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| Thread: Primary skill analysis: Tactics | |
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted October 15, 2001 12:21 AM |
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Primary skill analysis: Tactics
Thought it is time to look closer at the Primary skills. Beginning to look at Tactics.
Tactics is a skill that increases the combat value of your nearby creatures and heroes.
Tactics family of skills: Tactics, Offense, Defence, Leadership
Tactics: Increases the command-radius for the secondary skills. Will it do something in its own right and in that case what?
For all the tactics secondary skills, will the skill apply to the own Hero? What if a creature/hero is within the command radius of two heroes? Will both bonuses apply? I believe it would make sense for the bonus to apply for the own Hero. Otherwise the leadership would be a bit strange with the creatures and other heroes outdistancing the Hero with the Leadership ability...
Offence: Increases damage dealt by creatures/heroes within command radius.
Grand master: 100% increase.
Defence: Reduces damage received by creatures/heroes in combat within the command radius.
Grand master: 50% reduction
Leadership: Increases the Morale and Movement of units within the command-radius.
Grand master: Movement +6 (assuming it also gives Morale +6)
Analysis:
This must be one of the stronger Primary skills and a must to develope for any might hero and very useful for any magic hero too. All of the sub-skills looks good and worthwhile.
If this skill influences the own hero as well, it will be even better.
(If nobody beats me to it, I'll start topics for the others as well within the next few days. Probably at the rate of one per day.)
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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Preserver
Promising
Famous Hero
Elemental Druid
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posted October 15, 2001 12:33 AM |
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It would make sence if leadership also increased the command-radius. Just a thought...
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- The only alert the invaders had was the rustling of leaves on a day without wind -
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Jenova
Famous Hero
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posted October 15, 2001 11:26 AM |
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I thought tactics was annoying in H3. It unnecessarily increased the length of my battles by making me move my characters up to the front line even when I didn't really want to. Yes I could have just stayed there and clicked start battle, but it was still annoying. I hope there's an ability to turn off that "feature" in H4.
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UnkaHaakon
Responsible
Famous Hero
happily tilting at windmills
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posted October 15, 2001 12:34 PM |
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Actually, Jenova, that feature already exists ..as I found out by accident. There's a button on your hero's screen down by the formation keys and the split troops button that will shut this off. I had an ...interesting... time until I figured out what happened. In fact, it inspired my very first post here on HC. "Tactics and That Silly Button" should be back somewhere around page 25-29 , which means I'll be looking at it again this week LOL.
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Some people say the glass is half full..Some people say it's half empty... I say "What're you asking me to drink?"
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted October 15, 2001 06:23 PM |
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Preserver: Yes perhaps Leadership should do this too, but a +6 to Movement and a +6 to Morale is a lot. Tactics on the other hand is not doing much at the moment so moving this out of the main skill seems awkward. Leadership already looks very powerful.
Jenova: The ability to rearrange troops is gone in HoMM IV (or so it seems), so you need not worry about it.
I believe we're still mising part of the bonus for Tactics. One thing I'd like to see is the ability to review any hero values. The base values of creatures are known anyway, so reviewing them is a moot point but reviewing values and abilities for enemy heroes seems to be useful ability. Values which could be reviewed include:
- Level and class.
- Skills mastered and at what level.
- Spellpoints remaining
- Hitpoint and damage values.
- Movement, morale and luck. (This could be extended to creatures stacks since these are not automatically known.)
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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Rage
Adventuring Hero
Slipping Through the Trees
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posted October 16, 2001 09:20 AM |
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Great Analysis
That sounds bang on to me, although percentages may be different (info or your ideas?).
Sounds like you could hang back with your tough troops and be relatively safe or bring that hero up to the front line with the drags and do some crazy damage.
Glad secondary skills are finally being talked about. How heroes are used would finally be defined.
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L8r
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niteshade
Known Hero
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posted October 16, 2001 05:14 PM |
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Jenova,
There is another great way to turn off tactics in H3. Just never take the skill.
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StormWarning
Promising
Famous Hero
Archmage of Thunder
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posted October 16, 2001 10:15 PM |
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Rage, the percentages that Djive quoted for Offense and Defense are from Wyvern's "Heroes 4 Beta" thread. So we're reasonably sure those are correct.
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The calm before the storm is about to end.
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Jenova
Famous Hero
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posted October 19, 2001 12:42 PM |
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Morale doesn't seem to be as good as it used to be now. It just allows you to move sooner in the round rather than giving you an extra round. Since I usually like to move LATER in the round (so that the cpu's walkers can get closer to my army and therefore within range for me to attack first) it's actually a minus. But then again, it doesn't really matter who gets first attack anymore so that strategy is no longer necessary.
Having the extra movement points though, I fear may unbalance the game. Somebody whose troops can move an extra 6 spaces in combat is similar to someone who's party is always hasted. There is potential for average/fast speed units to outrun a phoenix/angel or whoever has the record high speed.
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StormWarning
Promising
Famous Hero
Archmage of Thunder
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posted October 19, 2001 05:14 PM |
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Jenova, what little we do know of the stats suggests that +6 movement isn't too unbalancing. Dwarves have 14 movement now (and movement is separate from initiative, so creatures that don't move as far may go first - Dwarves only have "haste" 3), and I think the highest revealed is about 30. So I wouldn't freak out too much over +6 movement, especially since the battlefield is going to be much larger than before.
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The calm before the storm is about to end.
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted October 19, 2001 05:32 PM |
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Quote:
Morale doesn't seem to be as good as it used to be now. It just allows you to move sooner in the round rather than giving you an extra round.
I seem to recall that there was a chance you got an extra round too. However, unlike heroes 3 you wouldn't get it immediately but would have to wait for all others to move first.
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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Jenova
Famous Hero
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posted October 20, 2001 06:17 AM |
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That's one thing they seem to like doing: Increase the size of the battlefield with every sequel. It also increases the movement range of the troops. Is this really necessary? There will probably be a Heroes 7 one day which is 200 hexes from one end to the other in battle.
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Jenova
Famous Hero
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posted October 20, 2001 12:17 PM |
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That reminds me.. Undead are still unaffected by morale, right?
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StormWarning
Promising
Famous Hero
Archmage of Thunder
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posted October 22, 2001 10:13 PM |
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Probably, although they might get the movement bonuses for leadership.
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The calm before the storm is about to end.
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niteshade
Known Hero
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posted October 22, 2001 10:48 PM |
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"That's one thing they seem to like doing: Increase the size of the battlefield with every sequel. It also increases the movement range of the troops. Is this really necessary? There will probably be a Heroes 7 one day which is 200 hexes from one end to the other in battle. "
hehe, I kind of miss the tiny battlefields in H1. Really made the game seem more tactical, with the ability to create lines of troops that your enemy didn't have tons of room to freely run around. Also I think one of the worst mistakes they made is they took the fireball spell which was a great spell in H1 because of the small battlefields, and made it have the same area in later heroes even though the battlefields were bigger. This is why fireball was as good as lightning bolt and other spells in H1, but sucked in H2 and H3.
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted February 13, 2002 11:22 PM |
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The update for the Tactics. Values are taken from Pyromancer's thread.
The one thing that is surprising about the new "Tactics" skill is that command radius or area of influence is not mentioned. Have they changed this so the radius is always 3 squares as for the artifacts??? Or does the "all armies" indicate that command-radius have been ditched entirely?
Other noteworthy observations are that Leadership affects both Luck and Morale, and that the bonus for Offence have been reduced from the Heroes 4 Beta!!! thread.
Requirements:
Basic Tactics: For Advanced Defence, Offence and Leadership
Advanced Tactics: For Master Defence, Offence and Leadership
Expert Tactics: For Grand Master Defence, Offence and Leadership
Basic Defence and Offence: For Expert Tactics
Advanced Defence and Offence: For Master Tactics
Expert Defence and Offence: For Grand Master Tactics
Basic Tactics
All armies +1 speed +2 movement
Advanced Tactics
All armies +2 speed +3 movement
Expert Tactics
All armies +3 speed +4 movement
Master Tactics
All armies +4 speed +5 movement
Grandmaster Tactics
All armies +5 speed +6 movement
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Basic Defence
All armies +10% melee and ranged defence
Advanced Defence
All armies +20% melee and ranged defence
Expert Defence
All armies +30% melee and ranged defence
Master Defence
All armies +40% melee and ranged defence
Grandmaster Defence
All armies +50% melee and ranged defence
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Basic Offence
All armies +10% melee and ranged attack
Advanced Offence
All armies +20% melee and ranged attack
Expert Offence
All armies +30% melee and ranged attack
Master Offence
All armies +40% melee and ranged attack
Grandmaster Offence
All armies +50% melee and ranged attack
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Basic Leadership
All armies +1 morale +1 luck
Advanced Leadership
All armies +2 morale +2 luck
Expert Leadership
All armies +3 morale +3 luck
Master Leadership
All armies +4 morale + 4 luck
Grandmaster Leadership
All armies +5 morale + 5 luck
Moderator's note:This topic has been closed, as it refers to an older version of the game. To discuss Heroes 3, please go to Library Of Enlightenment, to discuss Heroes 4, please go to War Room Of Axeoth.
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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