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| Thread: The New Necromancer |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Istari
Known Hero
Truth Teller, ToH
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posted March 20, 2007 07:12 PM |
bonus applied. |
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A comprehensive strategy
I am working on tips and strategies for the new Necromancer. Below is a comprehensive strategy using the new Necromancer. It resembles MMR, but I am one of the many players out there who could never figure out how to use MMR effectively with the Academy so don¡¦t be put off by the MMR similarity. I call this strategy comprehensive because it includes all the detailed info you need to implement it with nothing left to the imagination. My goal is that someone who completely new to the Necromancer will be able to read and implement this, and maybe an experienced player can pull something useful out of this too.
Overview:
Level up hero as fast as possible and expand quickly using Necromancy and magic. Use second hero later in game with troops accumulated in castle.
Map Selection:
This strategy works best on a large map. I mostly play multi-player hot seat games and individual maps. Typically I play a random map set to the largest size, no underground, hard monster strength and select random towns so I can pick the Necromancer. I play this map on hard difficulty.
Hero Selection:
For this strategy the best choice is Naadir because he starts with basic necromancy, basic summoning, and basic dark magic. His special is ok, but with Naadir there is no risk in skill selection.
Resource/gold/artifact:
I take artifact and hope for the best. Lots of times its useless, but the few resources aren¡¦t going to help much, and gold isn¡¦t a problem.
Build Plan:
*the village hall and tavern should already be built*
Day1- skeletons
Day2- skeleton archers
Day3- zombies
Day4- Mage Guild 1
Day5- Town Hall
Day6- Pillar of Bones
Day7- Mage Guild 2
Week 2
Day1- vampires
Day2- Mage Guild 3
Day3- City Hall
Day4- marketplace
Day5- Mage Guild 4
Day6- Mage Guild 5
Day7- Liches
Week 3
Day1- Capitol
From here there is some variety in building. I upgrade vampires if I have a lot from Necromancy. If not, I just focus on Fort, Ghosts, Citadel, Castle, Netherworld, and Wraiths. I typically get dragons in week 4 (man that¡¦s a lot of wood and ore!). The only other thing to keep in mind resource-wise is sulfur is likely to be your biggest problem in getting to Mage Guild 5 (Because the pillar of bones takes 10 sulfur). Keep your eye out on the adventure map and prioritize sulfur. If you do this you should be fine. Also I had you build a marketplace so you can trade if you need to. I¡¦ve used this strategy several times and it is rarely an issue.
Action plan:
Buy the 2nd Necro Hero (and 3rd if you were fortunate enough to start with 2 Necro Hero¡¦s in your tavern). Transfer your bought skeletons and your 2nd (and 3rd) hero¡¦s troops to Naadir. Scout with your 2nd hero and find your wood and ore mines. All things being equal, take the ore mine on the first day. If you can reach your wood mill on the 1st or 2nd day then take it too. Often times it will lay just out of reach of your 2nd turn and on the other side of your castle. If this is the case, run Naadir into the castle on day two. If you have movement left then upgrade you skeletons and go get the wood mill. If not hang out in the castle and leave day 3 with some extra zombies. You have to have both wood and ore by day 3- no excuses.
Fight Plan
Your fighting strategy involves putting splitting your zombies into stacks 5 stacks of 1 zombie each, 1 big stack of skeleton archers and 1 stack with the left over zombies. Put your skeleton archers in the corner and surround them with the stacks of 1 zombies. Leave the larger stack of zombies off the battlefield most of the time. Focus you fire on one enemy stack. Knocking it down gives you a ghost to divert their attention to. Be conservative with raise dead, saving it for the end of the battle especially until you get Mark of the Necromancer (MOTN). Don¡¦t worry about losing a couple zombies or ghosts per battle.
Raising Plan:
As you fight the first week you can probably raise everyone and not run out of DE. Into the 2nd and 3rd week, if there are plenty of people around you to fight you need to be selective about who you raise. I prefer ghosts early on. Once I get about 8 ghosts in my army I give all the zombies to my 2nd hero and use ghosts as my defensive shield (their incorporeal ability comes in handy). If I am near my castle I will raise skeletons and upgrade them. If not I ignore skeletons and really look for creatures to turn to skeleton archers. The skeleton archers are the backbone of your creeping in the first 2-3 weeks. In week 2 we add some vampires from the castle as well as buying the extra skeleton archers. I The raise focus is not on vampires. Anytime you can raise vampires, do it. Vampires are one of the few creature that are worth postponing a fight to renew your Dark Energy (DE).
Mines:
Don¡¦t worry about clearing every mine in your area. Count your resources and the resources you need to follow your building plan and focus on those. That may mean reaching out for an early mine (sulfur), or just collecting the right resource piles.
Skill Development:
When you level up you are offered a new skill and an improvement to an old skill. This is how we know you will always be offered either Necromancy, Dark Magic, or Summoning Magic. Don¡¦t level up anything but these three skills. (*Exception- take MOTN as soon as you see it no matter what, there is no guarantee as to when it will be offered and you want it so bad you can taste it¡K and it tastes like burnt chicken). Following this level up plan you are guaranteed to have Expert Necromancy, Expert Summoning, and Expert Dark magic and level 7 (although hopefully you¡¦re at level 8 with MOTN). Every time I¡¦ve played I¡¦ve been to at least level 8 by week 3. This may involve leaving your area a little to take out more neutral creatures, but you shouldn¡¦t stray too far. Here¡¦s the secret (not really a secret to a lot of players) take all Experience from chests. *Pause to let people¡¦s impulse to hate this idea to subside*. Money is not a problem with Necromancers. Buying mage guild¡¦s ($1000 each) throughout the 2nd week ensures that you¡¦ll have enough $ for your capitol. Also you aren¡¦t buying many troops, because you don¡¦t have many creature dwellings at this point¡K most of you army is raised FOR FREE!
More Action:
As you are getting close to level 7 or 8 start planning your battles. Circle back to your castle, killing people you¡¦ve left before. When you master the technique you will be at least level 7 or 8 at the beginning of week 3. Learn your magic and recruit the vampires skeleton archers and liches. If you have 20 vampires or more, upgrade them to vamp lords at the beginning of week 3. Now you are ready for the big wide world. Most maps are designed with all your mines in a semi-enclosed area with 1 or 2 ¡§guards¡¨ (tougher neutral creatures) guarding your territory. It¡¦s now time to leave the nest and break out of your territory. There should still be some creatures, artifacts, and mines left unclaimed in your territory- don¡¦t worry about those¡K just walk on by. Your 1st Necro is now an independent free form warrior. Go forth and conquer. Hopefully you have either puppet master or summon phoenix. If you don¡¦t have either of though I will sometimes use arcane armor on my vampires and curse of the netherworld isn¡¦t too bad. There¡¦s a real good chance you¡¦ll get some good spells though (slow, wasp swarm, phantom force, confusion, puppet master, summon phoenix, even firewall and blind can be used effectively.) Is it possible to get completely screwed with spells? Yes. Is it likely? No. Let¡¦s not forget you will be taking castles soon and stealing their spells. Speaking of castle taking, if you find another necromancer on the map go for them first. The extra DE and spells are a delight.
More on raising:
Once you are in the big wide world, your raise priority may shift a little. I raise just about whatever I need to use up my DE. But assuming there are some options my 1st army usually carries skeleton archers, ghosts, spectre, vampires, vampire lords, liches, and archliches. If enough wraiths or wrights are available I will take one of them instead of probably the spectres (ghosts need a slot because of haunted mines). I gave some #¡¦s on the amount of damage each creature does per DE required to raise it in a previous post but here it is again so everything is in the same place:
Skeleton- 159
Skeleton Archer- 153
Zombie- 123
Plague Zombie- 148
Ghost- 122
Spectre- 153
Vampire- 140
Vampire Lord- 137
Lich- 181
Archlich- 208
Wright- 191
Wraith- 198
Bone Dragon- 124
Spetral Dragon- 180
For a better understanding of these numbers see the first post on this disscusion thread.
More on skills:
Now that you have expert necromancy, summoning, and dark magic its time to think about what else to get. MOTN, you want MOTN, if you don¡¦t have MOTN, get MOTN as soon as possible¡K did I mention MOTN, seriously you should have that by now. I then keep my eyes open for logistics, luck, and enlightenment. If none of these are offered I take Master of Life, Master of Conjugation, Haunted mines, and Master of mind. You should have enough desirable abilities to hold you over until you get the other skills you want. At level 23 (where my character usually gets before final battle) an ideal (and realistic) build (am I using parentheses too much?) is:
Expert Necromancer- MOTN (3 lvls)
Expert Summoning- Master of Life, Master of Conjugation, Haunted Mines (5 lvls)
Expert Dark- Master of Mind (3 lvls)
Expert Enlightenment- Intellegence (4 lvls)
Expert Luck- Resourcefulness (4 lvls)
Expert Logistics- Pathfinding (4 lvls)
2nd Hero
Ok, so our 1st hero is in the big wide world taking castles, collecting mines, artifacts, and resources, gaining experience, and making his army bigger and bigger. The great thing about this plan is that the 2nd hero is not stuck sucking his thumb. The second hero waits ¡¥til week 4, then buys all the remaining Necro troops in the castle (sometimes not zombies- I hate those guys¡K sorry ZombieLord). Start cleaning up your local territory with this second hero. As your 2nd Hero levels up you get more DE. Don¡¦t raise anything with your second hero, your 1st hero needs the troops out at the front lines, and #2 can replenish from the castle. Also now you can finally take the rest of your local mines and artifacts. You¡¦ll get double production out of mines because you¡¦ll have foreign mines by now. In this way your #2 can stay close to your castle and be ready to defend it, while #1 frolics worry free about the rest of the map. *pausing for applause¡K then gracious smile* once your 2nd hero clears your area and is strong enough he can leave too. Explore in a different direction then your #1. Assuming there are only two ways into your territory, you¡¦ll be well scouted for an assault on your castle and make it difficult for anyone to get behind you. Depending how long the game goes and ho many castles you acquire this process can repeat making your 2 hero an independent force who is allowed to raise some creatures and bringing in a 3rd hero with castle troops. Remember you have a necropolis converter to turn other faction¡¦s troops into your own (very useful).
The finale:
While you will likely annihilate the computer, any one of your hero¡¦s won¡¦t stand up well to another human. You have a couple of options. If you get attacked by a human before you¡¦re ready, surrender (you should usually have plenty of $). You save your troops and you know where he is. Combine your forces from your other hero(es) and kick his but. Or, taunt him. Use your two hero advantage to hamstring him. Get between him and his castle and take it out. If he retreats to his castle take his mines and all the other castles and overpower him whenever you want. If you win the adventure map (take more castles, get better artifacts, have more $, and more experience) then you won¡¦t have any problem against another human.
Ps. Zotan and Vladimir are good to, but not as perfect as Naadir. Kaspar is now longer top dog. Now that MOTN is easily accessible he¡¦s not needed for creeping and the end game is better with the skills I listed (War Machines not on the list). Enjoy, If this was all review to you then don¡¦t read it (try to figure that out ƒº).
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Opinions are immunity to being told you're wrong.
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ZombieLord
Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
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posted March 21, 2007 01:28 PM |
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I have bought myself time to read it and I've seen this: (btw, it's great review )
Quote:
sometimes not zombies- I hate those guys¡K sorry ZombieLord
You don't have to be sorry. I don't like zombies because they are tough... in fact, I believe they are pathetic (sometimes may prove useful). The thing that I'm the Zombie Lord doesn't mean I believe zombies are strong, but rather that I like them and they're funny... well, zombies are not my favorite creatures btw (not only HoMM V creatures included)
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted March 21, 2007 01:48 PM |
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Geez, I have to say it.. I don't want to.. But I must..
ghosts/spectres are the best thing to raise in the earlygame 
They own casters with manaburn+ressurection effect, they are great against creeps, and a horde of them does enough damage to creep in a satisfying way And Raise dead works wonders on them. Ah yes, haunted mines add another bunch.
Later it's obviously the liches. But reaching 100 spectres fast makes it possible to kill things normally impossible to kill (with some luck). And finally, it makes the blasted elder druids WIMPY. Yeah.
I have to admit my foolishness. I was so wrong about spectres
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted March 21, 2007 01:55 PM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 13:58, 21 Mar 2007.
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Obviously this means you're a bad theorycrafter. (haven't played with the Spectres and your theory called them 'sucky')
Behold the power of theory  
(nah... I usually play with Spectres and never realized they're underpowered, but after I saw your first complain about them I dig a little into theory and guess what I found  )
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted March 21, 2007 02:01 PM |
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I raised ghosts and they sucked terribly.
But you or ZombieLord or someone else pointed that there is a HUGE difference between spectres and ghosts.
My bad. 
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dschingi
Famous Hero
the guy with the dragon golem
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posted March 21, 2007 02:07 PM |
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I think the incorporeal ability itself is worth a lot. In early game that's very useful if you split them in stacks of 1 each. It provides a better blocker than many other low level creatures and is good to take retailations. For the damage, Spectres are nothing compared to Wraiths (at least not in low numbers) but can still be pretty annoying to the enemy...
@Istari
Nice review, but don't you even consider to take Sorcery? I see it as an important skill for a Necro who has Summoning and Dark...
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open source for an open mind
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Istari
Known Hero
Truth Teller, ToH
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posted March 21, 2007 03:47 PM |
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Quote:
@Istari
Nice review, but don't you even consider to take Sorcery? I see it as an important skill for a Necro who has Summoning and Dark...
Sorcery is a good skill. So I take Summoning, Dark, Necro, Luck, Logistics, and Enlightenment. The question is, is sorcery better than any of these skills? I have heard some talk that logistcs isn't as necessary as originally thought, even on multiplayer maps. I'm still not sure about this, and with a caster and potential hit and run tactics, I wouldn't want to sacrifice it. Obviously Dark and Summoning are essential. So that leaves luck and enlightenment. I think that luck is amazing and the Necro troops really need the increased damage output, especailly with a split army and no attack. Sorcery could be a possible substitute for Enlightenment. Sorcery's Arcabe Training can help make up some for Enlightenment's Intelligence. Mana regeneration and potentially boneward aren't bad either, but now you're using more levels and may not be able to get everything else. I guess I fall on the side of Enlightenment because of the extra spellpower (and some knowledge) the the extra levels/ attributes that you get from Enlightenment as well as the intellegence. The Hero going a little faster is nice, but won't apply to several rounds when casting mass slow and mass confusion... So the bonus is pretty limited to the probably one time you cast summon phoenix and an occational, phantom force or puppetmaster spell. If you find that you don't cast many mass dark magic spells, then sorcery may be a better way to for you.
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Opinions are immunity to being told you're wrong.
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feluniozbunio
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted March 21, 2007 03:49 PM |
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Once i had this problem too , i abandoned logistics and i'm fine with it.
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Istari
Known Hero
Truth Teller, ToH
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posted March 21, 2007 08:38 PM |
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Logistics is one of those skills that has more importance for the new necromancer than it did for the old one. Now you need to get to enough battle by the end of the week to use up your DE. Most of the time it doesn't matter because one large battle can use all your DE. But if toward the end of the map, when there are not as many neutrals on the map, you may need that extra movement to reach your full raising potential. Also don't forget that using the above strategy your army may be slightly undersized (relying on magic). The extra mavement would really help fleeing from another Hero. Switching out logistics for sorcery is a possibility though, it depends on your gameplay.
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Opinions are immunity to being told you're wrong.
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BlackSk8er
Tavern Dweller
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posted May 04, 2007 11:42 AM |
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"A comprehensive strategy"
This strategy of yours is based on magic, magic and more magic... of course you'll get a LOT of EXTRAORDINARY useful spells, AND with sorcery you can cast them a little more often,but.........
!!! This is Might&Magic, do not forget! What will your spells do, if your army is so weak that your necro DOESNT HAVE TIME to cast his spells, because his army was destroyed in just a few turns?
I'll point you here the drawbacks of your magic-strategy, especially when u play a HUMAN adversary, not a computer:
1. You left ALL of your army VERY vulnerable, thus they WILL fall quickly!
2. You have TOO many awesome spells, MUCH too many for you to cast them all!
3. What about fighting sylvan? they have awesome initiative, and will decimate your army quickly, before you can cast any spells.
4. What about the imps!? They WILL draw like 150 mana from you, leaving you with just a few spells to cast. Then what?
5. What about the academy magic mirror, or the sylvan unicorns magicall resistances, and other creature resistances?
6. Dungeon has pretty massive dammage-dealing spells, that WILL hammer your weak-unprotected creatures from a distance! Believe me, 3000 skellie archers WILL fall under the empowered implotion, and meteor shower will do the rest!
There are many other drawbacks, just because you left necros greatest weakness undefended! (the creatures natural physical weakness)
In my opinion, the TRUTH is that necro town IS NOT WEAKER THAN OTHER TOWNS! It is only HARDER to play with, because it's hard to SEE/DISCOVER their true strengths and master some hidden tactics.
I will try to clarify their true strengths and power in a new topic soon, which will be called "Necro Strength" (if anyone wants to review it, just type this title in search)
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feluniozbunio
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted May 04, 2007 05:09 PM |
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Im looking forward to it
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elmek
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 04, 2007 08:02 PM |
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Perhaps a noob question, but is there anywhere the current ammount of DE displayed in the hero screen?
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BlackSk8er
Tavern Dweller
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posted May 04, 2007 08:30 PM |
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Quote:
Im looking forward to it
(offtopic: it will be LARGE and it will be posted in a couple of days)
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sphere
Supreme Hero
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posted May 04, 2007 09:05 PM |
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Hey,
- I dont think that the DE is on display as of now maybe if you were to install a fan made mod of a kind this would be my first stop if your into that sort of things.
Quote:
Perhaps a noob question, but is there anywhere the current ammount of DE displayed in the hero screen?
- You can find more exact numbers in this stickied thread
- Guz
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Who is this General Failure, and why is he looking at my disk ?
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PhoenixReborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
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posted May 05, 2007 05:45 AM |
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From what I've read, 1.5 adds this system to the original game but it changed the dark energy numbers...less from pillar, more from hero levels. Can someone confirm?
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Bask in the light of my glorious shining unicorn.
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godlyatheist
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 07, 2007 05:12 AM |
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is it just me or that the new necro is too strong? Sure they don't get that much skelly archers but they get more higher level creatures. With raise dead necro will always outnumber other factions. That isn't that big of a problem but nival boosted necro stats. Look at the spectral dragon, 30/27 atk/def, which almost match other factions. Since they are cheap, you can buy more. So not only necro can more higher level creatures their stats are almost equal. The same goes for wraith.
I think necro should be nerfed by reducing the stats of their level 6 and 7'sm like 25/25 for spectral dragon.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted May 07, 2007 08:16 AM |
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Quote:
is it just me or that the new necro is too strong?
It's just you. 
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pomo
Famous Hero
The lone peasant
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posted May 07, 2007 09:14 AM |
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I haven't got 1.5 yet, but am I correct in assuming that all the additional stuff can't be used with HoF? And the DE mod presumably doesn't apply either 
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted May 07, 2007 11:20 AM |
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why?
ofc it can..
it's the HoF users that can't use the new features this time ~~
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Istari
Known Hero
Truth Teller, ToH
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posted May 07, 2007 05:38 PM |
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Edited by Istari at 15:17, 08 May 2007.
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Quote:
"A comprehensive strategy"
This strategy of yours is based on magic, magic and more magic... of course you'll get a LOT of EXTRAORDINARY useful spells, AND with sorcery you can cast them a little more often,but.........
Seems appropriate to me for a faction whose primary stats are magic.
Quote:
!!! This is Might&Magic, do not forget! What will your spells do, if your army is so weak that your necro DOESNT HAVE TIME to cast his spells, because his army was destroyed in just a few turns?
There is always time for spells. And necro's strength is not in high attack/defence its in numbers and raise dead.
Quote:
I'll point you here the drawbacks of your magic-strategy, especially when u play a HUMAN adversary, not a computer:
relax killer, my strategy was designed for human opponents and it has worked ok in ToH so far.
Quote:
1. You left ALL of your army VERY vulnerable, thus they WILL fall quickly!
high numbers + raise dead helps. Not to mention Dark Magic serious disrupts your opponents ability to kill you. I find I stay undead just fine when my opponent is slowed, confused, puppeted and contending with a pheonix.
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2. You have TOO many awesome spells, MUCH too many for you to cast them all!
Well mass spells only take half the heroes turn. Spell selection is also very important. I'll lead with different spells against different factions.
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3. What about fighting sylvan? they have awesome initiative, and will decimate your army quickly, before you can cast any spells.
I've yet to see a 1 round knock out. Mass Confusion means I can completely ignore the hunters and focus on other creatures. Mass slow means they have a lower initiative than me. Obviously its more complicated than that, especially if your opponent has cleansing or the sprites stay back and cleanse. That doesn't mean you lose, it just means you need to be a little more creative in your spell selection.
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4. What about the imps!? They WILL draw like 150 mana from you, leaving you with just a few spells to cast. Then what?
Mark of the Necromancer is a undead saver when used correctly. Enlightenment + intelligence helps a lot too.
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5. What about the academy magic mirror, or the sylvan unicorns magicall resistances, and other creature resistances?
The beauty of focusing on magic (with a magic faction) is that you have plenty of spell options. Summoning a phoenix is never going to get deflected or resisted. Also, the Necro is immune to Puppet and Mass Confusion so even if it is mirrored back to my side, no problem.
Quote:
6. Dungeon has pretty massive dammage-dealing spells, that WILL hammer your weak-unprotected creatures from a distance! Believe me, 3000 skellie archers WILL fall under the empowered implotion, and meteor shower will do the rest!
Well, I never have 3000 skel archers (2.1). If the Dungeon has a large army I puppet- they have no chance for cleansing. If they have a small army I charge with my enourmous army (from raising) and summoning a phoenix. This leaves me vulnerable to hit and runs... but who isn't.
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There are many other drawbacks, just because you left necros greatest weakness undefended! (the creatures natural physical weakness)
The answer to the necro's physical weakness is not wasting a bunch of skills with might and neglecting their strength (magic). The answer to their weakness is having way more creatures than your opponent through raising.
Quote:
In my opinion, the TRUTH is that necro town IS NOT WEAKER THAN OTHER TOWNS! It is only HARDER to play with, because it's hard to SEE/DISCOVER their true strengths and master some hidden tactics.
I agree (in 2.1). 2.0 necro is very easy to dominate with.
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