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| Thread: Barack Obama -- dialogue on his candidacy |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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maretti
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Supreme Hero
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posted February 10, 2007 07:23 PM |
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It might have been mentioned before but this is a long thread.... How is his view on religion?
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Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck
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Peacemaker
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
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posted February 10, 2007 07:56 PM |
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After being largely uninvolved in religion of any kind during his formative years, Obama gradually became a practicing Christian during his community work in Chicago during the 1980's where he worked largely with the local churches as a focal point of community organization. The friends in those churches gently urged him over time to consider actually affiliating with one of the churches himself, as he had not previously done so.
Gaging from his first book "Dreams from my Father," his involvement as a Christian appears to have been inspired by the influence he observed that the teachings of Jesus had on his friends and on the surrounding community, which he describes at one point as "awesome." While he is now a member of a local church ("Trinity United") in Brainerd, Chicago, this issue is not forefront in either his writings or his speeches. He does mention in the book (written in 1995) that his Christian beliefs are sprinkled with a dose of doubts, and that he would be less than honest if he didn't admit that to both himself and his friends.
As far as I can tell, Obama does not in any way believe in mixing religion and politics, or intend to involve religion in his political activities in any way. In fact, while I might just have missed it, I don't even recall the usual end-tag "God Bless America" that universally, relentlessly appears at the end of every speech by every American Politician since as long as I can remember, at the end of his candidacy announcement this morning (link to the video above). Someone correct me if you hear it in there.
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted February 10, 2007 08:24 PM |
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Edited by Consis at 20:24, 10 Feb 2007.
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Peacemaker,
Are you saying that Obama is the candidate you will be voting for in the 08 democratic election? Are you saying this isn't just some really great guy, but that you think he should lead this country as our president? Is that what you are saying?
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Roses Are Red And So Am I
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted February 10, 2007 08:41 PM |
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Get your undies out of that bunch Jake.
He was born in Hawaii so he is electable.
He's not the worst & has many good point of views also.
I dont agree with them all but I agree with some.
I personally think you dont want him elected because of his color the way you talk about it.
SO what if she would vote for him?
What are you going to think diferent of her because she wants to vote for him.
Grow up man, just because your politically smart it does not make you mature.
Your comments are very imature.
I am not speaking because of how I feel about how we feel about each other.
I would of said this regardless because I say what I read on here.
I think your way too judgemental on this topic & the people who does not agree.
He would make a better president then Bush.
Nough said.
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Dreaming of a Better World
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Peacemaker
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
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posted February 10, 2007 09:00 PM |
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Now slow down, you two. This is a discussion thread about a very serious issue. I both expect and invite participants to be straightforward but respectful.
Acu, while I appreciate you sticking up for me, I believe you're reading too much into Consis' last question. I thought it was very concise (no pun intended) and to the point, but I don't think any disrespect was intended at all.
Consis --
Quote:
Are you saying that Obama is the candidate you will be voting for in the 08 democratic election? Are you saying this isn't just some really great guy, but that you think he should lead this country as our president? Is that what you are saying?
Well, partly.
On your first question about whether I will vote for him in '08:
It's very early in the campaign. At this point, if the election were to be held today, not only I would vote for Obama, but so apparently (by their own reports) would my Republican husband, my Republican mother, My Libertarian brother, and a slew of others, republican, democrat and unaffiliated alike, who surround me. I take this as a sign of what I said earlier: That Obama is viewed as capable of tearing down partisan barriers and inspiring something altogether new in the American political landscape.
But that's at this point. I am not going to stubbornly hold out if I think down the road that I might waste a vote if his chances don't look good, or if some other development occurs to cause me to decide differently than I would decide today.
I will, however, tell you that if that does happen, I strongly submit that the country will have squandered yet another great opportunity; this time to choose a leader who not only could heal our national political wounds, he also might very well be the most likely individual to heal our international ones as well.
So as to your second question -- whether I believe he should lead this country as our president -- unless something extremely unexpected and surprising comes up, the answer is yes and that part is unlikely to change.
The press presence at the announcement ceremony this morning was unprecedented. Not only were over five hundred press passes issued for the event, but press from countries all over the world attended, which attests to the intense global interest (and probably hope) this man's candidacy has been inspiring.
Anyone who's been paying attention knows that nothing anywhere near that has happened at any other candidate's announcement ceremony, either in this campaign or for that matter any other presidential bid announcement in American history.
And I, for one, wasn't the least bit surprised. Their presence, and a crowd estimated at between 15,000 and 17,000 supporters despite single-digit temperatures, evidence that Obama -- beyond being a mere candidate -- is quickly proving to be the phenomenon (in a very literal sense) that I and others have predicted for at least two years now.
In a few minutes I'll try and muster up a list of the countries represented by press during the event.
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maretti
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted February 10, 2007 09:38 PM |
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Thanks for the info Peacemaker.
What do you mean by this quote?:
Quote:
I am not going to stubbornly hold out if I think down the road that I might waste a vote if his chances don't look good.
You mean if the democrates nominates 3 candidates and Obama is likely to finish last?
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Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck
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Peacemaker
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
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posted February 10, 2007 09:46 PM |
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Maretti,
I note that you are Danish. I appreciate your level of interest in this topic, and wonder what your thoughts are on this man so far, if you have any.
As to your question above: There will be only one Democratic nominee and one Republican nominee in the General Election of '08. But as the caucus process unfolds, if I think a Democratic candiate who is a sure loser against a Republican in the general election is looking likely, I might throw my weight behind whomever is more likely to win against the Republicans unless the Republican nominee is a moderate...
In other words, there are strategic concerns that I take into consideration. The best candidate for the job is only one of them.
Another is who is most likely to win a given party's nomination, and whether that individual is electable against someone I might consider dangerous (like Republicans Mit Romney or Tom Tancredo).
Under certain circumstances the political realities must override what your greatest wishes are, if your greatest wishes don't have a hope of coming true and if following them will ultimately lead to self-sabotage.
I doubt that made it any clearer, sorry.
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maretti
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted February 10, 2007 10:54 PM |
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Ok, I see what you mean, finally. If he turns out to be to left winged he wont stand a chance and therefore you will rather support a democrat who has a better chance in the final election. I think thats the right strategy. Find a guy who can win.
As most europeans I dislike the republicans. Especially the huge influence religion has on politics is a problem imo. For what ive heard so far I like Obama. The most important issue in politics in generel is how you devide the wealth and in my opinion the diffrence between rich and poor over there is to big. Im sure he wants to do something about that.
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Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck
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Peacemaker
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
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posted February 10, 2007 11:06 PM |
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Were you able to view the video in the link I posted above from this morning?
I was wondering what you thought of it.
Also of note on the "left wing" issue:
Obama is pretty straight-line Democrat, which would ordinarily frustrate the interest of many Republicans. But one of the indicators that he is a phenomenon in the making, is that the dozens of Republicans I have heard expressing their intent to support him, consider his leadership skills to be so strong that those skills simply outweigh partisan considerations in the Republicans' minds.
Frankly, in my decades of watching the American political system at work, I've NEVER SEEN ANYTHING QUITE LIKE THIS.
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maretti
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted February 10, 2007 11:49 PM |
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I just watched it. Very impressive, I couldnt have said it better my self. I hope the americans arnt to stupid to elect this man. Actually amazing power of speech. I hope there is reallity behind the words.
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Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck
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Peacemaker
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
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posted February 10, 2007 11:52 PM |
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Quote:
I hope the americans arnt to stupid to elect this man.
Hear hear. Let's hope.
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Binabik
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Legendary Hero
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posted February 11, 2007 02:20 AM |
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I hope Americans aren't stupid enough to elect this man.
Dam dam dam dam dam. I was really, really hoping this wouldn't happen in my lifetime. I thought I could live out my life in peace. Dam dam dam dam dam.
If this guy is elected, there *WILL* be violence in this country.
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted February 11, 2007 05:35 AM |
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Peacemaker . . . . And Everyone Else
I want you all to check your stomachs to what I am about to say. What I'm about to say will find some truth deep in your gut and you will be unable to hold back the pangs of disgust. But the truth, no matter how painful, shall set us all free.
I went to three different elementary grade schools, one junior high school, and three different high schools. I have lived in seven different cities in three different states and visited a handful of other states ranging from the Pacific to the Gulf Coast to the Atlantic oceans. In every single location, house, school, community, I have encountered ignorant racist people. Let me say that again: every single place I have ever been . . . (every single place do you hear me?) I have met and spoken with full-fledged unabashed unabated and unhinged racist people from different walks of life and of different skin color. I've met racist blacks, hispanics, whites, and asians. In all my travels, there is nothing more disconcerting or disturbing. It is without question an inescapable feeling of disgust for what the future may hold. It's a very very terrible thing indeed.
Perhaps this country needs someone like Obama. Perhaps that would be an ideal situation on some level in regards to moving to past our inherent human affinity to judge a person by the color of their skin.
I'm telling you this man will not be elected based purely on the color of his skin. He is a man not unlike any other. He has many different facets to the gem that is his character. But sadly, in all my travels, the truth that I have learned is far from what liberal democrats believe is the state of our nation. The truth is more close to what people like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson say it is. Every time you hear them raise a flag of concern I know they are telling the truth. Racism is not even close to being dismantled. Our laws are in place but the philosophy of hatred and fear seems almost unimaginably everpresent.
The real question is: What is the next step? Who will be our next civil rights champion? Whom will help to guide us through to the next stage of compassion and understanding? I see it as no coincidence that people are so eager to yearn for long dead heros such as Bobby Kennedy. But his time is over and our people need new leadership. We are all of us afraid and we need another champion. We need another dr. Martin Luther King jr. to help hold our hand and show us to the next step. We are in fact further along than any other country in the world regarding racism but we still have a long way to go.
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Roses Are RedAnd So Am I
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Ecoris
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted February 11, 2007 11:16 AM |
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But what will happen if Obama is elected in '08? What concerns you?
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted February 11, 2007 11:26 PM |
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Edited by Consis at 23:27, 11 Feb 2007.
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Ecoris,
I believe he will not be elected, but he will make a very visible show of how much growth America is making in its civil rights struggles.
Let's use an imaginary number. Let's say that we find 28% of the people voted for Obama in the presidential election. My analysis of the voter turnout would be a view of great progress. I wouldn't see it as a low voter turnout at all. I wouldn't see it as a loss for Obama. I would see it as a sign of progress and movement away from racial inequality on a grand scale in the space of a very short time. I would say that the American 28% (please keep in mind--a conjured number) is still higher than any other country of the world in regards to racism.
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Roses Are RedAnd So Am I
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted February 12, 2007 10:58 AM |
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Well it would not be the first time someone was not elected because of thier color.
Unfortunately it's the harsh realization that people are still this way.
Jake is right, people are still racist if they share thier views or keep to themselves.
Barack can be the best option for president but it wouldnt matter simply by color.
I think that was proven 10 yrs ago.
Jake we all been through our hollow paths,
It dont mean we cant see right from wrong & teaching our children whats right & wrong.
Racist is wrong & people need to realise it, even if they were raised in a hateful environment.
We need someone who can run this country.
Life is hard as it is.
Not a person who cant run it & who is white.
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Dreaming of a Better World
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Ecoris
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted February 12, 2007 12:04 PM |
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I'm still not sure that I understand, Consis. You say that you do not support Barack Obama and Binabik adds that "If this guy is elected, there *WILL* be violence in this country."
On the other hand you say that you believe that he won't be elected. I don't see what concerns you? What would happen if he was elected?
I understand that his candidature itself and how well he does is an important indicator of how black people are looked upon, so his candidature may be important even though it might be unlikely that he wins (or is even nominated).
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted February 12, 2007 05:17 PM |
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Aculias,
I think that Hillary Clinton would take us to the next step. We need to show some love.
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Roses Are RedAnd So Am I
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted February 12, 2007 06:31 PM |
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Afterall she was the man of the married couple who made the decisions & Mr.CLinton did not do to bad when he ran for office.
I am sure Hilary didnt tell him to make people like me think he was a pimp & people like you thinking he was the pits 
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Dreaming of a Better World
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the_gootch
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Kneel Before Me Sons of HC!!
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posted February 16, 2007 05:39 PM |
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Quote:
I hope Americans aren't stupid enough to elect this man.
Dam dam dam dam dam. I was really, really hoping this wouldn't happen in my lifetime. I thought I could live out my life in peace. Dam dam dam dam dam.
If this guy is elected, there *WILL* be violence in this country.
If electing him, "means war then let it come. And let it be the final battle of our glorious revolution."
You were an activist Binabik. All the pain, all the suffering, all the blood spilled in the '60s over rights and equalities led to this possibility; this possibility that someone who isn't white and male have a serious chance at leading this country?
What is the legacy of the Children of the '60s? What does it mean if they themselves do not get to see the fruits of their labors? Are they afraid noone will fight for what they envisioned? Are they so full of despair over the self-interest and greed that has been our nation's hallmark over the last 30 years? Are we so afraid of what is morally right that we are willing to preserve the status quo just to maintain our personal comfort?
If he is elected, then let us see where the chips of hate-mongering, of race pandering fall. Let the true enemies of this country show themselves so they may be struck down. Let the paranoid and the ignorant reveal themselves so they may be relieved of their unearned privileges. If there is blood to be shed then let it be shed.
EDIT:Quote:
Frankly, in my decades of watching the American political system at work, I've NEVER SEEN ANYTHING QUITE LIKE THIS.
This generation finally gets its Kennedy. Let us hope he doesn't end up the same way.
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