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| Thread: Is there good and evil in Heroes 5? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 · NEXT» |
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted January 17, 2007 09:00 AM |
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Is there good and evil in Heroes 5?
if you think about it, there isn't!
sylvan, for instance. treehuggers and all that, but they tried to wipe out the dark elves on any excuse.
academy, enlightened, yes. but they also keep slaves in the form of gremlins.
haven, holy, of course. fanatically holy, with intent to kill anyone who doesn't believe in their god.
so, is there good and evil in heroes 5?
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Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted January 17, 2007 11:53 AM |
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That's good, actually! As in the real world: you'll never meet a trully GOOD person, everyone has a bit of evil inside.. and everyone thinks mostly about himself.
Well, maybe Jesus was trully good, but except him, evil is in us, and so it is in heroes5 world 
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted January 17, 2007 12:06 PM |
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academy, enlightened, yes. but they also keep slaves in the form of gremlins.
Lol since when does "enlightened" mean "good" eh? 
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haven, holy, of course. fanatically holy, with intent to kill anyone who doesn't believe in their god.
Only their Griffin is good
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so, is there good and evil in heroes 5?
This should be reexpressed as "pure good" in H5..
There are some pure good elves  , as are some pure evil demons. 
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted January 17, 2007 12:06 PM |
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Are you kidding me? Of course there is but in the sense of generally benevolent or malevolent. These 'evil' choices you mention have roots in politics, the then current leaders and diplomacy. The worst things can be done even by the best people as it is in human(or not) nature.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted January 17, 2007 03:28 PM |
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I think it's excellent thing, that there's not exactly good and evil.
It's much more real and more mature, because as the other people said, there's nothing that is really purely good or evil.
And if you think well: What's the different between good and evil?
The good person thinks he's good and the evil thinks he's good.
The evil calls evil to the good and the good calls evil to the evil.
And nobody rights.
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted January 17, 2007 03:36 PM |
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Well...
Good = to care for others, for everything (including things), to help others, etc..
Evil = to destroy things, to bring the end of the world (apocalypse), etc..
Tyrann evil = to dominate & enslave others
See the difference?
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Loco_Blutaxt
Adventuring Hero
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posted January 17, 2007 03:56 PM |
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"There's no black and white.
There's never one way
to do it right."
Sick of it all
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Istari
Known Hero
Truth Teller, ToH
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posted January 17, 2007 04:45 PM |
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I think it's excellent thing, that there's not exactly good and evil.
It's much more real and more mature, because as the other people said, there's nothing that is really purely good or evil.
And if you think well: What's the different between good and evil?
The good person thinks he's good and the evil thinks he's good.
The evil calls evil to the good and the good calls evil to the evil.
And nobody rights.
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"There's no black and white.
There's never one way
to do it right."
Wow, very relitivistic thinking. I see you are both greatly influenced by popular philosophy.
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Well...
Good = to care for others, for everything (including things), to help others, etc..
Evil = to destroy things, to bring the end of the world (apocalypse), etc..
Tyrann evil = to dominate & enslave others
See the difference?
That sounds much closer to true, though other's may disagree with your definitions of good and evil.
Good and Evil are real things and do really exist. The fact that human's cannot be perfectly good does not mean that good does not exist. We often live in shades of grey not because Good and Evil don't exist but because they do exist and in fact are present in each and every one of us fighting in us to be expressed through our actions. Malicious rape or murder is not good even if some choose to call it so, just like calling a river a rock does not make it a rock. It is true that people disagree about what is good and what is evil, but that does not mean that everyone must be right... regardless of what philosophy 101 may teach you, you can be wrong.
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Opinions are immunity to being told you're wrong.
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Shauku83
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted January 17, 2007 04:54 PM |
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Good and Evil are real things and do really exist.
You claimed it, now you prove it. First you said that people don't agree what is good or eveil, but then you say there are definite good and a definite evil.. So, you can start by defining Good and Evil.
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Istari
Known Hero
Truth Teller, ToH
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posted January 17, 2007 06:21 PM |
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For this forum I would be content if people saw that there was a definate good and evil. Trying to pin an exact definition on such things usually just leads to arguement and the false conclusion that sense we can't agree it must not exist. I will openly admit that I do not know all there is to know about good and evil and cannot possible present any sort of final defining word on the subject. But if you must have my opinion on the subject you will see it is rooted in my understanding of Christianity, a fact that I do not try to hide.
The trinity God is good. He created all that is and is himself utterly good. The good that God is, is translated into human action through Jesus Christ. So when we are in alignment with Jesus we are good. Evil then is anything not in alignment with Jesus. However this makes good impossible because no one can perfectly live as Jesus lived. That is why Jesus took our sins on the cross, to create a new way to be good. Now what is good is admitting your evil and giving it to Jesus, and what is evil is denying your evil and saying that it is either good or does not exist. We all have evil in us, but what makes us either evil or good is what we do about it.
I'm sure that most of you will feel preached at and that Christian theology rubs you like sandpaper on soft skin. Just remember, you asked me a question and I answered it.
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Opinions are immunity to being told you're wrong.
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Shauku83
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted January 17, 2007 06:57 PM |
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For this forum I would be content if people saw that there was a definate good and evil.
Why is that important to you?
I have respect for your openness in the religion, and as I know christian definitions of good and evil, there is no need for you to tell them anymore. That actually was the point, good and evil are religios consepts and exist mainly there. Thinking about the definition of "evil" outside religious frame becomes a task not that easy.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted January 17, 2007 07:59 PM |
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Not that much. You don't have to think in religious terms to feel that something is good or evil. While a person will almost never be in either side we can usually classify him as generally good or evil. And not in the things that matter to him or can backfire in any possible way.
Will he step on other people to get his prize? Will he play by the rules or try to backstab his enemies and maybe friends? How does he view the society? Does he care about anything that is not related to him?
A person is ultimately an accumulated pile of choices some good some evil. If he generally acts in a benevolent way and does not intentionally harm others whether he is cold, hates others or does not explain himself he is a good person. I believe it depends on what your heart sais.
On the other side if you are amoral, hurt others intentionally for gain without having a greater reason(could be to save someone or protect innocents) etc you are generally evil.
It's all about motivation and how you act according to it. You may dislike someone but you don't have to hurt him. You can help someone but then blackmail him. Darker areas which cannot be truly considered evil. Ultimately your choice will show what you are but it's not that you will become it when you act. You already have general guidelines and act within some frames. It's also them one needs to know if he is to judge.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted January 17, 2007 08:14 PM |
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wow, we're doing a lot of philosophy here..
I'd like to add up some points. The definition of good and evil is more difficult than you think without religion, in fact.
say..
"to be good: to obey the laws" - and what if the laws force you to do something morally wrong?
"to be good: please everyone around" - including murderers, rapists and so on?
"to be evil: do whatever makes other suffer" - What about soldiers, policemen etc? They make people suffer more often than not.
relativity, you know.
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Shauku83
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted January 17, 2007 08:33 PM |
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Edited by Shauku83 at 20:36, 17 Jan 2007.
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Not that much. You don't have to think in religious terms to feel that something is good or evil. While a person will almost never be in either side we can usually classify him as generally good or evil. And not in the things that matter to him or can backfire in any possible way.
Will he step on other people to get his prize?
This is evil? Isn’t that how nature works, survival of the fittest. Is nature evil?
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Will he play by the rules or try to backstab his enemies and maybe friends?
Rules are always good?
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How does he view the society?
What has society got to do with goodness?
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Does he care about anything that is not related to him?
Could you specify? Does this mean for example volunteer work for those in need etc. I doubt anyone would do it, unless it made them feel good about themselves. All is related to yourself, one way or another.
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A person is ultimately an accumulated pile of choices some good some evil. If he generally acts in a benevolent way and does not intentionally harm others whether he is cold, hates others or does not explain himself he is a good person. I believe it depends on what your heart sais.
Heart is as tricky as the mind (they are the same actually in this context) Many things can program you to feel that by doing it you are doing the right thing, when in reality you are all the opposite.
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On the other side if you are amoral, hurt others intentionally for gain without having a greater reason(could be to save someone or protect innocents) etc you are generally evil.
Or are you just amoral?
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Istari
Known Hero
Truth Teller, ToH
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posted January 17, 2007 08:48 PM |
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Shauku83- I have answered your question, now perhaps you will answer mine. What are your definitions of good and evil? You seem content on challenging other people's answers but not providing anything to replace them. Being a critic is easy, being a thinker is hard.
ps. I'd appreciate it even more if you don't cop out and say there isn't a definition. Of cource you don't have all the answers, but I'd like to hear your opinion.
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Opinions are immunity to being told you're wrong.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted January 17, 2007 08:57 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 21:00, 17 Jan 2007.
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This is evil? Isn’t that how nature works, survival of the fittest. Is nature evil?
Rules are always good?
What has society got to do with goodness?
Could you specify? Does this mean for example volunteer work for those in need etc. I doubt anyone would do it, unless it made them feel good about themselves. All is related to yourself, one way or another.
Or are you just amoral?
Nature has no need for such terms, it's a human thing. And no I would not consider killing for your life an evil act.
Rules no but backstabbing someone while you could have faced him openly is certainly not that good.
I did not clarify these examples as good or evil just placed them as available choices to proceed with my thinking. I didn't plan it that much so if you think I'm unclear feel free to ask.
Society? Everything. If your actions harm your neighbours and disrupt their ways of life, if you deceive others into believing something is right to see them hurt are some examples. Of course it depends on what we are talking about as in some cases this can be a mere nuisance or something really serious. Depends if you see the society as yours for the picking and the lives of those involved unimportant and expendable.
In caring I do not include volunteering and such. It is an expression of it but there are many reasons why one doesn't volunteer which may have nothing to do with caring. I mean it in the sense if you give a damn about people who die out there or if you wish to prevent unpleasant happenings for others. Helping a stranger I would consider a good deed though it could be something utterly stupid as the consequences could outweigh this single act. Depends but on principle I deem it good.
Well now I could be. Or not  Not as easy to judge a person behind a screen, is it? *chuckles evilly*
Edit: Being amoral is linked to evil in my opinion if that answers your question. To an extent of course as it's natural not to care about some things.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted January 17, 2007 09:08 PM |
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Well, actually, imo good and evil are defined by society.
In ancient days killing was not an amoral thing to do, I'm not saying it was a good thing (maybe it was I don't know), but in certain societies it certainly wasn't evil.
After the Jews introduced their moral code and religious beliefs to the world and after the Christians added a bit more and spread it everywhere the concepts of good and evil became more or less the same everywhere and that's basically what we have now.
Except that now people are less affected by religion, and many people, for instance, don't think it is wrong to lie, cheat and trumple the weak to get ahead in life, because that is how the world is built nowadays.
So, in conclusion, if you're in Rome - act like a Roman, if you're on Earth - act like an Earther, if you're in Ashan - then I'm controlling your life and will probably kill you off in the next battle.
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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Shauku83
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted January 17, 2007 09:08 PM |
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Well that is the thing, they are subjective conseptions, they are defined by time and place. "Such things as please us, we denominate good, those which displease us, evil."
Evil is an ultimatum. Therefore it is suitable to conseptions as Devil or the sort. When speaking of humans, it has no merit. Humans are complex in nature and cannot be defined by such ultimate words. It is better to speak about ethics and morality.
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted January 17, 2007 09:25 PM |
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lets see, i started this this morning, and find, this evening, that its got seventeen posts alread, without me being here.
i think i have got the message!
my veiw is that there are always two sides to the coin, dependent on people point of veiw. Sylvan are veiwed as treehuggers and people who want to make the world green by force! dungeon are pictured both as slavers and freedom fighter (fighting against the domination of the dwarves and the wood elves). inferno have been imprisoned, but for no reason apart from the fact that they are demons, therefore, suposedly, bad!
see, two sides to every coin!
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Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted January 17, 2007 09:32 PM |
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inferno have been imprisoned, but for no reason apart from the fact that they are demons, therefore, suposedly, bad!
see, two sides to every coin!
Hahaha nice one! Poor demons they were misunderstood just because they were killing around!
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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