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| Thread: Dwarves - Review |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted January 23, 2007 03:02 PM |
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hey, good job! You've inspired me to write something similiar about inferno town. 
One thing I must add: defence formation+preparation is great against armies that don't rely on shooters. Because of enormous DEF bonus, the damage will be PATHETIC, and what's more - your creatures will act first, bwahaha.. And there's the ressurection rune, so after you've lost some creatures, bam, they are back..
Bears are good because of paw strike. Paw strike+stun rune+wound ---> the best disabler in the game! Works best against powerful melee creatures like, say, arch devils or emerald dragons.
And berserkers are fine IMO, with specialist and activated rage their damage almost reaches 200 per week! Without retaliation and with rune of ressurection to aid them..
The problem with this town is simple: costs. 20 gems for thanes? 20 sulfur for dragons? Ridiculous. TITANS' dwelling costs 20 gems, and it's an upgraded level 7 unit, not non-upgraded level6.. -____-
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted January 23, 2007 03:35 PM |
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Maybe he was referring to its dwelling resource costs. They are a bit outrageous.
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GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted January 23, 2007 05:38 PM |
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Quote:
Vampire Lords: 3500 Gold
Succubus Mistresses: 3500 Gold
Imperial Griffin: 3600 Gold
Druid Elders: 3400 Gold
Grim Raiders: 3600 Gold
ArchMages: 3400 Gold
Berserkers: 3440 Gold
Why do you see them expensive?
Because all those 4th level creatures are twice stronger then Berserkers. Just look at the statuses, the damage and the abilities.
All those creatures worth their cost, the Berserkers don't. 
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted January 23, 2007 06:53 PM |
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Quote:
Because all those 4th level creatures are twice stronger then Berserkers. Just look at the statuses, the damage and the abilities.
All those creatures worth their cost, the Berserkers don't.
I'm sorry, but that's just plain wrong. This compares Berserker to average of remainder of level 4 creatures:
Attack: 7 vs. 9.3
Attack: 7 vs. 8.5
Initiative: 12 vs. 11.2
Speed: 5 vs. 5.7
HP Growth: 400 vs. 346 (Yes, Berserker is actually higher!)
Damage Growth: 48-128 vs. 64-115
Average Damage Growth: 88 vs. 89
Costgrowth: 3440 vs. 3483
Sure, Berserker has not got the greatest Attack/Defence rating, but with Berserker rage, you'll have Attack 14 / Defense 0 with no retaliation! Who needs a good defense rating then?
Their HP growth is actually significantly above average. Of course they die very easily, and that for sure means you'll have to think twice before engaging them in combat with multiple enemy stacks. In this regard, the unit is very similar to the Djinn.
Speed is slightly below average, which is of course a problem for a melee unit - but then, you don't want this one to rush to the fore considering its limited HP reserve. Better to hold it back and take out that tough stack that crosses the battlefield first to engage your archers. And if you really need it to run, use a rune of charge. Voilá.
There's a huge damage potential in this unit. With max damage almost 3 times minimum damage, Divine Guidance will work wonders here. And with Eternal Light, the enemy will not even be able to dispell it. Sweet? I think so. And then there's the combination of Berserker Rage with Rune of Battlerage ... It'll probably be only rarely you will be able to exploit this to full potential, but when it happens, it might be a real lifesaver - and tons of fun.
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What will happen now?
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FreshHope
Adventuring Hero
Defender of Light
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posted January 23, 2007 07:13 PM |
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I have thoroughly enjoyed playing the Fortress too, and i noticed that berserkers do have pretty high power ratings for a good reason, in fact i think the highest in the entire faction 
Regarding the rune of ressurection, i hardly use them, cos my main hero normally have the ressurection spell itself am i right to say that just by using the rune (again & again), you'll never be able to save all of the stack?
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Where there is Faith, Hope arises.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted January 23, 2007 08:16 PM |
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That is entirely true. The rune only Resurrects 40 % of the creatures killed. Thus, multiple castings will yield the following resurrection rates:
1 casting: 40 %
2 castings: 64 %
3 castings: 78 %
4 castings: 87 %
But there is a limit at 3 times per combat - right?
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What will happen now?
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted January 23, 2007 08:23 PM |
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Two per unit if you have greater rune.
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Map also hosted on Moddb
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GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted January 24, 2007 01:31 PM |
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Quote:
hey, good job! You've inspired me to write something similiar about inferno town.
One thing I must add: defence formation+preparation is great against armies that don't rely on shooters. Because of enormous DEF bonus, the damage will be PATHETIC, and what's more - your creatures will act first, bwahaha.. And there's the ressurection rune, so after you've lost some creatures, bam, they are back..
Bears are good because of paw strike. Paw strike+stun rune+wound ---> the best disabler in the game! Works best against powerful melee creatures like, say, arch devils or emerald dragons.
And berserkers are fine IMO, with specialist and activated rage their damage almost reaches 200 per week! Without retaliation and with rune of ressurection to aid them..
The problem with this town is simple: costs. 20 gems for thanes? 20 sulfur for dragons? Ridiculous. TITANS' dwelling costs 20 gems, and it's an upgraded level 7 unit, not non-upgraded level6.. -____-
I'm very glad I inspired you. It's a nice complement. 
Yes, what you said about the buildings' costs it correct.
And you forgot that to upgrade the Thane costs 10 gems and 10 crystals, except of the 20 gems to build the Clan Halls.
Well, I guess it cost a lot to do buildings that won't melt near the Lava.
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Shauku83
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted January 26, 2007 03:15 PM |
bonus applied. |
Edited by Shauku83 at 15:25, 26 Jan 2007.
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Warning! I have just tested Dwarves. This may contain inaccuracies or stupidities. It all started that I wanted to point Warlord upgrade isn’t as good from damage perspective as the original post stated. It is actually the smallest there is on level 6..
Defender. A durable un-upgraded level 1 unit. Takes only 50% damage from ranged attacks, so can be used early for fighting low level shooters. If your hero has Destructive Magic. A nice option to have, but you should definitely upgrade before that. (use only un-upgraded if you MUST get a mine on day 1)
Shieldguard is a must upgrade. Durability increased 80%, and damage slightly as well. Now shooters can be taken easily down with some Destructive Magic and only Shieldguards deployed on the battlefield. Shield wall adds to another use for the unit. To stop enemy cavalry from reaching your lines. Tactics can aid here… they should always be used as the first line of defence. Favourite Rune : Rune of Resurrection
Spearwielder. A nice support shooter. The ability to cripple aids your other units well, only 2 shots though with a poor damage.
Skirmisher. They are able to deal with approaching enemy now, with the no melee penalty. But don’t let this fool you. They are still the supportive shooter, and now they do annoying damage to enemy as well. Target the shooters/casters. The reason why they are still not for melee is because they have the least hit points from the dwarven army. So keep them at support, preferably with an ammo cart! Favourite Rune : Rune of Magic Control, Rune of Thunderclap
Bear Rider. A large creature at level 3, with a killer defence 10. They can endure pretty much. Lack of damage and abilities suggest to upgrade, as you don’t need another tank anymore.
Blackbear Rider. A considerable upgrade 28% more damage, 44% more durability, +1 speed and initiative and ability Paw Strike. Their role has changed, from a tank to a tanky-attacker. They can go to enemy archers quickly, and moving more tiles to the enemy will more likely make their ability trigger. This is a jack-of-all-trades creature, with the emphasis still on defence – as most dwarves do. Favourite Rune : Rune of Battle Rage (multiple Paw strikes)
Brawler. These guys have the fastest initiative of your faction. Once again they do not posses any abilities besides immunity to mind control without the upgrade. The stats are not impressive either. You will find use of this only as attacker in large numbers and with appropiate runes. The horde-dwelling is cheap so start collecting them…
Berserker. Durability increased, damage increased over 40%. They are still very vulnerable, but now they do some damage. They can inflict it for no retaliation, which is invaluable for these guys. Needless to say, you are supposed to soften the enemy with Crippling attack, harass with Blackbear Rider and so on. There are some deadly runic combinations for you to find out for this guy, but remember, they are no lonely fighters for sure. Favourite Rune : All runes will do great here. To name a few: Rune of Resurrection (they have a tendency to die), Rune of Etherealness (same reason),Rune of Berserking
Rune Priest. A shooter with good damage, finally! Initiative 8 means that they need their time to start shooting… So be ready to defend them (Shieldguards, Blackbear Riders) or be ready to attack Blackbear Riders and Berserkers) Casting Deflect Missile on Berserkers is a good choice.
Rune Patriarch. Fire Wall adds loads to the strategic possibilities. It can be used to protect your troops from incoming enemies, or it can be cast directly on enemy casters/shooters. This upgrade is phenomenal. Increase in initiative is crucial, and durability once again increased 34%, damage increased 18% with area affect (all of which can set a Mark of Fire). A versatile shooter, having the biggest average damage from Fortress without attack & defence modifiers thanks to the horde-building. And did I mention that the biggest average damage comes with an area attack? You can’t go wrong with this creature. Favourite Rune : Rune of Thunderclap (for several targets)
Thane. The only teleporter (flyer) in the army, a fast and durable creature. With a delicate special chain attack, this creature is made to be used with runes. Assault force of Fortress is ready, you can engage the enemy with fierce passion if that is your strategy. The runes surely give you a change for that, as do Light Magic, enhancing your forces greatly. Swift Mind gives you the opportunity to cast a mass spell before charging in…
Warlord. This upgrade is miniscule. The damage is increased 15%, which is pathetic on any standards. Level 6 hasn’t got good upgrades in general, but Warlord brings the smallest increase in damage. Durability is increased 20%, that is good indeed but not essential. The best part of this upgrade is a one time ranged attack, with a chain attack! This allows more strategic options, as for the first turn you can act as if you have 3 shooters! Taking the defensive stance is therefore easier, and picking the right skills that defence can be difficult to brake. Even if you are on the attacking spree, you might not want to charge alone with them, and therefore instead of waiting you can simply shoot. Favourite Rune : Rune of Dragonform. (gains the biggest bonus), Rune of Battle Rage (can lead to a massive damage with chain attack)
Fire Dragon. Here comes a nice addition to your army. They are tough, can endure damage, can inflict some damage. Work in great addition with Rune Patriarchs, even if you use the Fire Wall defensively or offensively. These creatures can roam the field. A good way is to cast a Fire Wall in the middle of the battlefield, move Dragons behind it, shoot with all 3 of your shooters and next turn charge in for the kill! Well, that is only one scenario.. depending on the opponent of course. But as Warlords can fly over the firewall, Dragons can walk over them and your Hero has cast 2 mass spells before you enter the combat…
Magma Dragons. They score more damage (25%) their durability is increased enormously (talking about 50HP and 5 defence stats more. And the crazy part is that the opponent will be doing 112 damage to itself for every Magma killed in melee. That’s right. They are a target for damaging spells therefore (as mind spells don’t work on this fellow) and the rune that gives protection from certain elements is recommended if the approach isn’t charge. They do score the most of your faction, considering the huge gap between attack and defence ratings; they have 15 more attack than your level 6! So even with great defence, they are perfect assault machines with their fire breath.Favourite Rune : Rune of Charge (speed to 10),Rune of Battle Rage (fire breath)
Fortress hides in itself several combinations to unravel. It has a great opportunity for defensive play, and surprisingly a lot of attack potential through petrifying opponents momentum. That attack potential is usually revealed through runes. The element of surprise, unpredictability, is the key for messing opponents plans.
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PhoenixReborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
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posted January 26, 2007 03:32 PM |
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Don't forget that the stormstrike of the thane/warlord is a second attack so you've got to effectively double the damage (rating) done to a single creature.
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Bask in the light of my glorious shining unicorn.
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Shauku83
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted January 26, 2007 03:41 PM |
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That is not forgotten. The creatures are great, the upgrade just doesn't provide much difference to damage. Average damage gets from 20 to 23, that is not much of an improvement.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted January 26, 2007 05:33 PM |
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Excellent review, Shauku! 
Mods ... Dish out a  here, because this review is even better than the one in the master post!
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What will happen now?
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dcinroc
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 29, 2007 06:20 AM |
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Dwarves can be powerful...
...IF you have the Rune of Charging (RoC). If you don't, then the slow speeds could be a disaster.
I have played the Fortress many times, and it is probably my favorite faction, but it is a radically different experience with/without the RoC.
Defenders/Shieldguards are weak offensively, but you get lots of them and they are more durable than a typical Tier 1 walker. I often use them to charge a nasty high tier stack. That way, they can take the retaliation, while another more valuable unit does a follow up attack.
Another issue regarding Shieldguards is that I can afford to take them all with me since the Fortress gets a HUGE stack of them free as a garrison. No other faction gets this wonderful ability.
Skirmishers are useful primarily for their wounding ability. Generally you want to take shots at your opponents fast creatures. However, Ammo Cart is a must with these guys.
Bear Riders/Blackbear Riders are great. The upgrade is a must! Paw strike combined with the RoC is fantastic! Take a run at the nastiest opposing creature or ranged striker...not only do you inflict the damage, but there will be no retaliation AND the target loses its next initiative! My favorite tactic is to have the Bears run from side to side of the battlefield stunning opponents while the rest of my troops mop up.
The rest of the Fortress creatures are fairly standard in terms of how to play them...except the Berserker (I call them Kamikazes, because they get ONE attack, and then they die). The best use I have for Berserkers is a distraction. It seems that the AI HATES berserkers with genocidal ferocity...so as long as there is even one Berserker on the battlefield, the rest of your units are safe.
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emilsn
Legendary Hero
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posted January 29, 2007 07:38 AM |
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Yes great shauku ...
I must say this faction is suprior...
How do that thing work with the Guard post... or what is it called? Is it week based? like population based... Its great but just thinking about how it work
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dcinroc
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 29, 2007 08:21 AM |
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Quote:
Yes great shauku ...
I must say this faction is suprior...
How do that thing work with the Guard post... or what is it called? Is it week based? like population based... Its great but just thinking about how it work
The number of Guards seems to be based on the Town Level. With a final top-out around 2,000 Shieldguards.
Also, no hero or additional units are required, so the Shieldguards can hold the town by themselves if necessary.
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emilsn
Legendary Hero
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posted January 29, 2007 09:27 PM |
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so a High lvl Fortress town will be guarded by 2000 Little dwarves... Oh i love this town ... Muahahah
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FreshHope
Adventuring Hero
Defender of Light
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posted January 30, 2007 03:10 PM |
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Quote:
The number of Guards seems to be based on the Town Level. With a final top-out around 2,000 Shieldguards.
Also, no hero or additional units are required, so the Shieldguards can hold the town by themselves if necessary.
Wow that is amazing!!! Imagine them in the hands of Ingvar...
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Where there is Faith, Hope arises.
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Nemira
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 30, 2007 11:36 PM |
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I think would be a good time to update this post with the TotE alternative upgrade units!
I just got the game meself, so I can't make a list yet, but if none of you the experienced guys is willing to update, I will in couple days to get a feeling of them
-Nemi
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Dreathtil
Tavern Dweller
Angels Call it Sin
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posted March 01, 2008 07:17 PM |
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You Won't beleive me or Will you?
Quote:
Quote:
The number of Guards seems to be based on the Town Level. With a final top-out around 2,000 Shieldguards.
Also, no hero or additional units are required, so the Shieldguards can hold the town by themselves if necessary.
Wow that is amazing!!! Imagine them in the hands of Ingvar...
You Probably Won't Believe me but I've experimented making little for fun maps and I've noticed its an Approxmate of 56 Dwarves Per level + Theres Common knowledge if you "don't" know it already is that the dwarves are always upgraded so you can have a level 26 town and have 1456 Dwarves {Approximately} 
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When the World Ends you will all praise my name.
Or Will You?
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Craptisticula the Craptacular Craptical Crappicly Crapped Crap
No I'm not talking about me.
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Zonin
Tavern Dweller
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posted May 13, 2008 09:26 AM |
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Played around a bit with Dwarves with a friend (We often end up spending an afternoon playing a full game) and I got the Guard Post on a whim, having no idea what it would do. Long story short, my level 15 Ingvar was defeated by an AI and I recruited him back at my Fortress just as my friend attacked with a vastly superior force. But then we saw an additional stack of Defenders. A stack with 2k of said defenders in it.
O____O
Understandably, despite my friend blinding them until EVERYTHING else on my side was dead, they killed everything off and I won, pretty much dooming my friend and letting me feel dirty. I've been unable to find any discussions on these forums about it (Searching for Guard Post here makes nearly EVERY post pop up since the "post count" bit at the bottom is included -_-), so I was wondering about:
A. What determines the number of Defenders added (Gonna assume it's time, in which case, how many are added per week?)
B. Is it working as intended? I mean, in somewhat long games it seems HUGELY overpowered in my eyes...
Thanks for your time!
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