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| Thread: I want to improve my game | |
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Demarest
Known Hero
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posted March 26, 2007 03:11 AM |
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I want to improve my game
I'll try to be as thorough as possible without being dull. I've been lurking here for a bit over a week now, reading some VERY old threads. Some of the stuff is awesome. Stuff I didn't know, strategies I should've developed on my own. I have a critical mind; I can play some good chess and am great at problem solving. The world of HOMM3 is so diverse and unfortunately, I'm a victim of bad habit.
What do I mean? I can give a couple examples. When I'm playing Castle, I mostly build to Capitol ASAP, then to Portal of Glory. In so doing, I'm mostly totally ignoring all other units. With Angels in hand, I take over Crypts and such to get the cash for an upgraded PoG. I use the Archangels to tackle Griffin Conservatories to get more Angels. About week 4 or sometimes later, I'll set out with a dozen or so AA's. Mostly I'm looking for guarded scrolls, Pandora's Boxes, and Dragon Utopia's. It's a quest for spells like Town Portal, Dimension Door, etc. If I don't get them, I can still win, but it's just not as exciting as the glamorous victories I'm used to where I just swoop in wherever I want and anihilate enemies MUCH tougher than me thanks to spells like Expert Berserk, direct damage, and of course 2 stacks of AA's able to resurrect one another.
The other example, is my method of expansion. Either I quietly eat up my area only to find when I do branch out that the world around me has been conquered. Or I'll race for the second city for the income bonus, only to see a certain area, artifact, etc nearby. Then I go for that or see the enemy, etc... In other words, I become over-extended. Worse, I let the enemy shake me a bit too much. When I see anybody near my more established areas, I stop at nothing to take them out. Which has left me as a player that is very bad at seige defense as I just usually never get the chance. Plus since I'm used to high magics saving me (as above), tactics of large scale battles are largely a mystery to me.
In my readings here, my short game has improved some. I tend to be a magic player and therefore usually somebody that builds for gold first. I'm finding out the error of my ways. I still like the magic heroes, but realize that at first, you need the might's strength to do some damage. My problem is that in building towards creatures, I have a hard time at keeping my main hero supplied and/or getting the gold to also be able to hire them. Also, a product of my bad habits is that I tend to be too routine-based, and don't shift my strategies well enough to suit any given map's points.
Plus, if I can see an underground gate, a two way portal, forks in the road... I have a hard time deciding how to play it. When I have two cities or more, I'm never sure how to develop them. I'm so used to being able to pick games apart and so used to analyzing things, that it's frustrating that I've been playing the game for so long and would be swallowed alive by anybody that's played a fraction of that time.
Finally, my biggest problem with fighting is that I'm too conservation-minded. I HATE losses on the battlefield. As such, I'll be timid about some fights I could easily take if I can accept a few losses. With all of the above, I'm learning some as I read here, but I always find those same bad habits forming. Like with secondary skills. I find it hard to tailor my selections based on the map's specifics, tend to go for most all magic schools: Earth for many obvious reasons, Wind for quadruple Dimension Door, Fire for Berserk and Blind's no retaliation side effect (remember, no losses). Finally, Water for things like mass Forgetfulness, Clone, etc. Because of my short-sightedness and unpredictability of spell/artifact availability, the longer the game goes, the harder it is for me to know how to play smart instead of scrambling for the ingredients for some form of a razzle dazzle victory.
So... does anybody think they can help break some of my old bad habits? I understand the concept of give your main hero day one as much creatures as he can and set out. I hear people saying build for level 6 creatures ASAP and use them to clear out Holds and such. I also read about people launching all out attacks third week and such. Boggles my mind. So I think there's some things I'm missing. For those who are experienced with longer games, I'd like tips there to. I'd LOVE to be able to generate an XL w/ U map and use it for a serious game instead of making one with hopes that in a few hours time, I'll be garrisoning all my other heroes while my main mops the world with Dimension Door. And before anybody suggests eliminating certain spells, etc, please don't. I've received a DD scroll with a hero that didn't have Air and had to ration my warpings. I don't want to keep such power out of my hands, I want to learn how to live without it or use it responsibly if I find it.
Other than that, ANY help would be appreciated. And I thank you for your time.
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Demarest
Known Hero
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posted March 29, 2007 07:27 AM |
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Bump. I guess my desire to be as thorough as possible has made an unattractive topic  So I'll ask more specific questions.
I used to be one of the types that would build straight for money. MAYBE taking a sidestep first week to get one critical creature ASAP. Since then, I've been playing more towards level six creatures with Castle (building) if at all possible. It works well enough. My problem is that I VERY quickly run out of cash. I know you're supposed to be hitting Crypts and such. What if there aren't any? What if they're few and far between? What if they're all low end? What if entering with 6 Efreet will lead to Medusas blowing one or two up?
Also, I read of people taking over such dwellings even in the first week. I don't see how. I realize I'm squeamish about losses, but first week, I simply don't have the creatures for this, even though I'm picking a might hero and getting as many creatures as possible. Anybody feel like explaining or linking me to explanations as to what to try and bring into what, based on what town you're playing? Crypts don't seem to hint as to what's inside like all other such buildings do. Am I missing something?
Another thing I'm curious about is chaining. I've seen it talked about constantly, but nobody bothers to explain what it is. Best I've read is that it takes practice. Last thread that asked this turned into a newb vs vet war from what I could see, with the question going unanswered. Help, please.
Finally, a minor question I had. I avoid Ballistas. If they come with a scout, great. If not, I NEVER buy one. Yet I see a good number of people talking about them like they're essential. Since building to creatures first leaves me without much gold, I cannot digest picking up a Ballista. Anybody care to explain what all the rave is about?
Thank you for your time.
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Demarest
Known Hero
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posted March 29, 2007 08:35 AM |
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listen to exerienced players than, instead of being a smartass (like in the magic heroes thread)
Being a smartass would be hijacking ANOTHER thread to further one's unfounded grudge against somebody. Stating a fact, like the Orb of Inhibition is a relic class artifact, is not. Maybe if you have something to say in a thread, say it in THAT thread. I find it hard to believe this forum allows people to bully others who are willfully confessing their shortcomings and asking for help. But pat yourself on the back; What you lack in social skills, you claim to make up for in HOMM3, and that's what's important in this world.
Quote:
Never build money first if there is no other option.
Always fight early to build your L5-7 fast, even if you lose lower critters.
Never ever think there is enough time to wait, if you can do stuff right here and now.
I know, that's what I've been doing. Still, it seems as if I keep reaching a point where I'm out of money and cannot even think of building anything or recruiting creatures that would at all be useful. Sometimes the land will have some stuff and there will be some buildings I can conquer. But I've read a few places here, talk of taking on a Crypt the first week and such. Which if it's a 10 Vampire one, I couldn't even imagine how. So do you have any advice on breaking into such places with inferior armies?
Thanks for the help portion of your input. It is appreciated.
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Demarest
Known Hero
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posted March 29, 2007 09:56 AM |
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I had read the many scouts thing many times over. It always confused me. I never start out better than Hard, so I never have more than 15G to start with. Day one is usually building a creature dwelling so I have more meat, buying every creature, including the ones that come with the two Tavern heroes and setting out with the best of the three as my main and the other two as scouts.
In my own experiences, I've always gone back and forth between main sticking to the road and settling the land. Then again, the income boost of another city always makes a difference. So I'll try your advice about sticking to the roads.
Keeping all that in mind--that my main hero is off looking for a second city, not at all addressing the homeland--what happens next? By the end of the week, I should have level six dwelling and maybe even a castle. Start of second city, do you hire a second "main" hero to settle the land, hitting all the money buildings? Hit the road in a different direction? Have the main come back to settle the homeland?
I've tried a couple different strategies and it always seem that the more of the map I can see, the more tempted I am to fight at the borders of what I can see and extend my influence and visibility. Of course doing this inevitably leaves me finding the enemy, which is much stronger than me since he's closer to home and maybe a week's more creatures. Managing multiple cities has always been my downfall. I never know what to leave just sit there for the base 500, what to build to City Hall, what to build to actually kick out some creatures, and so on.
Thanks alot for your help. I know you took my words the wrong way in the other thread, but I AM listening and I DO appreciate the help. 
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted March 29, 2007 10:28 AM |
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Taking crypt DAY 1 is the thing to do, not WEEK 1.
And yes, taking full crypt (10 vampires) can be tough, but if u are not too unlucky with your 3 starting heroes and their army, it is doable.
Easiest town to do this would be Rampart. Cents and elves are a great combo. Castle is also easy if u don't find Rion or Christian as starting heroes in your tavern. Both are "warmachine" specialists, and therefor come without level 2 army (archers) on day 1.
I'm not sure what difficulty u play, but if u play 200% on poor maps, of course the strategy is a bit different than on 160% or on 130%.
Take Castle for example. If u play on poor maps and high difficulty, I would recommend upgrading your archers to marksmen as soon as possible. Marksmen will win you much more fights than archers could. Tower needs mastergremlins pretty soon on same setup. Rampart is strong with elves, but Grandelves are a blast, so go for it. Dungeon should have harpy hags soon, Inferno need efreets. Fortress is damn strong when u can afford your first hydra. Wyverns can be bought day 2 normaly, which is a good army early on.
So this is what u should do if u play hard or impossible:
Buy the 2 additional heroes from tavern which come with army as soon as possible. The combined army of 3 heroes is enough for many fights (if u find a necro guy....unlucky). Don't chose a hero u want as main hero as starting hero. Chose a hero who helps u most in first week. This should either be a creature specialists, coz he/she starts with lots of creatures, or a money specialists. The main hero will be in your tavern (preferable a barbarian or beastmaster) hopefully.
If u play castle, chose either Caitlin or Valeska. Caitlin brings u money every day and she starts with lev 1, lev 2 and lev 3 units normaly. Valeska starts with archers only, but somtimes up to 15 (not 100% sure about this number though). So if u have archers prebuilt and start with Valeska, u have more than 20 archers day 1, if one of the other heroes has archers also, it could be 30. Thats a great starting army.
If u play Rampart, u should chose Ivor. He starts with cents and elves, and he is a good main also.
If u play Fortress, u should chose Bron. He starts with gnolls and up to 7 basilisks. Awesome starting troops. Drakon sometimes comes in handy, coz he is a gnoll specialist and starts with around 50-60 gnolls.
With Stronghold, u can either chose Gretchin (she starts with a bunch of goblins), Tyraxor (he starts with lots of wolves) or the one and only Gurnisson. He is my favorite, especially on poor maps. He starts with a balista. Balistas are often underestimated by "offline"-players. If u learn how to handle them, u can do fights without any losses, no other town/combo could do.
With Tower, I would recommend u chose Torosar. He starts with a balista, which is always helpfull. The creature specialists don't help too much, coz Piquedram brings gargs, but no gremlins, which are essential for Tower. Josephine and her golems don't help very much. Aine is another choise if u need additional money every day.
With Dungeon, u should go for Shakti. Period. If u are lucky, u could have around 150 troglodytes day 1. Enough said.
Inferno has Ignatius, who brings many imps and has tactics. He can do good fights early on. Pyre is great for her balista and the logistic skill. Calh brings gogs but no other units. And sometimes he just brings 4 or 5 gogs only. That's not very helpfull.
With Necropolis, I would take Galthran and his bunch of skellies day 1, or Isra.
So keep in mind, these are suggestion for heroes u should chose when u setup your game. They are not automatically your main heroes! But they can help u a lot to get along week 1.
Money problems:
You have to fight for money buildings (crypts, stores, treasuries, caches, banks) as soon as possible. There are many threads here in the library about fighting those special places. Look for them and read. Not too difficult to do if u have tried it by yourself a few times.
Chaining:
The idea behind "chaining" is, to NOT let 1 hero do all the fights and others just collect, but let ALL heroes do fights with the SAME army. Don't let your heroes run in all directions day 1 and 2. But keep them in some kind of "row". it looks like this:
- You do a fight or two with your first hero.
- the second hero waits near the place where the second fight happened.
- Second hero takes all army from first hero and either takes a fight himself near, or just brings the whole army to a third hero who waits in front of a crypt or creatures who guard resource/money/chest etc...
- third hero gets all army and does the fight(s) he can reach.
- and so on....
Depending on the number of heroes you have, this can be streched. This strategy is the reason, why turns in online games sometimes take 20 minutes, even in week 1!. Now u may see the advantage of having 8 heroes instead of 2..
Also keep in mind, do NOT collect resources behind guards u just killed with the guy/girl who did the fight. You should walk on to the next fight or next hero to chain army. Collecting should happen next day(s), when another hero comes along. Only if u need the resource THAT day to be able to build something in your town, you should collect them with the fighter. This saves movement.
Try to stay on waterwheels, leprechauns, windmills etc. on day 7. This way u get more money on start of day 1 next week and could buy out more troops before. Also try to either be able to buy a new hero day 1 (who has own new troops, and buys fresh troops from town) or keep 1 of your existing heroes in town day 7. That way u can "chain" the new troops u can afford a very long distance (if all your heroes are placed in a good chain) to places u have tough fights to do.
Don't worry about the missing experience points your possible "main" hero will miss if he won't do all his fights himself. These are very low amounts of exp.points. But u will recieve way more money and resources that way, which helps to buy your best creatures much earlier. Those level 6/7 troops now can fight bigger fights, which give even more experience to your main. And it is always good if all your heroes level up a bit. they get higher skills, the fights are easier then, and they could learn secondary skills which help u a lot, like logistics (u can chain army even further), estates (money is always good) or get expert in a magic school and cast spells like view air or earth.
I hope u found some helpfull info here, and try to play a bit like that. The best way to learn more about those strategies of course is to come online and play with veterans. Preferable as allied in a 2vs2. You could watch all moves and see how the heroes are placed for a chain. You could see what fights are possible with very low army. etc...
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Demarest
Known Hero
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posted March 29, 2007 11:03 AM |
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Edited by Demarest at 11:06, 29 Mar 2007.
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Holy smokes! No wonder I've heard that chaining takes practice. Taking Crypts on DAY 1?! Yikes! I DO have a lot to learn.
As I said in my opening post, I've played this game for many years. And being a critical thinker, I'm accustomed to strategy being a piece of cake. It is embarrassing how skilled I'm NOT in this game. Thanks for taking the time to help me along.
[EDIT]
Just thought of a question though. If everybody's fighting together at first, who's flagging the wood and ore mines?
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted March 29, 2007 12:53 PM |
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Quote:
Yes its easy to take a crypth with an exepctional starting army like a ton of centaurs and elves, but if you play vs really good guys they will want to play random setups.
Picking towns - dunno, never liked it.
But picking heroes is and always will be for newbies only.
So now you end up with inferno, 50 imps and a few gogs - and need to learn how to play that too.
There is no "you need to do this day xxx". Its all theorie.
The worst players are the ones that always want to go with rampart on randoms.
No need for an exceptional army to take full crypt. You can't take it if you have BAD luck (like finding a necro hero in tavern, or heroes with low army). With castle, u can take it with 50 pikeman and no archers. With Rampart, u can take it with even lesser cents and no elves. Fortress and bunch of gnolls is enough also. Inferno (on lava terrain) has no crypts. Tower can do it with mastergremlins (around 60-80 day 1 normaly) and some gargoyles / golems.
Only towns which have problems in crypt fighting early are dungeon (coz of dirt) and necro (except u have Galthran).
On 200%, chaining will start later of course, coz u lack in money. But on 160% or 130%, it starts day 1.
Wood and ore mine are always near your starting town (in a radius of max. 10 tiles). You won't find many fights on day 1 or 2 on every kind of map, so u will have enough time to flag them.
The randoms which are based on custom made templates are a bit different to play than typical 3DO randoms.
The main reasons:
- 3DO randoms normaly have many different areas.
- 3DO randoms have roads which lead to 2way or 1way monoliths instead of towns.
- 3DO randoms could place your starting town on NON native terrain.
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Demarest
Known Hero
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posted March 29, 2007 01:32 PM |
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Edited by Demarest at 13:52, 29 Mar 2007.
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Quote:
No need for an exceptional army to take full crypt. You can't take it if you have BAD luck (like finding a necro hero in tavern, or heroes with low army). With castle, u can take it with 50 pikeman and no archers. With Rampart, u can take it with even lesser cents and no elves. Fortress and bunch of gnolls is enough also. Inferno (on lava terrain) has no crypts. Tower can do it with mastergremlins (around 60-80 day 1 normaly) and some gargoyles / golems.
Only towns which have problems in crypt fighting early are dungeon (coz of dirt) and necro (except u have Galthran).
See, this is what I'm talking about. I would've never thought to leave my archers out. I figure it was a matter of throw everything you've got after it. 
Another question I have: As you know, I have problems deciding where to go. If you're developing one main hero, what do you do once you've actually taken over your first city? Head back in the other direction? The reason I ask is that this last random I generated, I had three main paths out of my area, with a Subterrainian Gate along one of them. Whenever I have so many options, I tend to play reserved to stop intruders. Then again, when I'm secluded, I tend to overextend myself.
For what it's worth, I'm checking here in between map starts. So I AM trying to apply what I'm learning here Thanks, guys.
[EDIT]
Say you did only have 50 Pikemen. What would your strategy be? Even on grass, their speed is 5 and the Vampires would strike them straightaway without retaliation.
Currently have Jenova (1-5-1-1) with 44 Pikemen and I'm not even coming close and this Crypt is just a 5 Vampire one. If I instead went in with 1 Pikeman, 41 Pikemen, 1 Pikeman, 13 Marksmen, 1 Pikeman, I was able to knock it off with only losing 3 Pikemen. Of course, I had the Crest of Valor and the Glyph of Gallantry and got a couple morale bonuses. How would this play out with only Pikemen though? Seems like it would be heavy losses, which would prevent me from knocking off a couple in week one.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted March 29, 2007 04:00 PM |
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Edited by angelito at 16:02, 29 Mar 2007.
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As already pointed out before, there is no TYPICAL walkthrough for every kind of map. Too many things will influence your decisions.
Of course u don't need to attack a full crypt with only 50 pikemen if u play Jebus template, because u will have tons of gold and chests. But many 3DO templates are quite poor, and u won't find 3 chests lying around that early. 5000 gold extra day 1 makes u able to either buy a new hero, build another dwelling (or even 2 other). This is for sure worth loosing 25 pikemen.
But this wasn't the question. Of course it is easier to take a full crypt with 12 archers, 45 pikemen and 35 gremlins. This could be a typical day 1 army if u play Castle. Replace these 35 gremlins with troggies, imps, gnolls or goblins if u like. I just wanted to point out, u even could take a full crypt with a BAD day 1. No archers prebuilt; Rion, Christian and Straker as starting heroes. This would lead ya to an army of around 50 pikemen and 6 walking dead and no single archer. Not too strong, but still possible to take a full crypt (Build mageguild day 1, bless and haste makes it a wipeout).
EDIT:
Maybe reading this thread will help a bit refering to crypt fights.
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Demarest
Known Hero
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posted March 30, 2007 12:03 PM |
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Well, I simply HAD to chime in to express my gratitude once more.
I created an all out random earlier. It started me off with Thorgrim and Gundula was my off hero in the Tavern. I almost immediately fell in love with her. I've been trying to use might heroes to start off with more, but love magic users. Here's a hero with Offense as her specialty, but comes with a spell book and Slow! Day seven of the first week, I REALLY had to push myself (distance wise) to take a Stores and a Crucible, but I had Unicorns and a Castle built, so I was looking good. Day two of week two, find a second city. It had four mines around it, but each were a small distance from the city. After I circled around flagging them all, I noticed there was a major fork in the road. I got to thinking, with mines all around and a major fork, I probably could've saved a LOT of time by chaining. Being that this seemed like a good map for practice, I simply hit Restart Scenario.
Thorgrim was still my starting hero, but I was able to hire Clavius, Gundula, and Ivor day one! So I had three great might heroes, plus extra Elves, plus a daily gold bonus. I played the map based on what I could see, not what I knew. There were a couple chaining options early on, which found me on day six and seven hitting the Stores and Crucible I had before, but also another Crucible and a little added visibility. Thorgrim had started the game with a legion artifact, so he was in town for day one. When I took the second city, it was week two. Since Thorgrim had started the week on my home city, I never bought this week's native hero. So I built the Tavern in the second city and found Mephala! So now I had ANOTHER good fighter chaining and I cleared that area in no time.
In other words, I'm learning. And it's fun! To make things easier, Gundula had found a Pandora's Box guarded only by Gremlins to have every first level spell in it. Bless on Grand Elves when taking on a money building is very handy. By middle of the second week, any hero could take any wandering stack on I could see and I even found a third city. It will take some time to perfect, but I think I'm starting to get it now. By the start of week three, all my heroes were almost in a line, so getting the first day's creature to my hero on the front line was easy.
New questions: Doing this, no one hero was really leading the others. Well, that's not entirely true. I just checked and I have 11,000 experience amongst six heroes and Gundula has about 6,000 with Ivor in second place. Probably would've been Clavius, but I was mostly holding him back because of the liability for ditching skeletons constantly to stay quick.
Also, when I had a major fork in the road, one led to virgin country in the rough, while the other was grass that had a Dwarven Hold on grass, but another color had begun to pick stuff up in the area with a scout. In this situation, which direction would you head? On the one hand, the rough would've been ripe for chaining and getting a lot more materials. On the other hand, the grass still had some, plus the Hold, plus a two way portal. I ended up going that way and trying NOT to give in to the temptation to chase down the lowly scout and instead focus on the fighting in the area he wasn't able to do, knowing he couldn't possibly approach me because I had almost a full army with me. When I popped into the two way, I was a day's travel to yet another color's city. Which I took over despite his having three turrets in two round, losing only one turns worth of Grand Elves and one turns worth of Centaurs. It went very well, but I felt over extended. Plus, since my visibility along the other fork in the road wasn't too far away, somebody could pop in unexpectedly and be right in the middle of my thread of influence. Could've been disastrous. I considered buying a hero in this city to scout the area, and if it was safe, maybe hire my eighth to take most of the troops back towards the forks I had passed up to lunge at an opponent.
Final question: As I said, I went full random. But with having a third level archer that shoots twice day two and a fast first level creature, taking the Stores and the Crucible wasn't even a challenge. I was even able to use the fodder technique to keep the enemy away from my Elves and lay waste to the place with controlled losses. I mean, this is a GOOD thing, especially since in the past, I wouldn't have even thought to try. BUT, I don't want to get hooked on JUST Rampart, and I realize that is a great way to do well in the first week. I might stick with Rampart for now to practice chaining some more while I have the speed. But how do you guys recommend one weans themselves from this advantage?
Sorry for the long post. Learning is fun
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