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| Thread: Balancing spells |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT» |
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ZombieLord
Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
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posted March 22, 2007 01:22 PM |
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Balancing spells
This thread is about balancing some spells and changing most of Light/Dark spells to be more effective with spellpower (1-3 levels especially). For me it is just not fair that a Knight has his spells as strong as a Wizard does. It should take spellpower into consideration for the effect as well, not only for the duration.
But, I don't want to change the spells too much, so I kept the base value high compared with what you get per spell power. Also, I have made the spells as strong as now, at SP 10, this means they are weaker at lower spellpower but stronger at power 10+.
I have specified which spells were improved. Also, the level 4+ spells have now different values for each mastery not only for expert (useful for creatures and such)
NOTE: I don't have HoF, so my spell effects are based on 1.4 version spells!
Let's start:
DESTRUCTIVE MAGIC (thanks to Alc for some suggestions )
Chain Lightning (improved a little)
None - 20+20*SP
Basic - 23+23*SP
Advanced - 26+26*SP
Expert - 30+30*SP
Meteor Shower (improved a little base damage)
None - 40+10*SP
Basic - 52+13*SP
Advanced - 64+16*SP
Expert - 76+19*SP
Armageddon (improved)
None - 23+23*SP
Basic - 26+26*SP
Advanced - 29+29*SP
Expert - 32+32*SP
Implosion (improved)
None - 60+20*SP
Basic - 90+30*SP
Advanced - 120+40*SP
Expert - 150+50*SP
OR
None - 100+25*SP
Basic - 120+30*SP
Advanced - 140+35*SP
Expert - 160+40*SP
mana reduced to 14
SUMMONING MAGIC
Fist of Wrath (improved)
None - 30+6*SP
Basic - 40+8*SP
Advanced - 50+10*SP
Expert - 60+12*SP
Wasp Swarm (improved at no mastery and ATB reduction based on Spellpower)
ATB reduction:
None - 0.05+0.005*SP
Basic - 0.14+0.006*SP
Advanced - 0.32+0.008*SP
Expert - 0.5+0.01*SP
Raise Dead (reduced base raising power but reduce the HP of the raised units only by 20%, not the entire stack)
None - 70+15*SP
Basic - 100+20*SP
Advanced - 130+25*SP
Expert - 160+30*SP
Phantom Forces
Amount of cloned units = 85%+1.5%*SP
Earthquake (improved minimum damage)
None - 0+2*SP > 60+4*SP (min > max)
Basic - 0+4*SP > 140+6*SP
Advanced - 50+6*SP > 220+8*SP
Expert - 100+8*SP > 300+10*SP
FireWall
None - 37.5+7.5*SP
Basic - 50+10*SP
Advanced - 62.5+12.5*SP
Expert - 75+15*SP
Summon Elementals (improved)
Amount of elementals:
None - 1*SP
Basic - 1.5*SP
Advanced - 2*SP
Expert - 2.5*SP
Arcane Armor (improved)
None - reduction = 20%+0.5%*SP, HP = 300+30*SP
Basic - reduction = 30%+0.5%*SP, HP = 400+40*SP
Advanced - reduction = 40%+0.5%*SP, HP = 500+50*SP
Expert - reduction = 50%+0.5%*SP, HP = 600+60*SP
mana reduced to 18
OR
None - reduction = 50%+0.5%*SP, HP = 50+5*SP
Basic - reduction = 65%+0.5%*SP, HP = 120+12*SP
Advanced - reduction = 80%+0.5%*SP, HP = 190+19*SP
Expert - reduction = 95%+0.5%*SP, HP = 250+25*SP
Summon Phoenix
None - damage = 5*SP > 7*SP, HP = 150+15*SP
Basic - damage = 6*SP > 10*SP, HP = 200+20*SP
Advanced - damage = 8*SP > 12.5*SP, HP = 250+25*SP
Expert - damage = 10*SP > 15*SP, HP = 300+30*SP
mana reduced to 30
LIGHT MAGIC
Divine Strength
Min damage increase to: (of the damage range)
None - 47.5%+0.25%*SP
Basic - 60%+0.5%*SP
Advanced - 72.5%+0.75%*SP
Expert - 90%+1%*SP
Haste
None - 10%+0.25%
Basic - 15%+0.5%*SP
Advanced - 22.5%+0.75%*SP
Expert - 30%+1%*SP
Cleansing
Base chance:
None - 30%+1%*SP
Basic - 50%+1%*SP
Advanced - 70%+1%*SP
Expert - 90%+1%*SP
Endurance
None - 3
Basic - 5+0.1*SP
Advanced - 7+0.2*SP
Expert - 9+0.3*SP
Righteous Might
None - 3
Basic - 5+0.1*SP
Advanced - 7+0.2*SP
Expert - 9+0.3*SP
Deflect Missile
None - 20%+0.5%*SP
Basic - 35%+0.5%*SP
Advanced - 50%+0.5%*SP
Expert - 65%+0.5%*SP
Magic Immunity
Grants 100%+2%*SP magic protection (useful for Warlock's Irresistible Magic) -- thanks to DoomForge for this idea
Immune to level:
None - 1-2
Basic - 1-3
Advanced - 1-4
Expert - 1-5
Duration = 0.2*SP
Resurrection (reduced base raising power but reduce the HP of the resurrected units only by 10%, not the entire stack)
None - 70+15*SP
Basic - 100+20*SP
Advanced - 130+25*SP
Expert - 160+30*SP
Word of Light (improved)
None - 32+6*SP
Basic - 64+8*SP
Advanced - 96+10*SP
Expert - 128+12*SP
mana rised to 15
DARK MAGIC
Weakness
Max damage decreased to: (of the damage range)
None - 52.5%-0.25%*SP
Basic - 40%-0.5%*SP
Advanced - 27.5%-0.75%*SP
Expert - 10%-1%*SP
Slow
None - 20%
Basic - 25%+0.2%*SP
Advanced - 30%+0.4%*SP
Expert - 34%+0.6%*SP
Vulnerability
None - 3
Basic - 3.5+0.05*SP
Advanced - 4+0.1*SP
Expert - 4.5+0.15*SP
Suffering
None - 3
Basic - 5+0.1*SP
Advanced - 7+0.2*SP
Expert - 9+0.3*SP
Confusion (nerfed a little)
None - 37.5%+0.25%*SP
Basic - 55%+0.5%*SP
Advanced - 72.5%+0.75%*SP
Expert - 90%+1%*SP
Blind (improved at Expert Mastery)
None - 0.1*SP
Basic - 0.175*SP
Advanced - 0.25*SP
Expert - 0.4*SP
Frenzy
Damage increase:
None - 1%*SP
Basic - 2%*SP
Advanced - 3%*SP
Expert - 3%*SP (but remains for two actions)
Puppet Master
None - duration = 0.1*SP, init multiplier = 0.02*SP
Basic - duration = 0.15*SP, init multiplier = 0.03*SP
Advanced - duration = 0.2*SP, init multiplier = 0.04*SP
Expert - duration = 0.25*SP, init multiplier = 0.05*SP
Curse of the Netherworld (improved)
None - 32+6*SP
Basic - 64+8*SP
Advanced - 96+10*SP
Expert - 128+12*SP
mana rised to 14
All the above modifications can be modded, with the exception of Summon Phoenix, Phantom Forces cloned amount, Magic Immunity protection amount, and the Resurrection/Raise Dead HP reduction for the raised units only. You can modify the 20% reduction, but you can't tell it you want it only for the raised units; it simply decreases the HP of all the units in the stack.
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted March 22, 2007 01:46 PM |
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Quite interesting ideas, but I don't see why you improved Meteor Shower  but I like the improvement of Implosion (I would suggest 60+60*power actually to compete more with mass spell damage  ).
Anyway I won't comment on all of it, but a slight note to Slow -- this spell's percent values should NOT grow linear. Creatures 75% slower move twice as slow as creatures with 50%.. and then the "percent" values become even closer to each other (i.e they NEVER reach 100%).
As it's now a hero with (hypothetical of course) 85 spellpower will make enemy creatures 100% slower, that means they won't move at all. Which is much better than Haste's +58% speed, right?
And you made confusion a bit weak -- at least compared to Deflect Missile: it can be cleansed, it can be resisted, and it costs 9 mana (vs 6 for deflect missile).
Btw I like the Fist of Wrath improvement
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted March 22, 2007 01:52 PM |
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For a brain consuming zombie you did pretty well zl! Light and dark spells are the least affected by spellpower and as a result knights benefit a lot from them while having little aptitude that say a wizard. Also their value increases as the armies grow something that doesn't happen with the rest(exception phantom forces and arcane armour) which is an injustice in its own.
The only part I am sceptical about is the comparison of haste and slow. It probably is balanced if cast by a knight who wants to go light or dark but I wonder how much of an edge a necromancer would get because of that difference in power from a knight.
If we are lucky we'll get these schools redesigned in the next expansion rather than waiting for H6! Assuming there will be one and the magic will be similar of course! Again well done, an inspiring post!
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Map also hosted on Moddb
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ZombieLord
Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
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posted March 22, 2007 01:52 PM |
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Quote:
Quite interesting ideas, but I don't see why you improved Meteor Shower but I like the improvement of Implosion (I would suggest 60+60*power actually to compete more with mass spell damage ).
I just wanted Meteor Shower not to do the same damage as Fireball. I can make it 21+21*SP if you want
About Implosion: sounds good, I wanted to do that but seeing the Warlock's powerful spells... well, I dunno, must be tested
Quote:
Anyway I won't comment on all of it, but a slight note to Slow -- this spell's percent values should NOT grow linear. Creatures 75% slower move twice as slow as creatures with 50%.. and then the "percent" values become even closer to each other (i.e they NEVER reach 100%).
Well yeah but Slow can be resisted. Also, I can't make it grow non-linear
Maybe decreasing to 6% per spell power would fix?
Quote:
As it's now a hero with (hypothetical of course) 85 spellpower will make enemy creatures 100% slower, that means they won't move at all. Which is much better than Haste's +58% speed, right?
58% or 85%?
Quote:
And you made confusion a bit weak -- at least compared to Deflect Missile: it can be cleansed, it can be resisted, and it costs 9 mana (vs 6 for deflect missile).
Deflect Missile can be cleansed also, though I agree about resisting. But Confusion also works on Retaliations! Never forget that! (and it's not weak at all, it's still better than Deflect Missile... let's just say the mana cost is for the retaliation thingy )
Thanks for the input
Quote:
For a brain consuming zombie you did pretty well zl!
I just ate Einstein's and Bill Gates' brainz and that's why I'm so intelligent
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Again well done, an inspiring post!
Thanks Elvin
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted March 22, 2007 01:56 PM |
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Quote:
58% or 85%?
Sorry my bad, I forgot to add the base percent
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ZombieLord
Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
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posted March 22, 2007 01:59 PM |
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No, that's not the thing. I thought it was a typo.
Haste increases by 1% per SP (or 1.5%, I'm not sure, I think 1% is better)
Slow increases by 0.8% per SP (although I might consider 0.6%)
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siinn
Adventuring Hero
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posted March 22, 2007 02:03 PM |
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Curse of the Netherworld and Word of Light HAVE TO BE BUFFED in the next patch IMO!!
Those two spells are ridiculous if you compare them to others 5th level spells!
other modifications -as the list of ZombieLord- would be welcome but they're not that important
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executor
Famous Hero
Otherworldly Ambassador
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posted March 22, 2007 02:44 PM |
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As I like your improvement's in destructive and summoning (perhaps armageddon should be made even more powerful), I don't like the idea of sticking spellpower into every dark/light spell, especially to haste/slow/confusion. But your blind is good. So does puppet master.
All in all,
Great work, Zombie Lord!
____________
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted March 22, 2007 03:09 PM |
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hmm. 60+60*SP for implosion = lucky implosion with slippers and 20SP doing ~6k damage. That kills like 31 titans. How nice ^_^
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted March 22, 2007 03:11 PM |
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While you keep mentioning Emerald Slippers all the time (and a lucky 50% strike), where's the Cloak of Sylanna? 
BTW That spell (with a lucky strike -- i.e ability) costs 36 mana 
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted March 22, 2007 03:30 PM |
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sinitar + arcane training and it's back to 19 for empowered spell, with erratic mana it's even less
I mention slippers because I'm very lucky and I keep getting them in the shop, so I end with them end either meteor shower or implosion (sometimes both) most of the time
Cloak of sylanna is fun, but only wizards have shops, you know. Sure, you can find them on the map, but you may not aswell. And warlock always has those 3 minor arties more waiting in the shops
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ZombieLord
Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
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posted March 22, 2007 03:44 PM |
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Well, with what you said it looks like this:
- you need an artifact
- you need 3 abilities (Empowered spells, Warlock's Luck, Arcane Training); though Soldier's Luck should have been considered as well, because dungeon has only the Matriarch's whip with a triggering ability so this ability is a waste.
- you waste a speciality
- you have 50% chance to deal half damage (at best)
all of this for the ultra implosion spell.
don't you think it should be as rewarding?
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TowerLord
Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
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posted March 22, 2007 03:46 PM |
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you are totally nerfing the knightish heroes, and boosting the wizards with these spell system  ! you are definetely a magic fan ... so that's why you want magic to win and change numbers in such manner
The game is pretty balanced right now, why totally screw the magic system ? So we spend another 3 patches , waiting for things to become balanced again ?
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted March 22, 2007 03:48 PM |
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Quote:
The game is pretty balanced right now, why totally screw the magic system ? So we spend another 3 patches , waiting for things to become balanced again ?
Might heroes = MIGHT heroes -- they DO NOT USE SPELLS..
geez, so ZL's idea is decent to nerf the spells for "might" heroes
And I completely disagree about "pretty balanced right now"
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ZombieLord
Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
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posted March 22, 2007 03:49 PM |
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@TowerLord: I don't think so. Academy is considered a little underpowered and I think that's the reason. I mean, what has the Knight in disadvantage? the light spells are cast with the same power, but much more Att/Def. Why make Haven and Sylvan 'super powers'?
Also, as you see, I'm not totally nerfind them, the spells don't benefit much from spellpower.
With a spellpower of 20 (which is a lot) Righteous Might gives 8 more Attack than 0 spellpower. Is this soooo much? And I don't think Knights have 0 spellpower anyway...
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted March 22, 2007 04:20 PM |
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Interesting ideas and very relevant topic - I will try to give a spell-by-spell feedback.
Quote:
Destructive Magic
*sigh* Before I start, I feel a need to start on a bit of a theoretical discussion here. I know this will bore some, but I feel one should do this before modifying the spells.
Nival has divided - inconcistently, arguably - the destructive spells into two categories: One group favor low spellpower (and mastery) through constant damage multiplier but high bonus damage; the other group favors high spellpower (and mastery) through increasing damage multiplier with level and fixed low bonus. Water spells belong to the first group (Ice Bolt: 12 x Power + 60 / 72 / 84 / 96 corresponding to +5 / +6 / +7 / +8 SP)while Lightning and Fire spells on the other hand do belong to the second group (Lightning Bolt: 11 + 11*SP / 14 + 14*SP / 17 + 17*SP / 20 + 20*SP, the bonus corresponding to +1 SP). Eldrith arrow has wrong damage multiplier corresponding to this system!
The Earth spells, on the other hand, are inconsistant. Stone Spikes follows the approach of Water Spells (Damage is 8*SP + 24/32/40/48) whereas Meteor Shower and Implosion follows the approach of the Lightning / Fire Spells. If one was to change things, I would make this systematic, and follow the approach of the Water spells, because there are already two elements on the other system.
To group Earth with Water also makes sense from another point of view. Notice that at each level, spells come as pairs with one belonging to each of the two groups (if Earth = Water): Earth/Fire (level 1), Water/Air (level 2), Water/Fire (level3), Earth/Air (level 4), Earth/Fire (level 5). By using the above system, there will always be one spell that favores low SP (Earth, Water) and one that favores high SP (Air, Fire).
About the damage multipliers
Again, here, Nival have been a bit inconsistent. However, one can easily make some systematics.
High SP group - Air, Fire: These spells come with multipliers that are separated by 3: (5-8)-11-14-17-20-(23-26-29-32-35). The multiplier should depend on level, and this can easily be systemized:
Level 1: 5-8-11-14 (No mastery - basic - advanced - expert)
Level 2: 11-14-17-20
Level 3: 17-20-23-26
Level 4: 23-26-29-32
Level 5: 29-32-35-38
Notice that area affect spells are treated as effectively one level lower with respect (therefore: Fireball has same multipliers as Lightning Bolt).
There is currently no distinction between Air and Fire spells w. respect to damage.
Low SP group - Water, Fire: There is a distinction between these spells, as Water Spells come with a lower multiplier than Earth Spells, but a higher bonus damage.
Water: Multiplier = Spell level x 6. Bonus: +5 / +6 / +7 / +8 SP.
Earth: Multiplier = Spell Level x 8. Bonus: +3 / +4 / +5 / +6 SP.
Again, area spells have an effective level one lower.
Well, this was a long discussion about something that might not be very important, but actually gives a very strict frame as to how damage should be - a frame, that Nival don't follow themselves. But based on the above, I would suggest the following numbers.
Eldritch Arrow
None - 5 + 5*SP
Basic - 8 + 8*SP
Advanced - 11 + 11*SP
Expert - 14 + 14*SP
Stone Spikes, Ice Bolt, Lightning Bolt, Fireball, Circle Of Winter: Unchanged.
Chain Lightning (improved a little)
None - 15+15*SP 20 + 20*SP
Basic - 20+20*SP 23 + 23*SP
Advanced - 25+25*SP 26 + 26*SP
Expert - 30+30*SP 29 + 29*SP
According to the system, these numbers should be 17 / 20 / 23 / 26, but I agree that Chain Lightning needs a boost, and also it hasn't got a regular area affect, since damage is halved to next target, so I would suggest the above.
Meteor Shower (very little improved)
None - 10+10*SP 24*SP + 72
Basic - 14+14*SP 24*SP + 96
Advanced - 18+18*SP 24*SP + 120
Expert - 22+22*SP 24*SP + 144
Armageddon
None - 15+15*SP 23 + 23*SP
Basic - 20+20*SP 26 + 26*SP
Advanced - 25+25*SP 29 + 29*SP
Expert - 30+30*SP 32 + 32*SP
Implosion (improved)
None - 20+20*SP 40*SP + 120
Basic - 30+30*SP 40*SP + 160
Advanced - 40+40*SP 40*SP + 200
Expert - 50+50*SP 40*SP + 240
SUMMONING MAGIC
Quote:
Fist of Wrath (improved)
None - 30+6*SP
Basic - 40+8*SP
Advanced - 50+10*SP
Expert - 60+12*SP
I don't agree with this. Fist of Wrath is a bad spell, but it's main focus should not be damage - this is Summoning Magic, not Destructive. Your suggestion would make Fist of Wraith comparable to a level 2 Destructive spell at Expert Mastery!
However, what I feel would be good was adding another effect to the spells - either displacement or stunning.
Quote:
Wasp Swarm (improved at no mastery and ATB reduction based on Spellpower)
ATB reduction:
None - 0.05+0.005*SP
Basic - 0.14+0.006*SP
Advanced - 0.32+0.008*SP
Expert - 0.5+0.01*SP
I know I'm very conservative here, but you have to take into consideration, what this would make of the Sprites, if you add ATB reduction to Wasp Swarm w/o mastery! As to the SP dependancy - I'm not really sure I see a need for this, but yes, you could do it. I would suggest some simpler (and smaller) numbers:
Wasp Swarm
ATB reduction:
None - None!
Basic - 0 + 0.01*SP
Advanced - 0.2 + 0.01*SP
Expert - 0.4 + 0.01*SP (sorry, but 0.7 reduction w. SP 20 is to much)
Quote:
Raise Dead (reduced base raising power but reduce the HP of the raised units only by 20%, not the entire stack)
Yes, I agree to only make the reduction partial (though I'm not sure you can actually program that easily into the game! - I don't think it distinguishes raised troops from "normal"). As for the numbers, they seem fine as they are (bonus is equal to +8 SP systematically).
Quote:
Earthquake (improved)
None - 0+2*SP > 60+4*SP (min > max)
Basic - 0+4*SP > 140+6*SP
Advanced - 50+6*SP > 220+8*SP
Expert - 100+8*SP > 300+10*SP
Don't know this spell, so don't know if it needs change.
Quote:
FireWall
None - 37.5+7.5*SP
Basic - 50+10*SP
Advanced - 62.5+12.5*SP
Expert - 75+15*SP
Please, no none-integer damage values! If you want to change it, go for:
None: 9*SP + 45
Basic: 11*SP + 55
Advanced: 13*SP + 65
Expert: 15*SP + 75
Notice, that this is a level 4 spells, so you will only use it at Advanced or Expert mastery anyway, except in special occasions.
Quote:
Summon Elementals (improved)
Amount of elementals:
None - 1*SP
Basic - 1.5*SP
Advanced - 2*SP
Expert - 2.5*SP
Well, again the none-integer multipliers. Why not:
None = Basic = 1*SP
Advanced = 2*SP
Expert = 3*SP
Quote:
Arcane Armor (improved)
None - reduction = 20%+0.25%*SP, HP = 300+30*SP
Basic - reduction = 30%+0.5%*SP, HP = 400+40*SP
Advanced - reduction = 40%+0.75%*SP, HP = 500+50*SP
Expert - reduction = 50%+1%*SP, HP = 600+60*SP
mana reduced to 18
Summon Phoenix
None - damage = 5*SP > 7*SP, HP = 150+15*SP
Basic - damage = 6*SP > 10*SP, HP = 200+20*SP
Advanced - damage = 8*SP > 12.5*SP, HP = 250+25*SP
Expert - damage = 10*SP > 15*SP, HP = 300+30*SP
mana reduced to 30
Notice that these are level 5 spells, generally you will only use them at Expert mastery, so I'm not sure I see any reason to change the Phoenix spell.
About Arcance Armor: Yeah, the SP dependancy on draining rate is probably a good idea, but again, I'd say simpler numbers: Make it +1%*SP at all masteries.
____________
What will happen now?
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TowerLord
Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
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posted March 22, 2007 04:29 PM |
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I don't think anyone considers academy underpowered any more ... Of course if the game advances too much they will become less powerfull, but you can say that about Sylvan (and Haven since training nerfing) if the map is rushy... Also even in very long games academy still has the dark tricks to rely on, and can totally turn the game with those! Not to mention they've got the mini arties to close the att/def gap between them and their knightish attackers. Sylvan in short games is almost helpless  .
I like Academy lately ... Nathir really is working out fine for me. War Machines + Destructive magic do massive damage to opponents !
+8 attack not much ? It doubles the spell's effect... Really really imba! not to mention Mass Haste and Mass Slow !
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ZombieLord
Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
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posted March 22, 2007 04:32 PM |
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Quote:
Meteor Shower
None: 24*SP + 72
Basic: 24*SP + 96
Advanced: 24*SP + 120
Expert: 24*SP + 144
This will make it VERY overpowered. You also have to take into consideration the range of the spell
Quote:
I know I'm very conservative here, but you have to take into consideration, what this would make of the Sprites, if you add ATB reduction to Wasp Swarm w/o mastery! As to the SP dependancy - I'm not really sure I see a need for this, but yes, you could do it. I would suggest some simpler (and smaller) numbers:
Wasp Swarm
ATB reduction:
None - None!
Basic - 0 + 0.01*SP
Advanced - 0.2 + 0.01*SP
Expert - 0.4 + 0.01*SP (sorry, but 0.7 reduction w. SP 20 is to much)
Well, I don't think it gives that advantage to Sprites with my suggestion. It reaches only a 0.1 ATB reduction at SP 10 and 0.15 with SP 20...
And 0.7 is not that much considering it's 0.6 now. I think 0.7 is pretty well because you have HUGE SP (20) and other spells would be strong too
Quote:
Please, no none-integer damage values!
Why? I just used them to make it more diversed... of course, it's not crucial but...
Quote:
Notice that these are level 5 spells, generally you will only use them at Expert mastery, so I'm not sure I see any reason to change the Phoenix spell.
Well yeah, I just modified them to not look 'dumb' in the manual (or you could give them to creatures)
Quote:
Not to mention they've got the mini arties to close the att/def gap between them and their knightish attackers.
Not to mention Training... when will you people understand Artificier is a racial skill, and the other races have one too?
Quote:
+8 attack not much ? It doubles the spell's effect... Really really imba! not to mention Mass Haste and Mass Slow !
Let me get this straight:
Poor Wizard gains +8 attack per 20 Spellpower.
Damn Knight gains +20 attack instead of 20 Spellpower.
Sure, Wizard gains much knowledge, but also Knight gains much defense.
And also, poor Wizard has to cast the spell to reach this.
it's really really imba that Knight is such more powerful than Wizard
Well yeah, I agree with Haste and Slow. Here's a little nerf to them:
Haste
None - 10%+0.25%*SP
Basic - 15%+0.5%*SP
Advanced - 23%+0.75%*SP
Expert - 30%+1%*SP
Slow
None - 25%
Basic - 28%+0.2%*SP
Advanced - 31%+0.4%*SP
Expert - 34%+0.6%*SP
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TowerLord
Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
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posted March 22, 2007 05:23 PM |
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Quote:
Let me get this straight:
Poor Wizard gains +8 attack per 20 Spellpower.
Damn Knight gains +20 attack instead of 20 Spellpower.
Sure, Wizard gains much knowledge, but also Knight gains much defense.
And also, poor Wizard has to cast the spell to reach this.
Poor Wizard gets after 3 casts of the same spell (haste, endurance, righteous might) :
+8 more attack than knight , + 8 more defense than knight , + more initiative . Add to that , the fact that wizards creep faster , so he will probably have taken more utopias, and better artifacts, and also more experience, you have the complete picture of imba Wizards.
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ZombieLord
Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
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posted March 22, 2007 05:30 PM |
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Quote:
Poor Wizard gets after 3 casts of the same spell (haste, endurance, righteous might) :
+8 more attack than knight , + 8 more defense than knight , + more initiative . Add to that , the fact that wizards creep faster , so he will probably have taken more utopias, and better artifacts, and also more experience, you have the complete picture of imba Wizards.
Poor Wizard, even after he casts all these spells, gets less attack than Knight (20 vs 8), much less defense (even bigger than 12 difference) and 20% initiative increase, but needs 1.5 turns for this (and the creatures won't have these effects instantly). I think it's pretty unfair even now, but ok there's creeping...
Now another perspective (not nerfing/improving):
The thing is, that Wizards tend to use other spells than those that currently don't need spellpower. Would you sacrifice 20 Spellpower for a darn spell or use a level 4-5 one?
That's the point! I want to make ALL spells accesible to high spellpower (only Phantom Forces and Magic Immunity and Teleport don't use it)
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