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| Thread: Heroes 4 features to come back |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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VokialBG
Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
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posted October 01, 2006 08:31 PM |
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Edited by VokialBG at 20:31, 01 Oct 2006.
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Moving creatures without heroes - Yes!
Caravans - Yes!
Daily growth of creatures - Yes!
The master and grandmaster skill ranks - Yes!
Heroes fight and can be killed in battles - Noooooo!!!!!
Flaging weekly generators (like waterwheels) deliver resources - Yes!
Retaliation happens at the same time as attacking - Yes/No - Like option
Creatures can not be upgraded - Nooooooo!!!!!
Making Choices of which creatures to build at your castle (i.e hydra or black dragon) - Nmmm
Nothing! heroes 4 was terrible in all aspects - Heroes 4 RLZ
Mixed Neutrals battle - Yes, I like this!
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted October 02, 2006 04:44 PM |
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Quote:
i went from heroes 3 to 5 and noticed all pitifully weak necropolis has became. why only 15% necromancy instead of 30%?
That must either be the joke of the year or the stupidest post in a long time. Necropolis is completely and grossly overpowered - give them a month or two, and they'll come running with 2K Skeleton Archers that'll lay anything you may put against them bare. And the rest of the army will probably just stand whatching and laughing.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted November 20, 2006 11:54 AM |
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That is one very nice post. 
I must admit I do not share your fondness for Heroes 4, but that being said, obviously, completely neglecting is was a mistake. I deffinitely think you have some excellent points about the strong parts of Heroes 4 - the skill system was good (but so is the Heroes 5 system - both are better than the Heroes 3 system) - and much of the battlefield-interaction was much better in Heroes 4 - as you say, the feature that you could shield your units behind each other deffinitely made sense.
However, there were many things that didn't add up for me in Heroes 4. The features were not so much bad, as they were poorly ballanced. For instance, some creatures were way over the top - Cyclops, Genies, Vampires and Water Elementals very quickly made your army unstoppable. Grandmaster Combat made you Hero almost invincible, whereas Heroes without this ability were laughable (which was why they probably in the last moment added the potion of immortality). Grandmaster Stealth was another skill that was way over the top - you could walk around the entire map minus garisons and get experience along the way, as you flagged all the mines and collected all the arties. Sweet. Grandmaster Necromancy made your army an avalanche that, once it had started, soon became unstoppable. Thus, with access to these features, you could win every game. And for the rest of the factions - well, tough luck. Playing Castle at the highest difficulty level was almost impossible. Your units sucked, and the growth rate was too low to match the often enormous neutral stacks.
And then, there was the problem with the gameplay - Heroes 4 (and also to some extent Heroes 5) suffered from a really poor AI programming. That for me also ment that the game often was much less fun to play than Heroes 3.
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What will happen now?
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emilsn
Legendary Hero
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posted November 20, 2006 04:48 PM |
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Hmm... I hated Heroes 4, never ever won anything ! maybe i was a newb or something, but i found it very hard! I would rather have the HoMM 2 upgrade system back! That one really rocked ... ! And caravans rocks  more units! best thing from heroes 4, or not to mention the rank system, more RP in that way!
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LichLord
Hired Hero
Banned
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posted November 20, 2006 05:49 PM |
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Moving creatures without heroes: Yes! Make it! Good idea!
Caravans: Noooooo! Nonononononononononono!
Daily growth of creatures: Make it! Make it!
The master and grandmaster skill ranks: Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeees!
Heroes fight and can be killed in battles: Yes! Make it! For the ballance beetwen heroes and creatures!
Flaging weekly generators (like waterwheels) deliver resources: No! Don't care!
Retaliation happens at the same time as attacking: Yes! Make it!
Creatures can not be upgraded: No! Nonononononononono! NOOOOOOOOOOO!
Making Choices of which creatures to build at your castle (i.e hydra or black dragon): No! Nononononononononononononono!
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kd the idiot
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted November 20, 2006 05:54 PM |
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Quote:
Caravans: Noooooo! Nonononononononononono!
What?
Quote:
Flaging weekly generators (like waterwheels) deliver resources: No! Don't care!
WHAT?
Eh, what is the point? "Let's have more micromanagement and less gameplay!" - "Yes, that sounds like a good idea!" 
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What will happen now?
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KnightDougal
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted November 20, 2006 06:00 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Caravans: Noooooo! Nonononononononononono!
What?
Quote:
Flaging weekly generators (like waterwheels) deliver resources: No! Don't care!
WHAT?
Eh, what is the point? "Let's have more micromanagement and less gameplay!" - "Yes, that sounds like a good idea!"
And what about figting heroes, who are can fight without creatures, fight like creatures and can be killed as creatures? Or the without hero moving creatures?
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B0rsuk
Promising
Famous Hero
DooM prophet
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posted November 20, 2006 06:55 PM |
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I can't understand how can you not like caravans and flaggable Windmils etc. They were great because they reduced stupid, repetitive, unnecessary micromanagement which has very little to do with strategy.
Creatures moving on their own are ok for most part, except that there needs to be a cap on how many (and/or how often) can you create/split new armies. This is because malicious people can annoy others with stacks of 1 sprite in multiplayer. Spamming 1 creature armies allows to annoy multiplayer opponents, and to slow down their movement.
I think that 'zone of control' of heroes on adventure map was great. Otherwise avoiding battle can be too easy, too long and too annoying.
I'm sceptical about heroes in combat. I think they should be able to participate in combat, but should be restricted to support roles. Even might heroes. For example, you got Spidersilk Arrow, which would remove flying ability from unit it hits. It should be expanded.
Making combat heroes like Barbarian is asking for trouble - they're either too strong, or too weak, and hard to balance.
I liked it how castle walls made you think twice before attacking. Funny, they actually nerfed castle towers in first patch, because they gave too big bonuses to ranged units occupying them.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5um8QWWRvo RSA Animate - Smile or die
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KnightDougal
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted November 20, 2006 06:59 PM |
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Quote:
I can't understand how can you not like caravans and flaggable Windmils etc. They were great because they reduced stupid, repetitive, unnecessary micromanagement which has very little to do with strategy.
Why? You are asking? It is unballances the game!
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted November 20, 2006 07:21 PM |
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Logically incorrect. A feature available for every faction can not ruin balance as long as it is not a direct counter for one side. (like panda in war3, being the epitome of imbalance).
Flagging windmills would be extremely good and it's nice to have caravans back..
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Robot
Tavern Dweller
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posted December 02, 2006 01:02 AM |
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Personally, all the Heroes are good for me. I like them all very much. Each have its own style and gameplay.
Most stuff I like about Heroes 4 is the hero system. It really makes you want to develop the heroes. Either you learn skill to improve your hero or skill related to creatures. But I agree that the skill makes the heroes supreme especially if you have 7 heroes with grandmaster combat and grandmaster life in 1 stack sure pawnz everything in the game and with countless of immortality potion, nothing can win against it. I really hope the hero system will return but of course it must be balance....cmon...they are "Heroes"...
Heroes 5 is nice too but i always feel like playing heroes 5 is like playing the improve version of heroes 3. All the stuff are the same except for the skill tree (which i like). After finishing the campaigns just to read the storyline, I feel bored of it already because not much is new in the game.
I prefer to play disciples 2 where troops can level up and change their apperance during lvl up.
Anyway, Heroes 5 and 4 are nice in my opinion....it could be better if they use both features for their next future heroes 6.
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Eldgiffen
Adventuring Hero
NobleGriffen Master Of Birds
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posted December 02, 2006 03:36 AM |
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But you gotta admit griffens are cool!=0
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Muril
Tavern Dweller
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posted December 02, 2006 03:49 AM |
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Edited by Muril at 03:52, 02 Dec 2006.
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Not to involve in already advanced discussion I will state my possible choice:
change nothin... or maybe if I really have to choose - it's of course flagging the weekly income spots.
the caravans or moving creatures - what is sense of that all as we have now the summon creature spell?
hero fightning alone, simultaneous attack and retaliation, daily growth (especially this one) - these were all some kind of poor jokes IMO and I would never like to see it again.
I saw, while just scrolling 1st page, someone said:
"H4 was single player and hot seat oriented" or sth like that
Excuse me but can you show me any other part of heroes seriest that actually wasn't like that? Because playing it online due to the turn-based system itself is a bit nuisance I think.
Yes, I am one of those who were totally disapointed by h4. (even the fast drop of the price of the game and later a "special edition like" bundle which cost the same as h3 "special edition" or so - in my country wasn't a surprise).
by occasion a question: I heard that some feats of h4 are back in HoF - is that true? and if it is - which ones.
I want to know if to bother to get HoF.
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PhoenixReborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
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posted December 02, 2006 07:32 AM |
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Quote:
the caravans or moving creatures - what is sense of that all as we have now the summon creature spell?
The caravans are nice because you can pull creatures in from external dwellings without having to send a hero. Creatures can only be summoned from the (closest) castle so the caravan serves a new and different purpose.
Additionally the caravans can be called from other castles and can be attacked on the adventure map.
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Bask in the light of my glorious shining unicorn.
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Muril
Tavern Dweller
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posted December 02, 2006 12:53 PM |
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Quote:
The caravans are nice because you can pull creatures in from external dwellings without having to send a hero. Creatures can only be summoned from the (closest) castle so the caravan serves a new and different purpose.
Additionally the caravans can be called from other castles and can be attacked on the adventure map.
actually the thing that they can be attacked is a disadvantage, it still takes the whole time to get there for normal hero, assuming he doesn't even have logistics or pathfinding.
I think that secondary hero (garrison/defense) + exp.logistics + pathfinding would be way better to use than caravans.
On top of that - caravans were not bad for h4 where this daily growth was present - here it is practically once a week.
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dale
Known Hero
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posted August 13, 2007 10:35 PM |
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I've just started HOMM5, but here is my opinion based on playing HOMM4 through every map and campaign I could find -- multiple times.
Moving creatures without heroes
I liked this -- often would park an level 1 creature on some important structure such as a trading post.
Caravans
Another favorite -- and what I voted for. I see it is going to come back when I get to the expansion packs.
Daily growth of creatures
The master and grandmaster skill ranks
Retaliation happens at the same time as attacking
Creatures can not be upgraded
Making Choices of which creatures to build at your castle (i.e hydra or black dragon)
None of these were a big deal to me.
Heroes fight and can be killed in battles
Why not?
Flaging weekly generators (like waterwheels) deliver resources
This would be nice.
Nothing! heroes 4 was terrible in all aspects
Absolutely not -- if it were, I would not have played it for more than a year.
One thing I miss already that was not mentioned, but is related to a couple of things above -- the ability to have more than one hero in a group. It was nice to use this to help train a new hero up to a decent level so that he could go off on his own. It also helped to have benefits while traveling or fighting from two different sorts of heros. On really big maps with lots of 1000 point upgrades, I would send off a stack of lords to get them high estate values and earn lots of money for me.
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Grey Beards of the world, Unite :-}}
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yasmiel
Supreme Hero
Former Chessmaster
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posted August 14, 2007 03:13 AM |
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Only things from heroes 4 that i really liked were magic system (best in series), flagable resource buildings, and creature stacking in dwellings. All other things are stuff i can live without (or more accurately, i would LIKE to live without).
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HartZa
Known Hero
watchout graveyards!
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posted August 14, 2007 06:59 PM |
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Something nice in HIV was that your hero can die or fight in combat. Was really funny to play 45 hero with grandmaster stealth, combat skills and some spells. With ultimate items you could just enemy troops with your own single hero
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Homer171
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted August 14, 2007 07:36 PM |
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Flaging weekly generators is the only thing i miss (now that we have caravans). In the end it's not that big of deal when scouts will do that work for you but it's waste of time really, flagged windmills and such would be nice.
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Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.
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phoenixreborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
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posted August 14, 2007 07:52 PM |
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Yes, and the ability to say yes or no to witch huts.
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