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| Thread: The religion of all religions | |
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Lady_Milena
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Grannie Sweet Cheeks
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posted July 13, 2006 08:45 PM |
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The religion of all religions
~~This topic would be of particular interest to anyone who's read Jacqueline Carey and her Kushiel saga.~~
Good words, good thought, good deeds.
Have you ever wondered why Judaism, Christianity and Islam (and not only them) have a suspicious number of similarities despite the differences they claim? have you considered how and people people abandoned the panteon of gods and goddesses to worship an only god? Have you thought how come certain religions have come up with the concept of angels and demons, heavens and hell, resurrection?
The simple truth is, well, they didn't. At least in the sense that the new is the forgotten old. Today we know the concepts of the above mentioned religions but nothing about their roots.
These days only a very limited number of people know who they are. Even less are acquainted with their philosophy, history and doctrine. These days, even though the root religion of all religions still exists, they have fallen into obscurity.
They are the Zoroastrianists.
I clap my hands to you if you've ever heard of this long name. I'll call them the Zs for short.
Zoroastrianism originates in Persia. It's based on the teachings of the Propher Zoroaster (Zaratustra). Conservative Zoroastrians assign a date of 6000 BCE to the founding of the religion; other followers estimate 600 BCE. Historians and religious scholars generally date his life sometime between 2000 and 1500 BCE on the basis of his style of writing.
The strongest period of the Zs is during the Achaemenic dynasty and especially the Sassanid dynasty when Zoroastrianism was aggressively promoted. Its decline came when in the 7th century the Arabs invaded Persia and of course Islam became the predominant religion in the area.
During this invasion a number of Zs fled to India and their descendants (called Parsi) now constitute the greatest majority of all Zoroastrianists world-wide.
Since then the sheep and the wolf swapped places. If Christians were persecuted at the time of the Sassanid dynasty, after the invasion the Zs became a subject of mass annihilation. Few were lucky to survive the genocide, the heavy taxation, the discrimination.
Do the Zs still exist? In fact, a very small number of the followers of the oldest monotheist religion still in Iran, India, Pakistan. Some of them have migrated to the USA and Canada. I've ready different accounts on their exact number. Most sources cite between 140,000 to 300,000 Zoroastrianists all over the globe.
The Zs are extraordinary not only because of the ancient origins of their religion but also because of the nature of their beliefs. The latter are summarised mainly in the Avesta, their ancient scriptures (but also other sources).
Their main belief:
There is a single god called Ahura Mazda who is supreme. He's the beginning of everything, the creation, the pure and only truth. The antithesis of Ahura Mazda, the supreme good, is Angra Mainyu, the source of death and violence. It is the opposition of the Truth (asha) vs Lie (druj) [Any fans of Carey's, remember Drujan?] There is also a distinction between the ahuras and the daevas, respectively the "right", the "good" and the "wrong", the "evil" divinities.
This is why their creed is synthesized as "good thoughts, good words, good deeds."
Precepts and principles:
1. Equality. This includes religious, racial, gender equality.
2. Respect and kindness towards all living things. Condemnation of the oppression of human beings, cruelty against animals and sacrifice of animals.
3. Encouragement of charity and discouragement of indolence
4. Loyalty and faithfulness to "family, settlement, tribe, and country."
5. Their holy symbol is fire (and the kusti... but I'm not getting into that).
In other words back when Zarathustra lived and left his teachings to the Persian, they people enjoyed the kind of liberty unseen until a century ago. We're talking 3 millenia ago.
As for the tragic fate of the Zs, the genocide, the hatred contributed the most to it but I think the Zoroastrianists are to blame as well. They do not accept converts into the religion or children of mixed marriages. Unlike the Jews who accept the child as Jewish if the mother is Jewish, the Zs because a child should be born into the religion.
In conclusion to say, just like the Jews, the Zoroastrinists are both followers of their religion and a people. And just like the Jews, there aren't all that many of them left but they make up for number for being genuinely unique.
I also want to put up here a disclaimer. Scholars argue if Judaism influenced Zoroastrianism or it was the other way round and which religion is more ancient. I'm not a scholar and I'm not going into this dispute. I present the facts as I know them.
If you find this interesting, you may want to check this out. 
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God does not need exist to save us...
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russ
Promising
Supreme Hero
blah, blah, blah
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posted July 13, 2006 09:13 PM |
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Edited by russ at 21:24, 13 Jul 2006.
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Interesting topic. I've heard about Zoroastrianism, but this is the first time I actually get to read something about it.
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And just like the Jews, there aren't all that many of them left but they make up for number for being genuinely unique.
"There aren't many Jews left"???
First of all, did you mean religion or nationality? By far now all the Jews (i.e. nationality) actually practise Judaism (i.e. religion).
If you are comparing two religions as opposed to trying to compare a nationality vrs a religion, then FYI: Judaism (i.e. the religion) is the 12-th biggest religion with an estimated 14-15 million followers (I've checked 3 different sources like this one).
Also, according to the same link, Zoroastrianism has 2.6 million followers, but they say this number is still under evaluation. Their numbers have been reevaluated since 1990-s (when their numbers were estimated to what you were saying).
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Lady_Milena
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Grannie Sweet Cheeks
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posted July 13, 2006 09:21 PM |
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I'm afraid I didn't word myself the right way. It's known that unlike say, Islam, Judaism isn't open for everyone and anyone who gets the idea to convert overnight. Just because believers are not flocking to the ranks of either religion does not mean said religions don't have their merits. I hope that clarifies it.
(eh, another edit because I'm cluts tonight. In other words 1. Zoroastrianists are few in number 2. Just like the Jews, they are unique.)
I'm not sure how they came up with this number. I've seen various sites but never ever have I seen anyone put forward more than a million.
And to make another clarification, just like there is no Muslim Jew there is no Muslim Zoroastrianist. They've merged nationality and religion in one.
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God does not need exist to save us...
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russ
Promising
Supreme Hero
blah, blah, blah
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posted July 13, 2006 09:32 PM |
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Edited by russ at 21:34, 13 Jul 2006.
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K, I see what you were saying.
Btw,
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And to make another clarification, just like there is no Muslim Jew there is no Muslim Zoroastrianist. They've merged nationality and religion in one.
Even though there aren't many Muslim Jews or Jewish Muslims (for obvious reasons), there are quite a few who convert between those two religions and Christianity.
If what you were saying was true, we would never have Christianity (the first followers were converted from Judaism) and most likely we wouldn't have Islam either.
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Lady_Milena
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Grannie Sweet Cheeks
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posted July 13, 2006 09:34 PM |
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Eww Russ, who is talking about CONVERTS here? Of course that happens ... but it's really beside the point.
I'm starting to think starting this topic at all was a mistake.
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God does not need exist to save us...
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dkolb
Promising
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Nay Nay and Aslan Protector
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posted August 29, 2006 07:15 AM |
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ah! I'm very fond of zoroastrianism.
If I wasn't a Christian I'd be a zoroastrian.
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Trogdor
Legendary Hero
Words in a custom title
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posted August 30, 2006 12:59 PM |
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The reason Zoroastrianismn is ignored is that they are still angry at a certain Japanese car manufacturer is using the name of their god in as their brand name.
Mazda, I have no problems with your cars but please, change your brand name for the sake of these people.
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"Through the power of the dollar you can communicate with the dead." - Artu
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted August 30, 2006 01:47 PM |
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Edited by baklava at 14:02, 30 Aug 2006.
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First time I've heard of Zoroastrianists was in the expansion for Rome Total War... 
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Since then the sheep and the wolf swapped places. If Christians were persecuted at the time of the Sassanid dynasty, after the invasion the Zs became a subject of mass annihilation. Few were lucky to survive the genocide, the heavy taxation, the discrimination.
Vengeance is mine, sayeth the Lord.
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Precepts and principles:
1. Equality. This includes religious, racial, gender equality.
2. Respect and kindness towards all living things. Condemnation of the oppression of human beings, cruelty against animals and sacrifice of animals.
3. Encouragement of charity and discouragement of indolence
4. Loyalty and faithfulness to "family, settlement, tribe, and country."
Funny how 99% of religions have that as principles and almost none actually follows them.  Remember the crusades, jihads, sassanid martyrdoms, the inquisition, Jewish betrayal of Jesus, the political murders in Vatican and so on and so forth
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Iris
Responsible
Supreme Hero
of Typos
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posted August 30, 2006 11:03 PM |
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Edited by Iris at 23:04, 30 Aug 2006.
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Slightly off topic, but because of this thread, I almost took this class! 
Except it's closed/full. And it doesn't quite fit into my schedule. 
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