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| Thread: Earlygame tips |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted June 27, 2006 02:38 PM |
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Earlygame tips
Hello. I'd like to discuss earlygame tips for all castles, since we all know how important a good start is. 
Ok, so..
Haven: My favorite way is to take the archer commander. He starts with ~25 archers, plus the archers tower, plus second hero (hopefully with archers) - that results in around 50 archers. That's more than enough to get rid of most walkers around.. next, I build barracks and upgrade them, and with squires, ranged creatures are no longer dangerous to my bowmen. Very easy and effective, imo.
Inferno: Deleb + horned demons as meat shields. I level her up quickly and start the rampage with her ballista - imo it's the very best earlygame hero.
Necropolis: Kaspar aka "I-take-no-loses-earlygame". Quick tech to vamps while accumulating more and more skellie archers on weak creeps. With vamps and a throng of skellies, it's quite easy to creep anything.
The strategies for those castles are quite easy.
But what about sylvan, dungeon and most likely, academy? I have no clue yet..
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Klaital
Known Hero
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posted June 27, 2006 03:02 PM |
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Well sylvan has it rather easy as those hunters/master hunters do sick amounts of damage. You can easily clear out any non-shooters (within reason) from the map with just few weeks master hunters, with some sprites to shield them. Especially effective if you take that hunter specialist character who starts with quite a few hunters.
Academy has level 1 shooter and a hero who specializes on them so that is rather good early game for them also.
Dungeon early game is all about the blood furies, get them upgraded quickly and then you can kill any non-shooter neutrals.
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rainalcar
Promising
Famous Hero
Heroji su zakon
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posted June 27, 2006 03:08 PM |
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This isn't too complicated:
*Haven* Although archer start isn't bad, Klaus is so overpowered that he should be picked in 95% of cases - It is a piece of cake to kill 70 squires with 3 cavaliers, eventhough! they have shield bash. The jousting bonus is simply insane.
Early game strategy - win the ore/wood mine anyway you can, get a few cavaliers and chrush everything 
*Inferno* Best sellection of heroes, but Deleb is still the best - this hero is so devastating, and can clear the map with ease with only a handful of units. If the enemy attacks you - retreat, rebuy, so far your hero is far more powerful, town is more built, with more resources, so the endgame should be easier.
Burn, burn, burn, hope that you get ballista ability hero lvl2.
*Dungeon* Catalys specialist, it's all about empowered spells here. However, Blood Fury and Shadow Witch specialists should not be neglected.
Get blood furies as soon as possible, hydras are great for tough middle level neutrals.
*Academy* Jhora isn't so overpowered, increase in intiative isn't that spectacular. Magic Mirror (or what's the name) guy could be excellent in endgame, especialy against dark magic specialist.
If you get summon elemental ring - there is no tactic here, just keep your army, try to get master gremlins (yes, try, 10 ore is a big investment, academy is sick for ore) to revive the golems.
*Sylvan* worst heroes, Unicorn or Master Hunter specialist, or some other, nothing special here.
Worst start, use the sprites and pick your battles VERY carefuly. You won't get treants soon, so play carefuly and slowly if neccessary.
*Necropolis* Vladimir nr.2, vampire specialist is also incredible - this is the best unit specialist in the game, and makes the vamps much more powerful. If you can somehow win the second castle, and are short in money, do your best to convert the lvl4 from that castle to vamps - they are tremendous with raise dead.
Pray for +1 knowledge as soon as possible if playing Vladimir, that will give you 3 Raise Dead spells = invincibility, get 15-20 vampires and it's curtains for most battles.
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OOPMan
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 27, 2006 03:38 PM |
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A lot of these tips do not seem so much related to early game as specific strtageies for Heroes and Towns.
I was expecting something a little more general.
Early game strategy without and emphasis on specific Heroes might be a better idea...
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It's all fun and games, until someone loses an eye...
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Betruger
Known Hero
empowered mind
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posted June 27, 2006 04:55 PM |
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Ok here's my early game tip for academy.
Pick the Flamewielder guy. The hero which starts with fireball spell, and specializes in fire magic.
He's almost as good as Deleb. Don't need any units, fireball does all the damage. The only limiting factor is mana, but for wizard its not a problem. Besides he starts with 30 mana.
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juventas
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 27, 2006 11:57 PM |
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I know this sounds really silly, but hear me out, it's not so bad. For Sylvan, take Dirael, the wasp swarm expert. Wasp swarm is of minor use for late game, but if you upgrade summoning to expert as soon as possible, you get one of the most powerful initiative destroyers in the game (60% at expert). I've been able to minimize my losses against shooters in the early game because if you spam wasp swarm on a unit, it may never get to attack before you crush it.
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Gus
Known Hero
Not-So-Bright Crusader
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posted June 28, 2006 12:29 AM |
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*sigh*
sorry if i appear to be rude, but what about real tips, instead of "pick up Vladimir" ? this is not strategy. I mean, it's gonna be very interesting if you give your early strats with such or such hero, but you should write your tips considering the game is started with a random hero... picking always the same hero is lame, but more importantly, very boring.
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If Pacman had affected us as kids we'd be running around in dark rooms, munching pills and listening to repetitive music.
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BigBadVoodoo
A poster
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posted June 28, 2006 12:33 AM |
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if I can get fraps to work, I will make a video of how I kill various neutral stacks. =)
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juventas
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 28, 2006 01:03 AM |
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Quote:
Ok here's my early game tip for academy.
Pick the Flamewielder guy. The hero which starts with fireball spell, and specializes in fire magic.
He's almost as good as Deleb. Don't need any units, fireball does all the damage. The only limiting factor is mana, but for wizard its not a problem. Besides he starts with 30 mana.
How much damage have you been able to get out of his fire spells? At level 30 and spellpower 20 (not exact, I can't remember), I've only been able to get 700 damage out of his fireball and armageddon. Is he primarily an early start hero like Deleb or does he have long term potential?
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted June 28, 2006 11:20 AM |
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Ok, try to write more about haven earlygame with random hero
1st thing: archers ARE deadly, and you can rely on them vs slower walkers. You can sacrifice peasants in order to minimalize their loses. As I said before, try to build archers tower ASAP, and recruit second knight hero. This tip works also for academy, which can accumulate 70-80 gremlins at start even without the gremlin hero. Very helpful. If you have bless in your guild, you may consider upgrading them soon - when blessed, they are almost as deadly as master hunters.
second: pick your targets wisely - don't look at speed&initiative only. Even slower creatures, like mino guards, travel to the other end of combatfield in two rounds. You must be sure that you'll cut them out. If not, don't even try.
third: There are two ways of dealing with shooting creeps. The cheaper involves squires - so the archers can shoot everything with little loses. You can support them with deflect missle if you want to. The more expensive, yet better against more powerful units, involves imperial griffins. Be sure that you don't have any other units in your army and that your griffs are separated into 3-4 stacks. Bcuz of their initiative, you will start first and get a free battledive. Watch out, however - after that, the remaining shooters will get a turn, so it's risky if you can't kill more than half of the stack in one dive.
fourth: Any more powerful enemy can be washed away with cavaliers and their overpowered jousting bonus. With Klaus, it becomes simply a joke (5 cavaliers doing 660 dmg? LOL? ~~). Make sure you are jousting every turn to max out the damage output. Jousting arena is very cheap, so try to get it as soon as you reach town level 12.
Fifth: Since haven is the only town that's independant on high level resources, you can prevail even on the sterile maps - or too heavily guarded to capture goods quickly. Make sure you've captured ore and wood mine as soon as possible, then go for gold. DON'T take exp from the chests. Taking gold, you will quckly build a powerful army and gain advantage. Try to get capitol ASAP. Every pile of gold matters - remember, that what's not used can be utilised in training. Very rich players may consider upgrading footmans to priests->inquisitors, but be warned: It costs a lot.
Sixth: the creeps you'd better avoid: Spectres (maybe it's just my luck, but missing them seven times in a row hurts ~~), druids (NEVER attack them unless you want to suffer extreme casualties), lizard raiders (they can easily rape your cavaliers), mages (hurts!). On the other hand, golems, zombies or peasants are very easy to destroy.
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OOPMan
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 28, 2006 02:32 PM |
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Thanks Doom, that's a little more useful. Hero specific strategies don't really gel with the idea of a general ealy-game strat thread :-)
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It's all fun and games, until someone loses an eye...
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Gus
Known Hero
Not-So-Bright Crusader
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posted June 28, 2006 02:37 PM |
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For Haven and Academy, there's always the good tactics of putting your Archers/Gremlins in the corner, and surrounding them with 3 stacks of Footmen/Golems, two units with very high defense. Just "Defend" with them while your Archers pound at the opposition. Works great.
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If Pacman had affected us as kids we'd be running around in dark rooms, munching pills and listening to repetitive music.
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SuperDave9x19
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 28, 2006 05:41 PM |
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General tips, non specific faction or hero. I suppose this is obvious since it's not been laid out but i dunno:
Week 1: Exploration and Army buildup
1. make sure you ON DAY 1 before leaving beef up to maximum unit count with 1st level building buy, recruitment and alternate hero recruitment. I know this may be obvious to some but
a. You now have Primary hero for battling mild neutrals, flagging INCOME generating spots and grabbing experience/stat pickups and a secondary hero (with 1 weak monster) for picking up unguarded individual resources and experience/stat pickups cleared by primary hgero.
b. Naturally this leaves your castle unguarded. I am undecided (leaning towards don't bother) whether a 3rd hero is worth keeping at castle. I don't do it and i don't lose cities but the extra armies which are included with hero would be nice. I play SP tho at normal skill.
c. During week 1 pick up as many INCOME sources as you can which have wimp guard with your primary hero with main army. Make as much of map visible as possible. DO NOT WASTE MOVE POINTS on individual pickups (except XP chests.. I keep XP for 1500 or 1000 but take 1000 gold chests) with primary hero. Let secondary hero do that, assuming primary hero clears the way. Keep track of where the GOOD pickups are and the tough monsters are so you can return week 2 with beefy army.
2. Make darn sure by day 7 you get in creature recruitement buildings up to level 4 (5 would be nice but can be easily missed if you are very set on an upgrade to lower level creature or need lvl 2 magic guild or if you need a prequisite building) so you get week 1 and week 2 creatures of higher tierupon return on day 8. Also buy Mage Guild level 1 (or level 2 if you are a preferred spell user, at expense of monster building) so upon return at week 2 you get spells.
3. Aquire the basic skills that give long term benefits for low level monsters. I usually pick up Basic Logistics as a priority since early mobility = early riches. I play a very non-aggressive 1st week.
4. Plan an 8 day route with main hero so you can return to city to recruit serious firepower on week 2 day 1. Also you will pick up your initial spells at this time. NOW U HAVE AN ARMY.
Week 2: Initial conquests and fast expansion.
5. Go to valuable resource/income/pickup/artifact areas you spotted in week 1 but cowed away from due to guard strength. Remember don't waste primary hero move points on individual non-income/xp generating prizes. I plan on returning to town on week 4 start unless I get OWNED in combat.
6. If a enemy hero has flagged anything nearby, grab it now that it is not defended by neutrals. Now that u r strong, it is likely to your benefit to hit the enemy hero if you see him in week 2. Week 2 is also the time to teake crature outposts but this can be risky. Still i like to try it. Remember tho, a challenging battle where you lose 6 level 3 creatures makes this pickup a waste since typically they carry 3 level 3 creatures.
7. Buildings are now built to your specialized tastes. Upgrade monster buildings are a priority, but not at expense of Magic and you will need to upgrade town hall to make your income grand. Remember that early income boosts stay with you throughout game but early monster upgrades and magic guilds become useful in week 4 when you return. If you get owned in a combat this changes of course to a week 3 return, and then monsters can be a priority. This is also the period I buy Blacksmith and my 1st level creature production boosters.
Week 3:
8. This becomes more specific to Hero types, faction and user preference so I will not go on too much. except to follow thru with long term plans to return to town on week 4 and have a lotta good stuff for my heroes return. He needs a party, llots of mead and some whoring wenches cause it's been a tough 2 weeks
9. Marketplace may be required here but I still let that wait till week 4 sometimes.
10. This is where you find income sources you need and you should have 1 income source of each type and a few doubled up by end of 3. If you having issues getting 1 resource, the marketplace will be in order since you have started draining various resources for the creature upgrade houses..
In general:
When buying buildings at end of weeek, Monster recruitment houses (not upgrades) are more important since you get a weeks worth built up then in 1-2 days get next weeks.
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I am Dave.
Dave I am.
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Thanatos
Known Hero
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posted June 28, 2006 09:00 PM |
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Quote:
For Haven and Academy, there's always the good tactics of putting your Archers/Gremlins in the corner, and surrounding them with 3 stacks of Footmen/Golems, two units with very high defense. Just "Defend" with them while your Archers pound at the opposition. Works great.
Never tried it, but perhaps this could also work with Asassins/Minotaurs? (Asassins poison and Minotaurs can defend decently because of their crapload of HP for a lvl. 3 despite their defense)
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Betruger
Known Hero
empowered mind
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posted June 28, 2006 11:00 PM |
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Edited by Betruger at 23:02, 28 Jun 2006.
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Quote:
How much damage have you been able to get out of his fire spells? At level 30 and spellpower 20 (not exact, I can't remember), I've only been able to get 700 damage out of his fireball and armageddon. Is he primarily an early start hero like Deleb or does he have long term potential?
Well obviously, in the long run fireball is not that good of a spell. Meteor Shower does much more damage, but crucial thing is that Flamewielder starts with fireball. That saves you 3 turns of building magic guild let alone the resources which are not always there. You can just go and start killing everything.
I think he has long term potential, as well as Deleb btw, beacuse he just clears map quickier than other heroes, so in the long run, he'll have more experience, when it comes to final battle.
To Gus: of course every strategy is hero-dependand. That's the point. I agree that playing one hero can become boring BUT it just so happens that there are serveral overpowered heroes, that others don't stand a chance against. That's an early game strategy - picking the right leader for your troops.
Besides I think that for academy Flamewielder is really the only option. You won't have enough resources to build both magic guild and creature generators. Academy is way too much resource-hungry, it's imbalanced imo and needs patching.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted June 28, 2006 11:22 PM |
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Djinns, titans, raksasha rajas & archmages seem very powerful, but it's strict endgame, and in mid game, where you engage your opponent for the first time, academy has a hard time. You can pwn with skellies, you can't blast foes away with spells like a warlock, you can't rely on overpowered jousting bonus, you can't rape enemies with hunters&druids doing more dmg than lvl5 units. Just like in inferno, you don't have a devastating mid-game unit combo/speciality. Inferno has got deleb, at least. Academy is (IMO) sucky at start and midgame, and it may not survive till the end game, where it certainly shines (+9 initiative artifact for titans + haste? ;O)
That's why I'd gladly appreciate any tips concerning academy's earlygame.. bcuz I love academy's appearance 
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neoexdeath
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 28, 2006 11:23 PM |
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Quote:
For Haven and Academy, there's always the good tactics of putting your Archers/Gremlins in the corner, and surrounding them with 3 stacks of Footmen/Golems, two units with very high defense. Just "Defend" with them while your Archers pound at the opposition. Works great.
Similar trick works for Necropolis- Skeleton Archers+Zombie meatshield
I usually upgrade Graveyard ASAP and get Skel. Archers skill for a hero ASAP.
Another impotrant building for a necro IMO is Tower of Bones (Necro Amplifier), which greatly helps creating an army of archers.
I also priorize the Vampire Mansion.
In the beginning week 2 I get Mage Guild level 2 for the Raise Dead spell which will hopefully appear. With this spell it's possible to fight neutral ranged creatures without losses in archers. Eternal Servitute is also great when it comes to reducing losses.
When killing monsters I usually start with low level/large quantity living units to get some easy skeletons and then proceed to higher level/ mechanical/ elemental/ undead.
It's just the way I play it, it might not be the best way but works for me
When playing Dungeon I usually try to get Blood Furies early and kill all slow melee units around (like Squires, Minotaurs, Zombies etc.) and use hit-and-run tactics with Blood Furies (sometimes even run-and-run and let my hero do the killing  )
When my warlock has high enough level I give him anything BUT the Blood Furies and let him kill those nasty shooters with spells.
Any hints and suggestions are welcome 
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted June 28, 2006 11:33 PM |
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IMO, bloodfuries are overlooked. They can be effective, yes, but one mistake and bye-bye two-three populations of redheads. How annoying. Not to mention that attacking shooters with them means a total carnage.. of your furies ofc. Fast walkers/flyers (or those with high initiative) can reach them fast too, albeit it's not as scary as fighting shooters ~~ Oh yes, and AI attacks them every time it can. -_-
When playing dungeon, it's IMO good to focus on spells, since they can do the job quite well. I know the dark ritual specialist is a pure crap to many pro gamers, but I like him. Let me explain why: To restore your mana from eldritch thingy, you need to find it (and it tends not to be nearby when you really need it ) and travel to it, which takes a day anyway (or more - depending on your position). Dark ritual specialist - on the other hand - can do it wherever he wants, and the reason I'm "wasting" speciality is that he can gain 200% or even more of his mana.. To blast everything with empowered spells (and warlock's luck) every turn. You don't need to come to your castle, just build level three mage guild and you can teleport your creatures to your hero - mana is not an issue with this hero. Underestimated, but IMO quite worth if you care for earlygame as much as I do.
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TemjinGold
Known Hero
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posted July 04, 2006 08:35 PM |
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This is probably common knowledge but with Blood Furies + Assassins against 2X2 nonshooters, I put the BFs in the corner and the assassins one square diagonal to the BFs. This way, the BFs can still run out and attack but the big 2X2 guys can't reach them because the assassins only allow one square of entry (watch out for imp. griffs tho). Using this with 17 BFs, 26 Assassins, and power of speed (no other spells), I managed to kill ~40 Djinn/Djinn Sultans losing only a few assassins.
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Fuzzier
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 05, 2006 06:23 AM |
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Quote:
This is probably common knowledge but with Blood Furies + Assassins against 2X2 nonshooters, I put the BFs in the corner and the assassins one square diagonal to the BFs. This way, the BFs can still run out and attack but the big 2X2 guys can't reach them because the assassins only allow one square of entry (watch out for imp. griffs tho). Using this with 17 BFs, 26 Assassins, and power of speed (no other spells), I managed to kill ~40 Djinn/Djinn Sultans losing only a few assassins.
Killing Djinns is nothing to be proud of --- we all know that they are eXtraordinarily weak, and they're large thus impossible to block.
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