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| Thread: Features that never made it to the game |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted July 31, 2006 02:07 PM |
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Features that never made it to the game
Browsing the web I have come across screenshots from ubi's initial plans for heroes 5 as well as posts that mention creatures,different skins and
other effects as the titan's earthshake walk and spectral dragon's incorporeal ability.Even the artwork and the puzzle pictures in the game confirm this.I believe we all know what the original treant looked like.Probably you have seen the firebird from a mod,the green specters,the death knights,the bald clerics with halo,angels with different colours etc.I even found out that haven had a completely different look(in red! ) that was recreated and can be found in elrath.com's modding section.And there is word that some creatures as centaurs,harpies,nagas were to be included as well.How many more have I missed?(Never played the beta) Does anyone know where we can find this missing material?
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted July 31, 2006 04:07 PM |
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Quote:
How many more have I missed?
Crystal Dragons, skyboxes...
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted July 31, 2006 06:23 PM |
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they are not dead yet, they may appear in exp pack. ;p
Spectrals will probably remain crappy for eternity, tho..
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted July 31, 2006 06:28 PM |
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Unless it works partially Triggering less often and taking a portion of the damage inflicted.Wishful thinking...Crystal dragons were as we knew them or completely changed?
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Daystar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
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posted July 31, 2006 07:20 PM |
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sky boxes?
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How exactly is luck a skill?
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Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted July 31, 2006 08:08 PM |
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Edited by Vlaad at 19:43, 02 Aug 2006.
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sky boxes?:?
Yes, the sky background instead of darkness. See my fourth post in this thread (scroll down).
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Betruger
Known Hero
empowered mind
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posted July 31, 2006 09:45 PM |
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The simultanious turns in multiplayer feature. From what I've read, they didn't implement it simply because lack of time. Too bad :/ could have been interesting.
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Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted July 31, 2006 09:49 PM |
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Quote:
The simultanious turns in multiplayer feature. From what I've read, they didn't implement it simply because lack of time. Too bad :/ could have been interesting.
Those WILL be introduced eventually.
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hobowu
Known Hero
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posted August 02, 2006 10:01 AM |
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simultaneous mode will be very very dodgy... connections will have to be upgraded (from ubi.com that is) for example, you click on an enemy hero, and your opponent moves him away at the same time, but then you click the hero, but he's not actually there because he's been moved away but not on your screen yet...
and you'll get people chasing each other in circles...!
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Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted August 02, 2006 10:07 AM |
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Edited by Vlaad at 19:43, 02 Aug 2006.
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simultaneous mode will be very very dodgy... connections will have to be upgraded (from ubi.com that is) for example, you click on an enemy hero, and your opponent moves him away at the same time, but then you click the hero, but he's not actually there because he's been moved away but not on your screen yet...
and you'll get people chasing each other in circles...!
You are probably right. I think it would be best to enable simultaneous turns only in the early game (say, week one). This way the feature would significantly speed up the gameplay but wouldn't cause the aforementioned problems.
It ought to be optional anyway.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted August 02, 2006 12:48 PM |
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Quote:
simultaneous mode will be very very dodgy... connections will have to be upgraded (from ubi.com that is) for example, you click on an enemy hero, and your opponent moves him away at the same time, but then you click the hero, but he's not actually there because he's been moved away but not on your screen yet...
and you'll get people chasing each other in circles...!
The latter need not be a problem. If you click on a target Hero, and he moves, you simply move to the place he occupied. And if you and an enemy Hero want to target each other, you won't run in circle, you'll run towards each other, and combat will be innitiated where you intersect each other.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted August 02, 2006 01:34 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
simultaneous mode will be very very dodgy... connections will have to be upgraded (from ubi.com that is) for example, you click on an enemy hero, and your opponent moves him away at the same time, but then you click the hero, but he's not actually there because he's been moved away but not on your screen yet...
and you'll get people chasing each other in circles...!
The latter need not be a problem. If you click on a target Hero, and he moves, you simply move to the place he occupied. And if you and an enemy Hero want to target each other, you won't run in circle, you'll run towards each other, and combat will be innitiated where you intersect each other.
True enough but one could exploit that feature and simply move 2-3 tiles
to the right or left before being attacked.That is unless he is quick enough to run in the opposite direction.We'll see how things work out in time.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted August 02, 2006 01:54 PM |
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Edited by Vlaad at 22:17, 03 Aug 2006.
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Quote:
Quote:
simultaneous mode will be very very dodgy... connections will have to be upgraded (from ubi.com that is) for example, you click on an enemy hero, and your opponent moves him away at the same time, but then you click the hero, but he's not actually there because he's been moved away but not on your screen yet...
and you'll get people chasing each other in circles...!
The latter need not be a problem. If you click on a target Hero, and he moves, you simply move to the place he occupied. And if you and an enemy Hero want to target each other, you won't run in circle, you'll run towards each other, and combat will be innitiated where you intersect each other.
No, that is precisely the problem.
Imagine you move your hero only to discover your opponent has already gone out of your reach. In that case, you might have made a different strategic decision and moved in a completely opposite direction.
Or you rush out of your town to catch the enemy scout, only to discover he has moved and is able to capture your unprotected town now.
What if at the end of the last turn two heroes of different colors were both a few steps away from reaching a powerful artifact? While it might be more exciting, such a feature would turn Heroes into a semi-RTS. The emphasis would not be on careful planning but fast clicking.
Imagine the exploits against the poor AI! It would never be able to prioritize well enough.
That's why I'd like to see it as an optional feature. It would be best if the player was able to turn it off, just like quick combat.
In campaigns and RPG scenarios (where the AI is controled by mapmakers), it may be a welcome addition.
In multiplayer it would be set in advance or done by the host (if possible). I suggested early game only, because it is the phase when most of the combat is against the neutral AI. In addition, lots of time is spent on recruiting, exploring and building up. When PvP battles start (say, week 2), the simultaneous turns ought to be disabled.
Finally, the fans who don't find it their cup of tea would simply play the classic way.
I understand it will be included in one of the two expansions, which means there will be plenty of time to test the feature thoroughly.
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scooter_me
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 02, 2006 02:26 PM |
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Imagine you move your hero only to discover your opponent has already gone out of your reach. In that case, you might have made a different strategic decision and moved in a completely opposite direction.
well that makes more sense doesn't it? i mean say its day 1 and the first player takes a day to reach an opponent. that would mean that the next player is disadvantaged. i mean you cant possible take an entire day to attack someone, without them having the chance to move at all... it doesnt make much sense.
Quote:
What if at the end of the last turn two heroes of different colors were both a few steps away from reaching a powerful artifact? While it might be more exciting, such a feature would turn Heroes into a semi-RTS. The emphasis would not be on careful planning but fast clicking.
only in close proximity. and the opponent cannot pass you to pick up theartifact without attacking you anyway. heroes cant pass one another easily in this game.
Quote:
Imagine the exploits against the poor AI! It would never be able to prioritize well enough.
they're already dumb enough, exploits like this wont make a difference... i mean its not like you're going to have to be quick to get enemy artifacts. they kill the guardians and leave the artifact there for the rest of thegame anyway.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted August 02, 2006 02:38 PM |
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It seems to me that most of it can be avoided by giving each hero a radius of interaction - so that you can't come closer than say 3 tiles within within his reach, and he'll attack you - much like the wandering creatures of Heroes IV. But of course, it would require some testing to make it work, granted.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted August 02, 2006 03:00 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Imagine you move your hero only to discover your opponent has already gone out of your reach. In that case, you might have made a different strategic decision and moved in a completely opposite direction.
well that makes more sense doesn't it? i mean say its day 1 and the first player takes a day to reach an opponent. that would mean that the next player is disadvantaged. i mean you cant possible take an entire day to attack someone, without them having the chance to move at all... it doesnt make much sense.
Quote:
What if at the end of the last turn two heroes of different colors were both a few steps away from reaching a powerful artifact? While it might be more exciting, such a feature would turn Heroes into a semi-RTS. The emphasis would not be on careful planning but fast clicking.
only in close proximity. and the opponent cannot pass you to pick up theartifact without attacking you anyway. heroes cant pass one another easily in this game.
You are crazy!If the hero is 5 tiles away he could just go out of reach because it would take a day for the other to catch him?Or maybe heroes should divide days in hours and minutes and maybe add fatigue too?Why not after moving such distances,hmm? A tbs cannot work as real life or even rts.Or maybe while your powerful hero attacks a scout with 1 peasant he sidesteps then takes your castle!That should make sense to you too.I am not against this feature(have even played with it in age of wonders) but it can cause some problems and should not be considered logical-it's not meant to be.Close proximity?As if that would not be enough?Consider real time alliances to cut off enemy paths or two heroes hunting another together.A nightmare...
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted August 02, 2006 04:41 PM |
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Edited by Vlaad at 16:43, 02 Aug 2006.
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Quote:
Quote:
Imagine you move your hero only to discover your opponent has already gone out of your reach. In that case, you might have made a different strategic decision and moved in a completely opposite direction.
well that makes more sense doesn't it? i mean say its day 1 and the first player takes a day to reach an opponent. that would mean that the next player is disadvantaged. i mean you cant possible take an entire day to attack someone, without them having the chance to move at all... it doesnt make much sense.
I agree with Elvin. "It makes more sense"? Don't get me started! There are lots of things in Heroes that don't "make sense", but some of them are precisely what makes this game unique. But you are missing the point: this is a TBS, not RTS. Planning is essential, fast clicking is not. If a feature can speed up the game, it is welcome - but not if it interferes with the basic mechanics of the game.Quote:
Quote:
What if at the end of the last turn two heroes of different colors were both a few steps away from reaching a powerful artifact? While it might be more exciting, such a feature would turn Heroes into a semi-RTS. The emphasis would not be on careful planning but fast clicking.
only in close proximity. and the opponent cannot pass you to pick up theartifact without attacking you anyway. heroes cant pass one another easily in this game.
Heroes do not have to pass each other - they can come from completely opposite directions. You are simply not taking all the possibilities into account.Quote:
Quote:
Imagine the exploits against the poor AI! It would never be able to prioritize well enough.
they're already dumb enough, exploits like this wont make a difference... i mean its not like you're going to have to be quick to get enemy artifacts. they kill the guardians and leave the artifact there for the rest of thegame anyway.
The AI should be improved, not ruined completely.
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Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted August 02, 2006 04:47 PM |
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It seems to me that most of it can be avoided by giving each hero a radius of interaction - so that you can't come closer than say 3 tiles within within his reach, and he'll attack you - much like the wandering creatures of Heroes IV. But of course, it would require some testing to make it work, granted.
Interesting.
How many tiles is enough, though? Heroes can have great movement and 3 steps still doesn't eliminate the advantage of faster clicking.
In addition, not every situation would represent the interaction of two heroes.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted August 02, 2006 06:02 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
It seems to me that most of it can be avoided by giving each hero a radius of interaction - so that you can't come closer than say 3 tiles within within his reach, and he'll attack you - much like the wandering creatures of Heroes IV. But of course, it would require some testing to make it work, granted.
Interesting.
How many tiles is enough, though? Heroes can have great movement and 3 steps still doesn't eliminate the advantage of faster clicking.
In addition, not every situation would represent the interaction of two heroes.
The thing is that if you make it more than 3 tiles it would feel...unnatural.I mean How many movement points would one waste to pass by an opponent hero?And attacking someone that far from you...It would either mean you attack him from a distance and when the battle ends you are away from the field of battle or you would have to move there thus occupying a different tile than the one you finished on the previous day.The latter cannot be implemented because having a scout around your main,you could make the opponent move for even a few tiles in the opposite direction by attacking with the scout to gain distance.I only wish that simultaneous rounds would work only when there were no enemy heroes in the vicinity(say 20' radious or more) and when that happened the game would revert to turns.It would speed up the game while not creating tension between players.If only...
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Betruger
Known Hero
empowered mind
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posted August 03, 2006 12:21 AM |
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.I only wish that simultaneous rounds would work only when there were no enemy heroes in the vicinity(say 20' radious or more) and when that happened the game would revert to turns.It would speed up the game while not creating tension between players.If only...
Yeah, but it also has a downside. It'd be like free scouting. Something like "Aha! the game went to standard turns mode, so enemy hero is nearby".
On the other hand, if this radius you are talking about would be smaller than 2 days of heroes' travel, then faster clicker could still have an advantage for example when racing towards an artifact that is placed between heroes.
So it appears that sim turns are not so easy to implement.
I think the perfect solution would be to give a map-maker possibility to set the duration of sim turns.
For example: let the sim turns run for 3 weeks on Dragon Pass, and perhaps 1 week on Last Hope.
Then it's back to normal turns.
It could really speed things up on most of maps, because the begining consumes a lot of time usually.
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