|
| Thread: George W. Bush: The right man, at the right time for the tough job! |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 · «PREV / NEXT» |
|
Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
|
posted September 24, 2006 08:54 AM |
|
|
Not everyone who criticizes Bush is a liberal. Far from it.
Speaking as a registered Republican of 25 years, I think Bush is a total idiot. And there are a LOT of Republicans who feel the same way.
Some of the stupid things he has done are forgivable and might heal with time. But the invasion of a sovereign nation is NOT forgivable. When they were first talking about invading, I couldn't believe what I was hearing. All I thought was "these guys CAN'T be serious can they?", but they were serious. Iraq wasn't some "police action". It wasn't something we were invited to like some of the military actions. It wasn't a quick in-and-out action to accomplish some easy objective. It wasn't sanctioned by the UN or NATO. It was an outright full scale invasion of another country which was not even a direct threat to this country. And the idiots even managed to botch that up.
Bush turned half the world against us and made the other half question how the people in this country could elect such a idiot. The President's main job is foreign affairs. Yea, great job at foreign affairs when he turns so many people against us.
The guy is delusional. He seems to have some imaginary fantasy about the world and about people. When the average person uses a little common sense and can see things as obvious, Bush somehow manages to do just the opposite. And then he can't figure out what went wrong.....that's not the way it was supposed to happen in his little fantasy world.
Trogdor is right, the Republican party has fallen apart. The good ones are gone, and have been replaced by fundamentalist idiots. It all started/ended with Newt and his gang. And it's gone down hill ever since. Idealism is fine, whether its liberal or conservative idealism. But it's only fine when the difference between idealism and reality is well understood. The leadership of the Republican party has gotten too caught up in their fundamentalist idealism and lost touch with reality in the process.
Bush is an idiot, and so are the rest of the Republican leadership. And they are going to get hurt very badly if they keep it up. I've been a Republican for 25 years and I seriously think about leaving the party. They sure don't represent me any more. And I know people who have been Republicans over 50 years who are thinking the same thing. They DO NOT represent the American people. They don't even represent the Republicans on the street.
____________
|
|
Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
|
|
posted September 24, 2006 09:02 AM |
|
|
Whoever supports bush also supports the deaths of so many.
Starting from 9/11 all the way to today.
This thread is garbage.
I do enjoy reading it though 
Thats my opinion.
____________
Dreaming of a Better World
|
|
muerte
Adventuring Hero
|
posted September 24, 2006 09:55 AM |
|
Edited by muerte at 10:49, 24 Sep 2006.
|
Quote:
Whoever supports Bush also supports the deaths of so many.
Starting from 9/11 all the way to today.
An interesting philosophy.
I also support the actions of many previous U.S. presidents and other world leaders such as George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, Franklin Roosevelt, along with Winston Churchill, Henry V, and to some degree Napolean and a few more.
It seems my soul may never be cleansed of the millions of cumulative deaths those men are responsible for; that I must now also assume responsibility for; according to the decree of the mighty Aculias! 
How will I live with myself? 
More Americans lost their lives at Antietem in one day of fighting than the combined Iraqi and American deaths over the course of the last 3 years. And that; too; was a war for freedom.
Come to think of it, more people worldwide have lost their lives because of automobile accidents over the last 3 years than the combined total deaths in the Iraq war!
I guess I should have those deaths on my conscious also, since I support the automobile as a means of transportaion!?
In other words, a little perspective goes a long way.
As an aside Aculias, I would be interested to hear why you think this thread is garbage?
Is it because you disagree with me?
Not that I mind if you do disagree, but it says alot about a person who assumes that a different opinion from their own is automatically garbage.
just my 2 cents
|
|
Xarfax111
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
|
|
posted September 24, 2006 01:18 PM |
|
|
Quote:
..... And that; too; was a war for freedom.
erm yes "for freedom" sure
Quote:
Come to think of it, more people worldwide have lost their lives because of automobile accidents over the last 3 years than the combined total deaths in the Iraq war!
Is that the way you are thinking?
Ok sorry but noone can help you....youve serious brain problems.
____________
|
|
angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
|
|
posted September 24, 2006 01:32 PM |
|
|
I heard even more people died of consenescence all around the world on this famous september morning than due to the WTC crash. So we blame "god" for giving us such a poor genetic code?
Binabik is right here with his first statement. I can't remember we "germans" had a worse picture of the americans than since Bush is president. Sad but true, we "project" all the bad behaviour and brainless actions of Bush onto the whole population, because u elected him. You even elected him TWICE!!
Hopefully u've learned your lessons and be more carefull in your election choice next time..
____________
Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
|
|
bjorn190
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jebus maker
|
|
posted September 24, 2006 03:17 PM |
|
|
Guys, be nice to him. It seems that he has "allied" himeself with the president, and power, in his mind, so that he can believe that they are on the same side. I doubt the agenda of the powerful are in his best interests tho. But if it makes him happy, why not? Its like drugs - fun now, sucks later.
Id say this is a classical bush crack addiction. Kids -dont do drugs
|
|
muerte
Adventuring Hero
|
|
posted September 24, 2006 07:14 PM |
|
Edited by muerte at 19:29, 24 Sep 2006.
|
Quote:
Is that the way you are thinking?
Ok sorry but noone can help you....youve serious brain problems.
Quote:
I heard even more people died of consenescence all around the world on this famous september morning than due to the WTC crash.
Quote:
Id say this is a classical bush crack addiction. Kids -dont do drugs
Why am I not surprised. 
Whenever opposition opinions are confronted with facts that they cannot 'wish away' they inevitably lash out with lame insults and other inanity. I could easily brush aside such things; since I'm fairly thick skinned; if you had anything real to add besides this. But you don't.
I've made my point here.
I do want to thank all the people that responded to this thread in a more dignified way; we may not have agreed; but I do respect your points of view.
|
|
privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
|
|
posted September 24, 2006 07:50 PM |
|
|
Quote:
I made this thread to express my opinion of G.W.B. What is wrong with calling people liberals or conservatives?
Well firstly you can't possibly know enough about a person based on a short series of lines to define their entire political viewpoint. Secondly when you say things like "More typical rhetoric from an ignorant liberal" or your suggestion that Liberals are incapable of common sense or even the remark that they are somehow mental slaves of the media you are showing a tendency to associate certain trends or traits with the term. In a similar way Xarfax's way off base comments about you having Nazi like thoughts are not only almost certainly completely wrong but cannot possibly be concluded from what little you have written on the forum so far.
Perahps you think its perfectly fine to judge someone with terms when they are clearly used as veiled insults, I don't. Some of the posters here do appear to fit the bill of your "typical liberal" however.
Quote:
I have another word for you to research the definition of: debate.
Again because?
Perhaps you should look up arrogance, you display it every time you presume that others do not understand certain concepts.
Quote:
All you have done; privatehudson; is post off-topic commentary on my style of responses, and if that is all you came here for you are certainly welcome to stop reading or posting in this thread. No one is forcing you to do so.
I come and go as I choose, I comment on what I find interesting, talking of which
Quote:
More Americans lost their lives at Antietem in one day of fighting than the combined Iraqi and American deaths over the course of the last 3 years.
Hmmm
Last I checked the Military losses suffered by the US had gone past 2500 - see http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13237981/ which is back in June 2006.
That means that unless civilian losses are less than 1100 this is an innacurate claim since only 3654 died during the battle of Antietam - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Antietam.
So lets look at this article - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A7967-2004Oct28.html. Regardless of the validity of the 100,000 figure you'll note the sentence "Previous independent estimates of civilian deaths in Iraq were far lower, never exceeding 16,000. Other experts immediately challenged the new estimate, saying the small number of documented deaths upon which it was based make the conclusions suspect."
That's 16,000, not 1600 so even allowing for a margin of error I think that your claim is incorrect. Hard to get exact figures on civilian losses since the Pentagon don't keep them.
Admitedly this could be seen as being rather pedantic but History is my thing, mention it and you'd better be damn sure you get it right
____________
We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
|
|
muerte
Adventuring Hero
|
|
posted September 25, 2006 01:07 AM |
|
Edited by muerte at 01:52, 25 Sep 2006.
|
Quote:
Last I checked the Military losses suffered by the US had gone past 2500 - see http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13237981/ which is back in June 2006.
I admit I erred by including the Iraqi casualties in my claim about the battle of Antietem. I should have left it at my original point about American casualties.
When I'm wrong I say I'm wrong.
That; in no way; invalidates my point about the number of lives lost over the course of a 3 year war versus casualties from past conflicts. It isn't hard to find single battle death tolls from previous wars that exceed the Iraqi grand total, even though Antietem wasn't one of them.
The death toll in Iraq; while admitedly regretable, but in my opinion necesary; is amazingly low for a conflict of this size and duration.
@xarfax111: Your post makes no sense, other than to prove you are incapable of following simple points. If english isn't your first language I suggest you get your money back from whomever taught it to you, they left huge gaps in your education. If english is your first language then there are clearly huge gaps in your intelligence.
Here is a piece of friendly advice though: you could probably benefit from anger management class.
|
|
privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
|
|
posted September 25, 2006 01:53 AM |
|
|
My personal feeling is that the number of casualties likely to be considered heavy during wartime varies depending on the situation at the time. Take the Civil War for example, when the casualty returns for 1st Manassas/Bull Run came back people were horrified to learn that nearly 5000 people had become casualties in one relatively short battle. Grant's losses at Shiloh (just over 13,000 of which 1754 were killed) had a big hand in getting him sidelined shortly after. Throw in the figure that the south lost (10,694 of which 1723 were dead) and you have more casualties in two days of fighting than in the Revolutionary, 1812 and Mexican wars put together. People were understandably horrified by this turn of events. By the time of the likes of Antietam or Gettysburg however both sides had come to understand the true nature of the war and just what it would cost each to fight it. Most importantly though the two populations were within reason willing to pay that price.
However I think comparing modern war casualties with much older wars is a fruitless exercise because the military, political and social situations are not alike. If people have less tolerance to military losses today it is primarily because of the climate that most of our recent wars have been fought in. People naturally question whether the cost of fighting the war is worth the results that will come from it, or justified by the reasoning given to them for it being necessary.
Iraq has been a costly affair. Many people are not happy about this nor the explanation of why it was necessary. Whether the results will justify that cost, and whether the people are willing to continue to pay the price remains to be seen.
____________
We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
|
|
friendofgunnar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
able to speed up time
|
|
posted September 25, 2006 10:48 AM |
|
|
Quote:
Come to think of it, more people worldwide have lost their lives because of automobile accidents over the last 3 years than the combined total deaths in the Iraq war!
Just to clear a few things up:
Total United States Traffic Fatalities 2003: 42,643
source
Extrapolation of deaths for 2003, March through December 2003 31,982
Total United States Traffic Fatalities 2004: 42,636
source
Total United States Traffic Fatalities 2005: 43,443
source
Extrapolation of deaths for 2006, Jan through August:28,959
Total Traffic Fatalities from March 2003 to August 2006 in America: 147,020
Total Wartime American Fatalities from March 2003 to August 2006 in Iraq: 2702
source
The Land Area of United States is: 9,631,420 km2
The Land Area of Iraq is: 438,317 km2
American traffic fatalities per thousand square kilometers in America from March 2003 to August 2006: 15
American wartime fatalities per thousand square kilometers in Iraq from March 2003 to August 2006: 6
|
|
bjorn190
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jebus maker
|
|
posted September 25, 2006 07:21 PM |
|
|
Quote:
The Land Area of United States is: 9,631,420 km2
The Land Area of Iraq is: 438,317 km2
American traffic fatalities per thousand square kilometers in America from March 2003 to August 2006: 15
American wartime fatalities per thousand square kilometers in Iraq from March 2003 to August 2006: 6
How about if u adjust the statistics for number of americans present in the countries? How many of all americans in the USA died of car accidents, and how many of the americans in iraq died from the war?
|
|
muerte
Adventuring Hero
|
|
posted September 25, 2006 07:23 PM |
|
Edited by muerte at 00:46, 29 Sep 2006.
|
[removed by poster as inflamatory and unnecesary]
Have a nice day.
|
|
pandora
Honorable
Legendary Hero
The Chosen One
|
|
posted September 26, 2006 12:06 AM |
|
Edited by pandora at 01:12, 26 Sep 2006.
|
Initially I thought "looks like all grown ups, so I won't start with the mod - stuff here" but enough is enough already.
Lets keep our discussion on topic please, and refrain from making unneccessary personal attacks.
____________
"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
|
|
Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
|
posted September 26, 2006 02:18 AM |
|
|
Too Bad . . .
PrivateHudson hasn't posted in so long. It's a pity that he stop now. Pandora, I feel like he doesn't post at Heroes Community unless he's arguing with someone. (i.e. raising the emotional bar of a of an otherwise dull discussion) Couldn't we let him go a little bit longer before hitting the "off" switch? Pretty please! With cookies and sugar on top???
Sorry Muerte but you, like myself when I first joined, might think PrivateHudson is singling you out. Don't feel insulted. He really is an exceptional poster of whom needs practically no introduction. He's just a bit edgy with his British sarcasm and wit that's all. I'd say it usually takes about a year to warm up to him. In real life, I think he's a very genuine person with a warm heart. Try giving him a small benefit of the doubt and you'll see. Trust me on this one. He's a good egg.
____________
Roses Are Red And So Am I
|
|
privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
|
|
posted September 26, 2006 02:44 AM |
|
|
I haven't made any personal attacks, no off switch required.
As for the road traffic comparison I again find that a spurious point. More people dying on America's road is a concern for the people responsible for road safety. More than 2700 people dying in a modern conflict is a concern for everyone but how you address it depends on your view of the conflict.
____________
We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
|
|
pandora
Honorable
Legendary Hero
The Chosen One
|
|
posted September 26, 2006 02:45 AM |
|
|
Consis, I wasn't referring to PH here.
____________
"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
|
|
Vadskye91
Promising
Supreme Hero
Back again
|
|
posted September 26, 2006 03:24 AM |
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
*snippage*
Well, I've let you insult me a couple of times without responding in kind, but you earned this one:
Actually, didn't you say he was "incapable of following simple points" and that he was either stupid or ignorant? That would, in fact, be responding in kind.
Quote:
Assuming you've proven credible enough to be believed about your language boast ( which you have not ) and that I am gullible enough to take someones word from just internet postings ( which I am not ) all your statement would mean is that you are perfectly capable of making your stupidity clear to people in 5 different langauges!
Wouldn't that be a needless personal attack with no relevance to the actual issue?
Typical Republican.
Quote:
As to my "American-Arrogance" I've heard that statement before, it always comes from people whose countries have shot their intellectual and cultural wad a long time ago, with no contribution from themselves or family members, and are currently experiencing the vast national shame spiral that comes from knowing that their countries may once have been great because their ancestors did great things, but that it can never happen again because now they are populated by genetic "dead ends" like yourself.
Actually, that would be a perfect exampe of American Arrogance at its best. Or worst. By assuming that the only people who say that are stupid, useless, and so on, you have just proved the point he made better than he ever could. Congrats.
And before you get started on me, I'm American too. Just for the record.
Quote:
I see now that I was not wrong about you needing 'anger management' class. But it is becoming increasingly clear that you also require self esteem and the ability to post coherently in whatever language you choose.
*coughcoughpersonalattackcoughcough*
Quote:
Have a nice day.
 You just insulted him repeatedly, and then you smile? What the @#$%?
And now... *obligatory personal attack*.
So there.
____________
Knowledge is power...
|
|
Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
|
|
posted September 26, 2006 05:00 AM |
|
|
Quote:
I heard even more people died of consenescence all around the world on this famous september morning than due to the WTC crash. So we blame "god" for giving us such a poor genetic code?
Binabik is right here with his first statement. I can't remember we "germans" had a worse picture of the americans than since Bush is president. Sad but true, we "project" all the bad behaviour and brainless actions of Bush onto the whole population, because u elected him. You even elected him TWICE!!
Hopefully u've learned your lessons and be more carefull in your election choice next time..
Many think that Bush altered the votes so it would be in his favor.
Everyone I know even out of California did not vote for Bush.
Also I think many people wanted action also, especially the people in the war AT THAT TIME.
They finally get some real action in war & they had to keep Bush in to do so.
____________
Dreaming of a Better World
|
|
muerte
Adventuring Hero
|
|
posted September 26, 2006 04:15 PM |
|
Edited by muerte at 17:54, 26 Sep 2006.
|
Quote:
Actually, didn't you say he was "incapable of following simple points" and that he was either stupid or ignorant? That would, in fact, be responding in kind.
This is my whole quote to Xarfax111:
Quote:
@xarfax111: Your post makes no sense, other than to prove you are incapable of following simple points. If english isn't your first language I suggest you get your money back from whomever taught it to you, they left huge gaps in your education. If english is your first language then there are clearly huge gaps in your intelligence.
Here is a piece of friendly advice though: you could probably benefit from anger management class.
His post didn't make sense, he didn't follow my points and his grammer, syntax, spelling and wild leaps in "logic" left no doubt to me that he was incapable of using the english language correctly for whichever of the two reasons I gave. I neither called him ignorant nor stupid. [ By the way, the post that this refers to from Xarfax111 has actually been removed, either voluntarily or otherwise }
Quote:
Wouldn't that be a needless personal attack with no relevance to the actual issue?
Typical Republican.
A person can only be expected to absorb just so much abuse before they respond. And I allowed him several personal attacks; including classifying me as a Nazi; that went unanswered. So if defending myself after being permissive; but only to a certain point; typifies the Republican attitude than I have no problem with your statement.
Quote:
Actually, that would be a perfect exampe of American Arrogance at its best. Or worst. By assuming that the only people who say that are stupid, useless, and so on, you have just proved the point he made better than he ever could. Congrats.
It was intended to be insulting! I made no bones about that. Please reread the statement I gave at the begining of that post.
There is a growing trend among some internet posters, especially when their arguments ( if they even have any ) are proven vacuous, incoherent, baseless, or uselessly insulting; to throw down the vaunted statement which usually reads: "mommy he insulted me back so therefore he must be one of those 'ugly Americans' you know the kind that won't relent to me just because I wish he would."
Those types of responders usually think that since they played the "he's an ugly American" card it invalidates every point their target has made, while simultaneously excusing flames they've thrown.
I don't accept that. And neither should any other self respecting person no matter what country they are from.
Quote:
And before you get started on me, I'm American too. Just for the record.Quote:
Why would I start on you? Are you one of those "ugly Americans"?
Quote:
*coughcoughpersonalattackcoughcough*
Once again it was fully intentional and not disguised as anything less.
Quote:
You just insulted him repeatedly, and then you smile? What the @#$%?
Yep, I'm still smiling. He brought it on himself by constantly egging me on.
Quote:
And now... *obligatory personal attack*.
So there.
Wrong, no personal attack, just the previously posted explanation.
I have no problem with people being facetious, or incisive and maybe even a bit insulting to me in the due course of posting credible opposition opinions to my arguments. I have even proven myself capable of withdrawing when my facts are incorrect. But insulting me just for the sake of insulting me is going to eventually draw my ire.
@Consis: I have no problem with 'privatehudson' other than the same problem I have with anyone that joins a thread solely to post off topic spam. He actually responded on topic eventually and redeemed himself a bit imho.
Speaking of which:
Quote:
As for the road traffic comparison I again find that a spurious point. More people dying on America's road is a concern for the people responsible for road safety. More than 2700 people dying in a modern conflict is a concern for everyone but how you address it depends on your view of the conflict.
The road traffic comparison was used to show a general lack of perspective about the situation.
I find it ironic and insincere when anti-war protesters can say they care so very deeply about the lives of even one soldier and march ( supposedly ) on their behalf ( keep in mind these are men and women that volunteered and trained in order to place themselves in exactly the situation they are in now, not some poor duped foals fresh out of the doe's womb ) while all they can say when they hear that a Corvette smashed into a Suburban killing all involved is how they would really love to own a Corvette or a Suburban?
It's disingenuous for people to claim they are anti-war because the deaths are so 'senseless' all the while remaining either oblivious or uncaring about every other form of 'senseless' death; even when the casualties are greater than those from war. And that's the extent of that point. It wasn't some misguided attempt of mine to beguile people into thinking that war is better than General Motors.
|
| |
|
|
