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| Thread: Proposals to become godlike and infinite |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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kookastar
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posted August 29, 2006 09:34 PM |
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There is heaps in the media at the moment in Australia about cryo freezing...
But I really don't think that we will need it - we will have new body parts grown from our DNA to replace all that is dying/ dna theropy. This research is steaming ahead - people are already getting home grown bladders transplanted {trials}- and lungs etc are being grown as we speak 
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TitaniumAlloy
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posted August 31, 2006 03:53 PM |
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Either we won't need cryo freezing, or we will be just too late.
What I mean is, I think that the point of cryonics is to survive until you can rejuvenate your body to keep living.
Hopefully this will be created in our lifetime, but we may be slightly too late.
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TitaniumAlloy
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posted August 31, 2006 03:58 PM |
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From what I know it is a huge scam.
I want to see something even as small as a mouse coming back to life after being frozen for a few years.
The size difference is tiny compared to the barrier between being able to do it, and not.
Decades ago, we could freeze people pretty well, but, like now, can't bring them back.
Now, we can preserve people alot better with vitrification and all that, but we still haven't the technology to even get close to bringing anything back.
That will take time. The thing about cryo freezing is to take time out of the equation. When you're sitting there unconcious you aren't going to care much how long it takes.
If we could bring back a rat, there would be no question whether we could bring back a human very quickly. We're not at that stage yet.
Either that or it's a scam. A very unsuccessful and expensive one at that
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kookastar
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posted August 31, 2006 10:17 PM |
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Yeah, it is very expensive to cryo freeze and risky too - I mean where will you be stored and stuff - eww The body part thing is not too far away... how far away is the populating other planets thing do you think?
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russ
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posted August 31, 2006 10:38 PM |
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Edited by russ at 22:39, 31 Aug 2006.
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Either that or it's a scam. A very unsuccessful and expensive one at that
UNSUCCESSFUL??? They make millions!
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how far away is the populating other planets thing do you think?
Not far. I can start right now if you and Iris would help me
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TitaniumAlloy
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posted September 02, 2006 02:37 PM |
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Only 7 people are publically reported to have been cryogenically frozen.
The cost of doing so is around US$300,000 maximum, and the costs to the company would be huge.
@Kook:
Would I sound like a weirdo if I said that I think that populating other planets is depressingly far away? It's something that I like to think about, just as an interest, but the technology and costs involved would be way out of our league. Unless we develop faster than light travel, it would take generations and generations of people just to survive living on a ship for the entirety of their lives, which would be a very stupid way to populate another planet as technology would progress faster than the ship and another could probably overtake it before the first got there.
Then there's the problem of communication between the two planets, which would probably be so difficult it would be hardly worth it, with the lightspeed limit.
The amount of power involved in such a journey would be monumental, to add to the cost, especially for such a risky mission that no one living would live to see the fruits of. If it don't make dollars, it don't make cents.  (worst joke)
I guess the only glimmer of hope that I can think of is wormhole technology. If a wormhole can be opened between two planets travel would be alot easier, but would still use alot of power and very advanced technology to keep it from collapsing into a singularity. Scientists don't know much about wormholes, and I know alot less than they do, and no one is even sure if they can exist, but I think that for travel between two SPECIFIC locations would require space-time to have negative curvature so that the two planets are basically above each other in another dimension, which I guess would be very unlikely to happen to Earth and another H-Congruous planet if that is the case.
What I mean by that is that imagine the universe is like a sheet of paper, with earth (A) at one end, and the target (B) at the other. The distance between A and B is too big, but if you make use of another dimension with the negative curvature, it's like you take the paper and bend it in half (not fold, just bend) so that point A and B are above each other in Height , though in Length they are still very far away. If a wormhole could be used like a portal straight 'up' to point B, then colonizing and travel to and from planet B would be ok.
But we don't even know if the universe has negative curvature. That would involve repulsive stuff like dark matter and all that.
something like this:
but what would I know eh
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friendofgunnar
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posted September 03, 2006 08:52 AM |
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Clinical Death is when your heart stops beating, and your brain pretty much shuts down. People come back to life in hospitals from this state all the time with nothing but a bad experience, whereas Information Theoretical Death is where your afore mentioned memory and sentience is lost, and any recovery from that point would not only be futile, but pointless, as the person wouldn't know who they are or how to handle the body they're in, and probably die again
Here's an interesting philisophical question. Those 7 people that have been frozen, are they in Clinical Death or are they in Information Theoretical Death?
For other people who like to view this discussion from the religious/mystical angle.
Do you think these bodies can be revived with a soul intact? In other words is the soul still attached to the body? Is the soul in a true "purgatory" because the body is in an intermediate state between life and death?
I have no answer that's for sure.
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kookastar
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posted September 03, 2006 09:10 AM |
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Those 7 people that have been frozen, are they in Clinical Death or are they in Information Theoretical Death?
It is hard to imagine that having all the blood drained from your body and replaced with a chemical substance would not cause you to 'die'. If you are frozen for hundreds of years in this state, then I cannot imagine the brain retaining that kind of information. So I am guessing it would be more like ITD.
Which as you say, would be pointless. Does the soul linger? I hope not. Not for hundreds of years to return to a mind that must begin again - reincarnation is bad enough 
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TitaniumAlloy
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posted September 03, 2006 02:28 PM |
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FOG that's the biggest question puzzling the cryonic scientists atm, because there is no way to tell as such (yet) to be sure, and if they are in Information Theoretical death then their whole jobs are obselete, so I guess it would be a big one.
But something I've been thinking about is this. I don't really know how to explain it but I'll give it a shot .
The basic point of cryonic freezing is to live into the future, as yourself, just like you go to sleep on one day and wake up on the next, you're still you.
(Ok maybe an analogy will help.)
But suppose someone sneaks into your room in the night, stores all your memory in some hard drive (just say that they can) and kills you, clones a replica of you and uploads all your memory back into the clone brain and put you back to sleep in your room.
The clone wakes up the next morning, everything is the same, everything is telling it that it's still you. But the real you is dead, and isn't enjoying the smell of fresh coffee at all! (or green tea FOG )
I would like to think that when you die (if you signed up for freezing) then you basically close your eyes and then open them, like a blink, and you regain your senses and you're alive again, the same person. If you had the same memories you would never be sure. That would suck kinda like that re-life thing in the Sixth Day
I think it is possible though, once the vitrification technology is complete (which I don't think it is yet) then it should be fine, they have all the time in the world to develop rejuvenation, a cure for whatever killed you and the technology to actually unfreeze you while you're lying there.
It is likely that cloning technology (which is considered quite a primitive by cronicists (sp?)) would be needed to 'grow' a new body to replace the potentially damaged one around your brain (they can't do the brain because that's just begging for failure) which is where I think the line between 'you and 'microsoft sam with your face' becomes a little shady
And you have to take into account the fact that other things are going to happen besides research in the world around you. Depending on how long it takes, companies will go bankrupt, laws will change, wars will be waged, even civilizations may rise and fall, and you have to hope that some little freezing facility will survive the test of time.
But you can also expect that the potential to modify and enhance DNA to improve yourself would be developed, so you might wake up to "what skin colour would you like?"
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For other people who like to view this discussion from the religious/mystical angle.
Do you think these bodies can be revived with a soul intact? In other words is the soul still attached to the body? Is the soul in a true "purgatory" because the body is in an intermediate state between life and death?
yeah I think that parts all abit Ezekiel chapter 25 verse 17 for me.
if you have to add to your line to show that it's funny, it's probably not that's the sad thing
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friendofgunnar
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posted September 06, 2006 11:24 PM |
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Well, I aint believe in no soul
This a quote from the first page that I was LOL at the way it was phrased. It actually has nothing to do with this post.
Maybe it does.
Here's a thought experiment for you to try.
Imagine that there is a machine so amazingly sophisticated it can take your body apart molecule by molecule and recreate it in another place. In other words it has the ability to change the information that constitutes your body into another form of information and then recreate it back into it's original form.
Now imagine that this machine, instead of making one copy, makes two copies.
When you first wake up, which of the bodies will you occupy?
And how is that determined? What determines that? There's no way to actually predict which body you will end up in. Obviously the other body will claim that it's you, but it won't be, because you are you.
This non-causality implies that building a machine that can store all the information contained in the human body is in fact impossible. Which implies that there is some kind of information contained with the human body that can't be manipulated by tools created from this universe.
I'm not trying to convert you to the idea that you actually have a soul TA. You can choose not too if you want. This is just more philosophy to chew on.
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TitaniumAlloy
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posted September 10, 2006 04:13 PM |
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Well you wouldn't experience either. There would be two clones. Because your mind is not made of molecules. You can't break apart memories and put them back together. I dno
I more meant I don't believe in a thing that escapes your body when you die and goes to heaven and lives in eternal peace and happiness with flowers and flowing wine and children laughing with garlands of fresh herbs
But I heard that they've actually managed to bring a frog back to life from cryonic freezing. Russ
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frostwolf
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posted September 14, 2006 11:54 PM |
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You think in such material terms. I belive the key to achiveing a godlike status and escaping the universe is wisdom. I am only limited by my short lifespan. If, in these years, I study, and keep studying, year after year after year, when I have grasped history, philosophy, religion, logic, theology, phisycs, mathemathics, and so on, to their highest level, then time and space become irellevant. My own mortality does not bother me anymore, for my wisdom is so great that nothing will matter.
Once you have grasped all this subjects, your knowlege is so great that your own life becomes unimportant. You will become lost on the vastness of your own wisdom. Once any question can be answered, nothing will really matter. First material things, then the rest, will lose their value. Thus, you become complete and absolute, a god in your own universe, greater than any other.
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What can you expect from a world where everybody lives because they're too afraid to commit suicide?
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friendofgunnar
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posted September 15, 2006 11:26 PM |
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If, in these years, I study, and keep studying, year after year after year, when I have grasped history, philosophy, religion, logic, theology, phisycs, mathemathics, and so on, to their highest level, then time and space become irellevant.
Do you have any specific proposals on how to achieve this? (time and space becoming irrelevant)
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bjorn190
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posted September 15, 2006 11:52 PM |
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I kinda like string theory, which is that the entire universe is vibrations.
Everything humans do begins with a plan, a thought, a dream.
That dream materializes through physical action.
So matter is moved by dreams, using physical action as a tool.
I think I like platos ideas.
String theory takes us to practical applications of the ideal on the real (on another level - the ideal shape the real and always has, mind affects matter through physical action.)
You percieve your reality. What you see every day isnt real, its only an image that your mind creates based on sensory input, so you live in your dream, based on reality.
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TitaniumAlloy
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posted September 16, 2006 02:08 PM |
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frostwolf sure you can become wise but if you can't revel in it what's the point? And you are not limited by a short lifespan.
Life is about overcoming problems. Think about it. It's what we live for. Computer games are an alternate, stylized reality to create the best of the real world and make it readily accessible. Yet pretty much every computer game revolves around solving a problem. Every game.
It's that feeling of success which keeps us going.
I like to believe every problem has a solution. Even death.
But I suppose all that wisdom would be pretty wicked right? I just wouldn't want to spend my life searching for it only to die before it's completed. Because there is no way that you could learn enough to get to the point you speak of within a normal human lifespan.
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John says to live above hell.
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TitaniumAlloy
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posted May 10, 2007 10:04 AM |
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Any updates on becoming godlike and infinte?
I've sort of given up on that idea.
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John says to live above hell.
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friendofgunnar
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posted May 10, 2007 10:21 AM |
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Yeah, I found the solution to that in an unlikely place.
more later....
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TitaniumAlloy
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posted June 06, 2007 01:40 PM |
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I think basically the plan we came up with was
1. Perfect vitrification
2. Save enough to pay for cryo-freezing upon death
3. Hope that they find a way to bring you back to life in the near future and that the human race isn't wiped out, communists don't take over and that the company doesn't go bankrupt before then
4. Be brought back to life
5. Perfect rejuvenation (this may be necessary before step 4)
6. Maintain enough money to keep yourself forever young
5. Hope that the human race doesn't die out, communists don't take over and the companies don't go bankrupt before you get to infinity
6. Be disappointed at how boring infinity is and go see whats on T.V.
Sound like a plan?
When this thread was made I was sure I was gna get myself cryofrozen. I thought there's nothing to lose, why doesn't everyone do it?? lol
Now I'm not so sure.
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John says to live above hell.
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friendofgunnar
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posted June 06, 2007 09:12 PM |
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1. Perfect vitrification
2. Save enough to pay for cryo-freezing upon death
3. Hope that they find a way to bring you back to life in the near future and that the human race isn't wiped out, communists don't take over and that the company doesn't go bankrupt before then
4. Be brought back to life
5. Perfect rejuvenation (this may be necessary before step 4)
6. Maintain enough money to keep yourself forever young
That right there is when the debauchery begins 
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TitaniumAlloy
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posted June 07, 2007 09:51 AM |
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If that's what you want to call it
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