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| Thread: Dungeon heroes overview! |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV |
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Shauku83
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted February 21, 2007 05:34 PM |
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Dungeon has the most HP (after Dwarves) and statistically does the least damage. So Destructive is there to compensate. And it does it well 
Excelent job against those Archmages! That is amazing.. I would never have had that courage. Were they in 3 or 4 stacks?
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted February 21, 2007 05:38 PM |
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Four.
It works vs. elder druids too.
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Shauku83
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted February 21, 2007 05:51 PM |
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Oh yes, but I find Archmages much more difficult because of Fire Ball being able to kill two fodder stacks.
There is the annoying 30% change that they would have been in 3 stacks, what would have been the outcome then? I guess one would need Meteor Shower for that.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted February 21, 2007 06:07 PM |
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Quote:
Oh yes, but I find Archmages much more difficult because of Fire Ball being able to kill two fodder stacks.
There is the annoying 30% change that they would have been in 3 stacks, what would have been the outcome then? I guess one would need Meteor Shower for that.
Well,that's also a bit luck-dependant. It's possible that my hero will move before one stack of them, even if two will fire. Then, he will get a second cast before those two because expert sorcery pushes him up. The remaining archmage kills the third fodder and gets erased by my spell. Easy 
I may get lucky to act before three stacks, I may be extremely unlucky to act after all of them. It's always a bit risky. But hey, I may eventually run and rehire if I was really out of lucj, since I carry mostly fodder with me That's the WONDERFUL thing about warlock: There is no lost battle as long as you can run. Error in creeping doesn't end the game.. one lost battle with a strong opponent doesn't end it either. Unless he's got shackles of war, that is. 
another GREAT feature of warlocks: You need only 22 levels for a totally _PERFECT_ build in terms of magic power. It's quite a lot, but reachable, and it's the cheapest perfection available (perfect demonlord would need like 28 levels to reach all, plus a skill that has 2% chance of popping up..)
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Shauku83
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted February 21, 2007 06:27 PM |
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Yes I agree! Destructive is criticised because it looses effectiveness in the long run, but that is not entirely so. Because after a big fight, no matter which one of you was the one to retreat, both will have a crippled army. And bam, the Destructive is horribly effective again and that Light Magic seems awfully like a waste
But anyways I am quite impressed of dealing with those Archmages... I have a lot to improve in the speed of my Dungeons creeping (I use Deep Hydras a lot)
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted February 21, 2007 06:40 PM |
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Personally, I find deep hydras not very good at creeping.. I prefer stacks which I don't care for (assassins, scouts, tier1 units from captured neutral towns) plus blood furies to kill slow walkers for me without wasting mana (and I only carry 1-2 pops of furies cause they can kill 9999 zombies or golems anyway and I don't lose THAT much when I need to retreat). Whenever I fight a stack that may kill a fury, I take them off combat field.
Try stacks of fodder containg 1 unit for casters and tough shooters.. and attack them after you've accumulated enough spellpower, decent spells and a corresponding +damage artiefact.
ALWAYS get an artie such as emerald slippers, phoenix cape etc.. It's a significant and free damage boost. Get artie merchant early and check if it's there Also, scout the map to see if it's somewhere near. Those artiefacts are considered "minor" and are badly guarded and cheap, good for us.
In the earlygame, use blood furies a lot to get most exp of slow walkers without wasting mana on weak (yet) spells.
Ah, sacrificing a major part of the assassin stack if you choose Vayshan is never bad if it can give you a good artiefact or lots of exp!
Also, if you don't want to run from neutrals, take shadow witches/matriarchs with you. They tank suprisingly well and have a nice powerlevel, making neutrals appear in less stacks. The bad part is that retreating will make you lose precious units.
Also, the golden rule "take gold from chests" doesn't apply that drastically to Warlocks.. I'd say take all 2k EXP chests early to raise your spellcasting fast. You need it.. badly.. Extra creatures isn't even half that good as an additional skill and more spellpower.
Those are the basic tips
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted February 21, 2007 07:05 PM |
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Pretty much how I use dungeon. Glad to hear you are with me on that!
Don't you just love having 5 1-assassin stacks and setting magic mode to overkill?  Magic all the way baby!
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted February 21, 2007 07:11 PM |
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oh I do!  So simple, effective and flashy. I love it
I'd say Dungeon became my favorite faction now.
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Shauku83
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted February 21, 2007 08:51 PM |
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Quote:
Personally, I find deep hydras not very good at creeping.. I prefer stacks which I don't care for (assassins, scouts, tier1 units from captured neutral towns) plus blood furies to kill slow walkers for me without wasting mana (and I only carry 1-2 pops of furies cause they can kill 9999 zombies or golems anyway and I don't lose THAT much when I need to retreat). Whenever I fight a stack that may kill a fury, I take them off combat field.
Try stacks of fodder containg 1 unit for casters and tough shooters.. and attack them after you've accumulated enough spellpower, decent spells and a corresponding +damage artiefact.
ALWAYS get an artie such as emerald slippers, phoenix cape etc.. It's a significant and free damage boost. Get artie merchant early and check if it's there Also, scout the map to see if it's somewhere near. Those artiefacts are considered "minor" and are badly guarded and cheap, good for us.
In the earlygame, use blood furies a lot to get most exp of slow walkers without wasting mana on weak (yet) spells.
Ah, sacrificing a major part of the assassin stack if you choose Vayshan is never bad if it can give you a good artiefact or lots of exp!
Also, if you don't want to run from neutrals, take shadow witches/matriarchs with you. They tank suprisingly well and have a nice powerlevel, making neutrals appear in less stacks. The bad part is that retreating will make you lose precious units.
Also, the golden rule "take gold from chests" doesn't apply that drastically to Warlocks.. I'd say take all 2k EXP chests early to raise your spellcasting fast. You need it.. badly.. Extra creatures isn't even half that good as an additional skill and more spellpower.
Those are the basic tips
Thanks. I do use magic all the way, and the basics I can master after playing the game for a year I just play it safe by doing it with Deep Hydras. They can creep through pretty much anything without losses. Before Hydras I use Furies + Minos, Minos as tanks against low level shooters and fast creatures when deploying Furies could result in casualties. Single Scouts/Assassins as shields for Furies against large creatures.. Or using 5 single Assassins like Elvin said. The point here is that then you are having a stack of Furies with you then as well, and that is risky. Then the retreat is a bad option. Then it wouldn't be wise to attack the Archmages. Those I have not defeated myself without Deep Hydras, because of that reason. You want the Blood Furies for creeping early, and they remain with my main... They help me save the Warlocks spellpoints. Therefore retreat has never been an option for me.
But if you have only Assassins to begin with (Vayshan rocks ) the retreat won't be the end of the world. You can come with another set of Assassins to finish the job.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted February 21, 2007 09:38 PM |
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losing 15 furies when retreating doesn't change a damn thing. Since the furies will get killed in the first blow in player vs. player battle, it's redundant to care for extra 10, since they will die anyway. I do it cuz I hate losing them somehow.
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Shauku83
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted February 21, 2007 09:44 PM |
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Yes you are right. Though they help a lot in creeping because they save your spellpoints. That's why I'd rather not loose them.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted February 21, 2007 09:49 PM |
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Also, if you need a free townportal, retreat is very handy.
And furies are great for killing slow stuff indeed. So funny when they slaughter zombies. That's perhaps my favorite creep battle
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Warlord
Famous Hero
Lord of Image Spam
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posted July 11, 2010 12:40 AM |
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I haven't tried Kythra in some time... I'm getting Tote soon, so I'm thinking Minotaur Taskmasters, which with Kythra= great creeping? Minotaurs, Hydras, Furies, and Assasins as creeping force+magic from guilds. Furies and Assasins lower numbers significantly, Minotaurs and Hydras finish the job, magic against ranged units. Not sure though... The assassin guy has better creeping, that's a given.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted July 11, 2010 02:03 AM |
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Considering that stalkers + destructive own pretty much everything minos are kinda useless in comparison. Best thing is fireball + ignite, I've cleared lots of titans week 2 that way - though back then they waited instead of moving around Now it would probably be risky.
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Map also hosted on Moddb
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zaio-baio
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted July 14, 2010 03:24 PM |
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"They have a nice powerlevel, making neutrals appear in less stacks"
i never knew that, is it in the hommV manual ?
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted July 14, 2010 03:34 PM |
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In every heroes game the more neutrals are 'scared of you' the less stacks they are divided into. If you attack with 7 stalkers you will always face 4 stacks for instance which makes large units easier to kill with fireball
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Map also hosted on Moddb
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petka
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 15, 2010 09:34 AM |
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Edited by petka at 09:57, 15 Jul 2010.
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"Let's see,you need enlightment+intelligence, sorcery+arcanetraining+erratic mana, destructive, luck+soldier's luck+warlock's luck, ton of resources for guilds, luck to get slippers, luck to get implosion in your guild, some +SP artifacts.. and still, even with all those things, a stupid counterspell can make all your efforts worthless.. not mentioning familiars draining you completely, academy arties giving ridiculous ammounts of spell resistance, silver unicorns, dwarven luck, antimagic spell and so on. In other words, I prefer to get some huge army, skip the guilds and get skills that can boost my creatures."
I want to argue about this statment of yours:
1. You can have setup of those skills in lvl 22 even with + 4 SP bonuss skills.
2. Slippers are quite common artefact and considring you can have artefact market quite cheap and early its not that hard to get.
3. For spells there are phyramyd, training on map, mages vault, dragon shrine, magic guilds at last. I think you need to be very unlucky to not to get meteors and implosion.
4. Counterspel is easy to counter with your shadow whiches: use any of theyrs spell and CS will be wasted on them, but not on your hero.
5. Yes imps are the problem, but with int and knowelege you need tons of them to drain all warlocks mana. And besides if dealing with deamons i can sacrifice a lot in order to kill imps asap (teleport asault may help or tactics + drakies or +furies. Whoever starts first from my high init units will be sent to kill imps as first priority.
6. For academy arties good counter is your racial + if you can get staff of sar issues i bet you will do it before trying atack Academy.
7. Unicorns are not that reliable and how many units do you expect to place around them ? Unicorns are not tough for my riders and blod furies so it would go same as with imps - firs target to whipe. Besides first 4 tiers of Sylvan units are quite low HP wise, so 1 meteor can decide battle.
8. Antimagic spell ? Yeah some dude tried to use it against my racial, but 75 perc dmg were even to enough. And antimagic is single target spell while meteor is not >;P
9. So in my expierence i can tell you: i have wiped non AI players while entering combat only with asasins and whiches (bouth stealthed) by using boosted destro (for what goes all my lvling, artifacts, skills and creeping choices). So why i couldnt do it easily with full army in hand ? Trully for warlock destro path is so much more than might (not to mention fire mastery bonus on armor of might factions + my heroes atack skill).
For warlock his whole army is only for meat purposes and for few tactical tricks to disable imps and counterspel. It is good enough as it lets warlock to land enough destro spells. But frankly 1 meteor shower (empowered) with slippers, destro expert, warlocks luck and elemental chains can leave nearly no units to deal with >;D
And besides nobody is so perfect as warlock with stelthed assasins encountering main foe landing few hard hiting mass spels and escaping combat. Yes its low and not honorable, but what else can you expect from warlock ???
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Varsuvius
Tavern Dweller
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posted September 27, 2010 02:08 PM |
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Quote:
For warlock his whole army is only for meat purposes and for few tactical tricks to disable imps and counterspel. It is good enough as it lets warlock to land enough destro spells. But frankly 1 meteor shower (empowered) with slippers, destro expert, warlocks luck and elemental chains can leave nearly no units to deal with >;D
And besides nobody is so perfect as warlock with stelthed assasins encountering main foe landing few hard hiting mass spels and escaping combat. Yes its low and not honorable, but what else can you expect from warlock ???
As for the first part, i like the philosophy, but then why get Attack? For Tactics i presume...
As for the second part... well, Elvin has sooo greatly described it in another humorous thread... but i guess it had wisdom hidden within hehehe
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