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| Thread: Heroes 4 features to come back |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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dale
Known Hero
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posted August 23, 2007 11:14 PM |
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Quote:
grandmaster stealth
Ah yes, loved to get a thief with grandmaster stealth. Move him all over the board with little fear of consequences -- tag the resources right out from under the noses of neutrals and enemies.
Is there such a character possible in HOMM5?
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Grey Beards of the world, Unite :-}}
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted August 23, 2007 11:18 PM |
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Thankfully no, it would be annoying.
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roy-algriffin
Supreme Hero
Chocolate ice cream zealot
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posted August 23, 2007 11:50 PM |
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Has anyone else seen what you could do with a person with grandmaster stealth in bad,bad multiplayer tips (i know you have elvin) its thankful theyre nonexaistant.
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"Am i a demon? No im a priest of the light! THE BLOODY RED LIGHT"
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Orfinn
Supreme Hero
Werewolf Duke
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posted August 23, 2007 11:58 PM |
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Edited by Orfinn at 00:04, 24 Aug 2007.
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Flaging weekly generators is the only thing i miss (now that we have caravans). In the end it's not that big of deal when scouts will do that work for you but it's waste of time really, flagged windmills and such would be nice.
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Yes, and the ability to say yes or no to witch huts.
Completely agree!
its just a waste of money on extra heroes that could do more useful things instead.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted August 23, 2007 11:58 PM |
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That was one thing I had in mind  Also I remember what you could do with Agraynel when you were offered grandmaster stealth in a quest during the Gathering Storm. Immensely satisfying but terrifying at the same time 
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted August 24, 2007 12:10 AM |
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Me too. Useless forgotten Heroes information sense tingling... the thief who teaches you Grandmaster Stealth was an old man named Jesh, he wanted 20 of each precious resource plus a lot of gold. That was actually a pretty unique campaign, what with all the stealth. I enjoyed it.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted August 24, 2007 12:22 AM |
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You sure have a good memory. Or played it recently
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted August 24, 2007 12:29 AM |
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A bit of both.  I am a real Heroes storyline freak. Man I need to get a life. 
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted August 24, 2007 12:31 AM |
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I generally have a good memory of things though I did not bother to replay the gathering storm. That would explain why I don't remember all the quests
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Moonlith
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
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posted August 26, 2007 09:13 PM |
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Moving creatures without heroes: On one hand, yes, it's more realistic and interesting, you could put up a road block of black dragons to keep out annoying wandering scout heroes, things like that. It's quite usefull, and you can send them over to your hero without a delivery hero.
On the other hand, it takes a lot more time per turn. So I remain neutral on this point.
Daily growth of creatures: I like this one. You're not FORCED to buy every day, you can simply wait till the end of the week and buy them then. It just seemed more realistic to me.
The master and grandmaster skill ranks: Maybe. Never minded it really.
Heroes fight and can be killed in battles: Worst idea ever, horribly imbalanced given heroes pretty much remain at the same strength (permanent 1 unit) while creature STACKS grow.
Retaliation happens at the same time as attacking: More realistic, but it's more aggrivating than adding to game play enjoyment, and removes a great deal of tactics. Try and play chess like that, and see how much you'd enjoy it still...
Creatures cannot be upgraded: No. No comment.
Making Choices of which creatures to build at your castle: It could be interesting, but they are somewhat doing that now, you need to choose the sort of upgrade.
That aside, I feel making different castle builds could be interesting as well, like how it was in Heroes 2. Some can be upgraded, some can't, and it's different in every faction.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted August 27, 2007 12:00 AM |
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Quote:
Retaliation happens at the same time as attacking: More realistic, but it's more aggrivating than adding to game play enjoyment, and removes a great deal of tactics. Try and play chess like that, and see how much you'd enjoy it still...
Brilliant argument. I've never thought of it quite that way, but that's exactly what I feel about this.
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What will happen now?
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SoRHunter
Hired Hero
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posted August 28, 2007 02:36 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Retaliation happens at the same time as attacking: More realistic, but it's more aggrivating than adding to game play enjoyment, and removes a great deal of tactics. Try and play chess like that, and see how much you'd enjoy it still...
Brilliant argument. I've never thought of it quite that way, but that's exactly what I feel about this.
Not really a great argument. You had some units which had the "first strike" special ability (like white tigers), some with "negate first strike" (like pikemen), heroes could develop either archery or melee to master or grandmaster (both would make the hero strike first) or the "First Strike" or "Snake Strike" magic (with their mass versions as well). Have you consider them in your tactics?
Besides, the rules apply from the beginning to the end of the game, so you had to change your strategy according to this set of rules. It's not about removing tactics but changing tactics.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted August 28, 2007 04:08 PM |
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Yes, but only some units had these abilities, and you were forced to take the appropriate magic skills and have access to those spells to use them. For me, it was a huge set-back because it narrowed down tactical element extremely much.
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What will happen now?
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BrennusWhiskey
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
The quickest H4 player
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posted August 28, 2007 05:15 PM |
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HOMM 4 FOREVER!
Its the best strategic, online game I ever know))
Especially with equilibris))
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Moonlith
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
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posted August 29, 2007 05:18 PM |
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Edited by Moonlith at 17:19, 29 Aug 2007.
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Not really a great argument.
Queen hits pawn. Both die. That sucks. How is that not a great argument?
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Besides, the rules apply from the beginning to the end of the game, so you had to change your strategy according to this set of rules. It's not about removing tactics but changing tactics.
The fact is you had losses with every single battle and your army deminished every single time no matter with what stack you attacked and no matter how well 'trained' and boosted your army was. That just SUCKS. Realistic, yes, but more annoying than actually adding gameplay fun.
I'd rather have 1 or 2 creatures that have a special ability to strike before the enemy attacks them (perhaps a potential H5 ability), rather than all creatures striking at the same time and only a few having a special ability to strike before (H4).
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SoRHunter
Hired Hero
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posted August 31, 2007 01:21 PM |
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Queen hits pawn. Both die. That sucks. How is that not a great argument?
Queen hits pawn. Queen has higher attack, defence, damage, hit points,... than pawn. Queen does 1000 damage to pawn, while pawn does 1 damage to queen. Pawn dies and queen lives (except if she were terribly wounded to the last hit point, where both queen and pawn die ).
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Besides, the rules apply from the beginning to the end of the game, so you had to change your strategy according to this set of rules. It's not about removing tactics but changing tactics.
The fact is you had losses with every single battle and your army deminished every single time no matter with what stack you attacked and no matter how well 'trained' and boosted your army was. That just SUCKS. Realistic, yes, but more annoying than actually adding gameplay fun.
I'd rather have 1 or 2 creatures that have a special ability to strike before the enemy attacks them (perhaps a potential H5 ability), rather than all creatures striking at the same time and only a few having a special ability to strike before (H4).
- Have you ever considered getting Tactics (Offence/Defence/Leadership)? It will greatly boost your army stats.
- What about Nobility? You can have more troops weekly. And with Diplomacy, you can buy creatures form the enemy stack (if it's smaller than yours and not from an opposed alignment, for a cheap price).
- In the Life Magic branch, you can have Resurrection (bringing back creatures from the dead is powerful!) or you can use spells like Mass [enemy alignment] Ward, Resurrection and Guardian Angel (just to name a few).
- Get Order Magic and Charm your enemies. Or use Blur/forgetfulness against those nasty shooters. Create illusion of the stronger stacks (either friend or foe) or hypnotise their best stack.
- Go for Death and get Necromancy - watch your army grow with each victory you achieve. Curse, Life Drain, Weakness, Aura of Fear, Vampiric Touch and Hand of Death can turn the tide of battle and make you laugh in the face of your opponent.
- Nature Magic + Summoning = Daily free creatures in your army. Use Summon [creature] spell in combat and use them as cannon fodder (protecting your other units, witch do not disappear after the fight). Stoneskin, Fortune, Giant Strength, Snake Srike and Dragon Strength helps you make them survive.
- If you dig Chaos, go for the kill. Bloodlust, First Strike, Slayer, Cat Reflexes and Misfortune for your units to deal that extra punch or blast the enemy with Implosion, [Chain] Lightning or Desintegrate.
- Combine these with Combat to make deadly heroes and give your troops that extra boost.
I believe I showed some hints of strategies you can use, without even considering choosing creatures for their stats/special abilities (every creature has at least an ability), creature positioning, formation used IF you are willing to give Heroes IV a try. If not, I just wasted my time.
EDIT: typo.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted August 31, 2007 01:31 PM |
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Yes there are many strategies to minimize losses but you either like a feature or not. The idea of 2 crusaders attacking each other simultaneously with double attack is simply killing me.
Of course that mattered little as I liked playing H4 and it's not that hard to adapt.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted August 31, 2007 01:44 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Queen hits pawn. Both die. That sucks. How is that not a great argument?
Queen hits pawn. Queen has higher attack, defence, damage, hit points,... than pawn. Queen does 1000 damage to pawn, while pawn does 1 damage to queen. Pawn dies and queen lives (except if she were terribly wounded to the last hit point, where both queen and pawn die ).
Yes, but Queen attacks 500 Peasants, and does 1000 Damage to them, but also receives 500 Damage. Maybe her 1000 Damage was sufficient to kill all of them, but she still dies.
Point is, that it was incredibly annoying having, say, a stack of 20 Archangels, and going through a series of tough combats, you lost one each combat because of the retaliation thing, unless you had the first strike spell or similar magic. That, for me, was subtracting a lot from gameplay, because even though my Archangels were strong enough and I was a good enough tactician to make them go through combat without receiving a single attack, I still lost my units. Of course, you could adapt to it, but it was less fun and reduced gameplay in my oppinion.
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What will happen now?
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SoRHunter
Hired Hero
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posted August 31, 2007 03:54 PM |
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Yes there are many strategies to minimize losses but you either like a feature or not. The idea of 2 crusaders attacking each other simultaneously with double attack is simply killing me.
Of course that mattered little as I liked playing H4 and it's not that hard to adapt.
Sorry, but I remember no such thing. I am currently playing the Life campaign of HIV and I'll keep an eye on that subject. From what I remember, only the attacking crusader gets the two attacks (the one defending just counter-attack the first one).
And I agree with you, Elvin, one either likes a feature or doesn't. I hate creature upgrading feature in all Heroes games (II, III and V), but that doesn't keep me from playing them (it's more the lack of time than will).
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EDIT:
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Quote:
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Queen hits pawn. Both die. That sucks. How is that not a great argument?
Queen hits pawn. Queen has higher attack, defence, damage, hit points,... than pawn. Queen does 1000 damage to pawn, while pawn does 1 damage to queen. Pawn dies and queen lives (except if she were terribly wounded to the last hit point, where both queen and pawn die ).
Yes, but Queen attacks 500 Peasants, and does 1000 Damage to them, but also receives 500 Damage. Maybe her 1000 Damage was sufficient to kill all of them, but she still dies.
Point is, that it was incredibly annoying having, say, a stack of 20 Archangels, and going through a series of tough combats, you lost one each combat because of the retaliation thing, unless you had the first strike spell or similar magic. That, for me, was subtracting a lot from gameplay, because even though my Archangels were strong enough and I was a good enough tactician to make them go through combat without receiving a single attack, I still lost my units. Of course, you could adapt to it, but it was less fun and reduced gameplay in my oppinion.
Then, look the other way round: who said a simple pawn couldn't kill a queen? In chess, if it is the pawns turn, no matter what, only the queen dies. In Heroes different from IV, if 500 peasants attack an injured Black Dragon, none of the peasants die, while the dragon is 'kaput'.
Or get your stack of angels and go through a series of tough combats against faster units. Those creatures will kill all angels while you wait your turn. Had you been playing HIV, your angels-on-the-death-row would still 'bite' its enemies.
Alc, as I said before, it is not a matter of not having tactics, but having different tactics.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted August 31, 2007 04:34 PM |
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I'm not sure myself, it's been a while since I last played As for upgrading why do you dislike it?
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Map also hosted on Moddb
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