |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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friendofgunnar
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posted July 05, 2006 07:09 PM |
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What's your higher purpose there Russ?
@ TA, I'm almost totally certain that your __(insert religious or philosophical tag here)__ will survive cryonic freezing. The reason I say that is that because lots of people have died before (up to a half-hour in freezing temperature ponds) and come back with sentience intact.
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russ
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posted July 05, 2006 07:28 PM |
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What's your higher purpose there Russ?
To spam this forum 
(But jokes aside - it would be REALLY nice to know the definite answer to your question!)
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friendofgunnar
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posted July 05, 2006 07:45 PM |
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(But jokes aside - it would be REALLY nice to know the definite answer to your question!)
allrightey, since your curious I'll give you a definite answer, in just a few minutes....
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TitaniumAlloy
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posted July 06, 2006 12:10 PM |
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Well, not having a soul would basically mean that our life has no meaning other than unconstrained reproduction our own kind until we use up all resources and die out along with our habitat (i.e. Earth). This means that we, humans, are no more than a very advanced virus. Personally, I don't find this very appealing.
I prefer to believe that we were put here for some higher purpose and that the material world is not everything.
Sounds like the topic of my I gave up believing in God thread.
I believe the opposite of that. I don't believe that there is any other reason that we are here than the scientific reasons. We evolved to surivive and reproduce.
So that's why I believe the most important things in this world involve having a good time. Sex, food, entertainment are the three main catagories which should prioritize. Companionship could be one, but that can go under entertainment, as the only other time it is important is really to make you feel better, and if you aim for those things you shouldn't be feeling bad anyway.
But not if you're immortal, ie. cryonic freezing. You have to think about the environment; will the human race survive long enough to bring you back? Will there be any power or anything worthwhile for you to wake up to when u do? Will your reputation from this life ruin your next?
Interesting. It's certainly changed the way I look at the world.
____________
John says to live above hell.
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kookastar
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posted July 06, 2006 10:09 PM |
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But not if you're immortal, ie. cryonic freezing. You have to think about the environment; will the human race survive long enough to bring you back? Will there be any power or anything worthwhile for you to wake up to when u do?
A guy called Aubrey de Grey believes that the technology to achieve physical immortality may be less than 30 years away {although it would be incredibly expensive and no doubt would be blocked by all sorts of groups on moral/ethical/other grounds}. Through Neotechnology, using our DNA to 'build' new body parts - or even grow a new body around our central nervous system we could still have our real 'flesh and blood' body - biological immortality.
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Well, not having a soul would basically mean that our life has no meaning other than unconstrained reproduction our own kind until we use up all resources and die out along with our habitat (i.e. Earth). This means that we, humans, are no more than a very advanced virus. Personally, I don't find this very appealing.
Would this elliminate our soul? Probably not.
<unconstrained reproduction our own kind>
One argument is that because we are not just reproducing more young - who need to start again, but infact prolonging healthy life, the experience and knowledge of the people in our world would be increased. Technology would advance at a greater degree and through this, solutions to overpopulation - sustainability would be achieved. It would be interesting to see if people's habits changed - re acting in a way that promotes a sustainable future {resources} if they knew that they were in fact going to be around in a couple of thousand years (or more).
"Knowledge is not simply uncovered; it is generated from past knowledge. Thus, each day, new knowledge and discoveries generate ever-broader bodies of newer knowledge. (http://www.neo-tech.com/neotech/discovery/appendixf.html)"
We would of course need to populate other worlds eventually, which is another question that I am still thinking about 
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russ
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posted July 06, 2006 10:20 PM |
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We would of course need to populate other worlds eventually, which is another question that I am still thinking about
I volunteer to help you with populating
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friendofgunnar
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posted July 14, 2006 10:59 PM |
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Here we shall tackle the first step: Extending your life to the point where cryogenic freezing becomes possible. I will do this in two parts: the first part will be actually preserving yourself and the second part will be discussing methods to accumulate enough resources to actually set up a trust fund for the freezing
Step 1A: Extending your longevity.
(All three of these proposals for extending your life come from the book entitled “Stop Aging Now” by Jean Carper. There’s several more but we will just talk about three)
1. If you literally want to drink from the fountain of youth, drink tea. Tea is an extraordinary drink-mainly because it is made from the leaves of Camellia sinesis, a warm-weather evergreen plant, blessed with mixtures of unique antioxidants that are infused into hot water when you make tead. Black tea, green tea, oolong tea, the “real thing” –not herbal teas- can all boost your chances of reaching old age in good shape,according to new research. Drinking antioxidant-packed tea promises to delay aging, prolong life and scare off many chronic diseases, including cancer and heart disease. Although Asian-type green tea contains more of particular types of antioxidants, black tea, popular in Western countries, seems equally effective at defusing free radical attacks on cells, thwarting aging.
2. If you want extra insurance against growing old prematurely, take supplements of coQ-10, as many researchers do. It helps correct deficiencies that come with age, particularly related to your heart, brain, immune functioning, and general resistance to chronic diseases. And it could make you younger and friskier in old age.
Here is some propaganda about Co-Q10. And here is some more.
3. Too much Iron can make you old by fostering free radical attacks on cells. “Excess iron can be very dangerous,” explains prominent researcher on aging Dr. Denham Harman of the University of Nebraska, because it facilitates free radical damage to cells. For example, iron helps change benign LDL cholesterol into the toxic type that wrecks arteries and makes hearts fail. Iron also aggravates the intensity of free radical reactions, furthering fierce free radical chain reactions that rip through many cells.
Here’s some additional information gleaned from some studies that you might want to consider in step 1A of your quest to become godlike and infinite.
Men who around young women (girlfriends, nieces, daughters) have longer lives then men who aren’t.
People who have 1 to 2 drinks a day, on average, tend to live longer than teetollers and also people who drink more than 1 to 2 drinks a day.
And finally if you are getting on in the years and find that you are not near to your goal, then your last option is the “Roy Wolford” diet. This is basically the research-tested idea that calorie deprivation will slow down metabolism to the point where your life will be extended. It’s been proven effective on rats, mice, monkeys, and insects.
It has some unpleasant side effects though, for example some human test subjects say that they feel cold and depressed, but this might be alterable under different circumstances. Irregardless, we are running up against a problem which I will formally enshrine as “Ta’s principle” which is that gambling your life on becoming Godlike and infinite may not necessarily be the most fun way to spend your time.
Coming up, proposals on ways to accumulate enough resources so that you can enact step 2.
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mvassilev
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posted July 14, 2006 11:41 PM |
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5. Gather the resources necessary to transfer your mind to another universe when this one is about to collapse.
Your other steps are imaginable. With the future's technology, they might become possible. However, this one... Where are you going to get another universe?
____________
Eccentric Opinion
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friendofgunnar
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posted July 24, 2006 08:08 AM |
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@Mvass: Of course the farther along on this list the proposals are the more speculative they will be. You are free of course, nay welcome, to suggest proposals of your own on how to become godlike and infinite.
Part B of the first step on how to become godlike and infinite is going to be proposals on how to assemble enough money to create a trust fund for cryonic freezing. We will start off by assuming that you are incapable of becoming rich by your cleverness alone. Thus the two proposals outlined below are the safest guarenteed ways to make a big pile of money. (Unfortunately they break TA's axiom in a huge way i.e....they're boring as hell).
Proposal 1: Becoming a nurse will ensure you a guarenteed income for the rest of your life. Furthermore there are additional bonuses for working with old people, working night-time shifts, and also working overtime. If you combine all three you can make astonishing amounts of money. Perhaps this will drive you crazy. If that is the case then just remember that soon you will become godlike and infinite, and your elderly tormentors will long be dead.
Proposal 2. Just as there will always be a demand for nurses, there will always be a demand for accountants. Accountants can make huge amounts of money during tax season if they are willing to work hard and not sleep.
Having a big pile of money though is no guarentee that you will have enough for cryonic freezing. You need to take the money that money and invest it in something else. We will examine one fairly safe route, and one riskier route. The one that you choose will of course be your personal preference.
The safest investment you can make is in land. This is for the simple reason that "God isn't making any more of it." The drawbacks of course are that it could take a long time to realize that profit. If you take this route then the first thing you have to keep in mind is that global warming is going to change many of the colder climates into more appealing temperate ones. Canada, The Northern United States, Northern Europe, Northern Russia, etc are all going to benefit. Canada's and Europe's tax structure though are not very conducive to making a profit off of land. That leaves the Pacific Northwest and the Russian far east as the very best candidates, and possibly Antarctica, depending on whether people stop driving SUV's in time.
The second option is riskier. Watching the tech industry closely and betting your money on the stock market. In the future, the biggest profits are going to be made in biotech. Here is four examples of ways to make potentially huge amounts of money in this field.
1. Selling genetic bio-enhancements (or preventing genetic diseases) in rich people's children.
2. Selling bio-enhancements to athletes.
3. Creating and licensing bio-enhancements that can be used by the military
and the holy grail of all bio-tech firms:
4. Selling longevity to rich old people (big bucks....HUGE...as much as you want really)
If you follow one of these two methods you could possibly assemble a big enough trust fund to make it all the way to the next step which we will be examining soon: safe, reliable, cryonic freezing.
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TitaniumAlloy
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posted August 27, 2006 07:50 AM |
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If I were to go into cryonic freezing I'd invest in the company I'm doing it with. Think about it. If they make it good, you're rich. If they don't, you won't be around to worry about it anyway 
But I've been thinking about rejuvenation. The point of cryonic freezing is to live until rejuvenation is possible, but it might not be necessary.
Scientists have been speculating about the aging process in order to reverse it, and they found that aging is caused by repeated mutation of the mitochondria in each cell, causing the cell to degenerate into obsoletion, due to the high energy levels associated with the mitochondria. When this happens on a large scale in the heart or lungs, or spinal cord, this causes Clinical Death, or can even go into Information Theoretical Death.
(Clinical Death is when your heart stops beating, and your brain pretty much shuts down. People come back to life in hospitals from this state all the time with nothing but a bad experience, whereas Information Theoretical Death is where your afore mentioned memory and sentience is lost, and any recovery from that point would not only be futile, but pointless, as the person wouldn't know who they are or how to handle the body they're in, and probably die again That's why cryonic scientists need to keep a body in the state of Clinical Death and prevent Information Theoretical Death because otherwise the purpose is lost.)
So they're thinking that if microbiologists can engineer a virus, which attacks every cell individually to destroy the mutant mitochondria, and replace it with a new one, after a while your body should return back to the state of youth, ie. a healthy 20 year old.
If progress is made into this in our lifetime, cryonics is unnecessary. I suspect that this virus would be cheap once made, but the demand would be high (really? no...) so the cost might be too, but to control a virus can be hard too. But I suppose that this would need to be done in a clinic, possibly with the subject in a coma to keep them alive.
Cool right? If you have the money, and you stay safe, you can live forever.
But then I thought about it more, and realize that this cannot be allowed to happen, yet. People are worried about the inhabitability of Earth atm, with the whole Global Warming ****, but no one has thought about finding a new planet to live on, or how we might get there. Because if people stop dying all of a sudden, the death rates with plummet, and the natural increase in population will skyrocket, and we'd run out of space pretty quickly.
We need faster than light travel. 
____________
John says to live above hell.
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friendofgunnar
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posted August 27, 2006 08:30 AM |
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Scientists have been speculating about the aging process in order to reverse it, and they found that aging is caused by repeated mutation of the mitochondria in each cell,
That's one of the causes. There's others too. For example on the end of every chromosome in every cell of your body is an information "cap" called a telomere that is x units long. Every time that cell divides, the cap becomes shorter and shorter until eventually the cap is gone and the cell division process starts eating away at the actual information in a chromosome. This can produce some nasty results.
Another problem is that even if we can live forever, our brains eventually turn to crap because they weren't designed/evolved to last over 75 years. Just take a look at a bunch of old people to see what I'm talking about. There's other factors too besides the mitochondria that are feeding this degeneration.
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But then I thought about it more, and realize that this cannot be allowed to happen,
Yeah, that's a whole 'notha can of worms. We're trying to become godlike and infinite here, not do something impossible like save humanity from overpopulation.
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TitaniumAlloy
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posted August 27, 2006 03:54 PM |
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Well I guess we'd have to find cures for dementia and that
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bjorn190
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posted August 27, 2006 04:06 PM |
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Just do it
if you want to
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violent_flower
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posted August 27, 2006 09:27 PM |
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Well, I aint believe in no soul
When you are referring to our “Souls” you re referring to energy. We as humans are made up of nothing but energy. When you go to touch something you are actually touching energy not the object itself. Yes this is correct you never actually touch anything your energy does. It is energy touching energy. So when people refer to your souls dying it is a direct reference to our energy. Thus making it when we loose our “souls” that we do become nothing more than a shell. It is like the elements of a light bulb burning out. So the bulb itself is our bodies (physical) and the element inside is our “souls”. What happens when the element goes bad, you have nothing but a piece of damn glass that isn’t worth ****.
So what happens to the energy after it is released from our bodies. Is it inconceivable to think it may get siphoned into another universe? Well why the hell not we are either derived from apes or we were created from dirt. So any theory that has yet to be proved still stands as that, a theory.
coming back again does not interest me in least bit unless I can take with me all of my wisdom and hard learned lessons. The road to a clean and understandable slate has been a tiring one. People enjoy viewing death as a transition period rather than an ending. This gives them a way out of their depression that has their minds bedridden. This is another reason why bible thumpers tend to grasp the bonded copy of their fate and poorly attempt to live by its man written words. If one thinks of death as a transition, we can set our minds at ease about the possibility we have done all this for nothing more than a silk lined box. If we read the Bible and swear by the pretty red words we give ourselves something to work towards. I mean really is it inconceivable to rationalize the thought we will all just end up rotting away somewhere while our families mourning their loss?
Light waves themselves are not made up of mass so they are timeless, ageless, and therefore making the expanding universe theory that Titanium Alloy speaks of, not only possible but probable unless of course that same light or radiation gets into contact with the black hole. Since the black hole is a region of space with gravitational forces strong enough to absorb light, if that light was to gravitate towards the black hole than no more expanding of the universe.
Anyway just a note on the subject and I find it fascinating to explore…
____________
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TitaniumAlloy
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posted August 28, 2006 02:40 PM |
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Well light waves aren't necessarily ageless, the energy causing the wave is, in it's rawest form, but the light can turn into heat or be absorbed or anything.
If you turn on a light in a dark room it lights up, filling it with light waves, which reflect back into your eyes. But when you turn it back off, it goes dark again, as if there never wore the light inside. The light does not fill the room like a massive gas cloud and float there, it radiates as energy and is changed into another form..
And also it may be true that once light goes into a black hole it is trapped in the singularity, but it is likely that any matter entering a black hole will be in turn "churned" back out into the universe, broken up into basic particles. Light obviously isn't massive, but with the particle wave dualty it is possible that it isn't lost forever once gone.
But I think that the end of the universe may come about one day when a singularity comes close to another massive object, a planet or a star, and the extreme gravitational force pulls the star in, increasing the gravity to pull in another planet, and another, and a whole star system, then a whole star cluster, galaxy, and eventually the whole curvature of the universe would collapse upon itself.
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John says to live above hell.
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bjorn190
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posted August 29, 2006 07:04 PM |
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A myth is usually described as a way to explain the world, and our purpose in it as well as the course of our lives.
Past myths have been religion, the flat earth, heaven and hell. Disease as punishment from the gods (influensa), etc.
Current myths include science, the universe, and working. The truth of physice is limited by the accuracy of human perception. Humans are only humans, so their perception is incomplete and inaccurate, thus the belief in the universe is incomplete and inaccurate.
Its purpose is that of a myth - to give us a way to explain the world and our existence. You have to break free from the myth in order to truly exist. Otherwise the myth closes your mind from other possibilities.
Historically, we know only one thing - and that is that mankind has always been wrong. Mankind was wrong about the flat earth, and many other things. Is is held to be true that errors are replaced by truth, when in fact errors are replaced by new errors. It is a noble effort, but one should not let it cloud ones mind.
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friendofgunnar
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posted August 29, 2006 07:33 PM |
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BTW it's going to take me a while to do the research necessary for step 2: Cryonic Freezing. So if there's anybody else who is familiar with this topic, please feel free to share your knowledge.
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russ
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posted August 29, 2006 07:54 PM |
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Edited by russ at 19:56, 29 Aug 2006.
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From what I know it is a huge scam.
I want to see something even as small as a mouse coming back to life after being frozen for a few years.
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friendofgunnar
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posted August 29, 2006 08:13 PM |
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We're not going to become godlike and infinite by being pessimistic. 
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russ
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posted August 29, 2006 09:08 PM |
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Thinking that you'll most likely die if you jump off the 50-th floor of a building is not exactly being pessimistic
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