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phoenixreborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
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posted November 15, 2007 04:35 PM |
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Quote:
Magnetic golems are not strictly anti-dungeon toy.. I will choose them if I take destructive for MY hero.
Yeah I'm annoyed that the game still perceives direct damage single target spells from me as dangerous to them. Sometimes I want to ressurect them by shooting them with an ice bolt and the game won't let me.
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elmek
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 15, 2007 05:03 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Magnetic golems are not strictly anti-dungeon toy.. I will choose them if I take destructive for MY hero.
Yeah I'm annoyed that the game still perceives direct damage single target spells from me as dangerous to them. Sometimes I want to ressurect them by shooting them with an ice bolt and the game won't let me.
What about if you set motw on them and cast direct damage on enemy. Will it heal them at the same time?
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phoenixreborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
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posted November 15, 2007 05:19 PM |
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Quote:
What about if you set motw on them and cast direct damage on enemy. Will it heal them at the same time?
No.
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emilsn
Legendary Hero
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posted November 15, 2007 06:49 PM |
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Quote:
Elemental Gargoyles have higher initiative and they are more durable... So they are better shooter blockers. They are only weak against destructive casters - when you shouldn't use them.
But the new gargoyles are made for the destrucktion thing, stading beside the golems, the golems will gain mor dmg! Which I think is rarely a good tactic, since the Golems are not the killing machine with Academy!
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Don't walk behind me; I may not
lead. Don't walk in front of me;
I may not follow. Just walk
beside me and be my friend.
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mamgaeater
Legendary Hero
Shroud, Flying, Trample, Haste
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posted November 16, 2007 03:20 AM |
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I disagree vermin are better than familiars.
familiars have one purpose drain mana.
vermin have high damage range.
btw crystal dragon just screams implosion fodder
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koVe
Tavern Dweller
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posted November 25, 2007 09:58 AM |
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I only read the first post, so pardon me if you answered this already, or if other people mentioned it.
I agreed with most of your analysis, but there were a few things I didn't agree with.
First, would be the vindicators. I think this is the right choice if you split the stack and get enough squires to take advantage of them, but they have too poor speed/init to really take advantage of that very often. So I'd say you do want vindicators if possible, but only if range damage is not an issue or you have the room to split the stack.
Next, would be the vamps. No enemy ret means an awful lot, and that's what you lose by going with the princes. Seems too steep for me.
Spectre dragons seem like a better choice to me as well almost all the time with death stare and better health/defense.
Everything else I agreed with completely, great thread.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted November 25, 2007 10:07 AM |
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thanks 
I'm not a fan of no retaliation, to be honest, so I don't value vamplords too high.
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tronicoz
Tavern Dweller
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posted November 25, 2007 11:03 AM |
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GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted November 25, 2007 02:30 PM |
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Goblins: The trappers are much better IMO. They are really lifesavers in creeping and do surpisingly well in large battles too. The doctors have less hp wich is bad, because both goblins rely on hp with their special. And the doctors donīt have the creeping potential as the trappers.
Exactly. Atleast on the beginning, I would take the trappers. There are not so many castings like in the rushing, and cutting neutral creatures' speed on the creeping is extremely useful.
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Centaurs Lets face it, Maneuver ability sucks! Instead of no melee penalty (wich also is good with attack skill) you get a ability that makes you vulnerable too other enemy stacks because of stupid centaurs running out in the middle of battle, and give you only half of the retaliation damage. Marauders are as you suspected my choise. There damage is just a little lower but they survive much better and can do much better damage on melee, wich centaurs sooner or later is forced too do.
It might be very useful on some conditions, but Centaur Nomads' ability solves everything. Why would anyone wants to go back, and make half, if it can just retaliate a full damage from where it is?
I prefer upgrading the Warriors to Warmonger. Only the difference of 8 HP, which is a huge difference on the 3rd level, is enough for that, the special abilities of the Warmonger are okay. Might be useful, depends of the condition. Having double damage on retaliation is great, but taking attacks instead of other creatures might be good and bad.
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Shamans: To be onest I rarely had a good oportunity to cast the chain lighting spell. On the other hand earth daughter are IMO one of the most underated cratures in the game! Have a small stack to cast spells and a large stack to engage the enemy with no retaliation expert dark magic spells! They actually hit pretty hard too and on second bloodrage level they get really tought. In late game they are a key unit.
One stack of 30 Earth Daughters can pretty an army pretty hard. It's harder to kill them than their status shows, and they do a lot of damage.
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Slayers: If you have a lot of cyclops, the chieftains can be a pretty good alternative with there special. But on the other hand you waste a lot of damage potential of not picking the midgame flagship for the orc:Executioners. There damage is awesome, there special makes bloodrage boil and they act really quick too. Like the shamans a key unit for the orcs.
Take the Executioner, it's so much better. Although the status is not perfect, you just can't avoid the fact that he has Cleave, and a 5th level creature like it almost always kills atleats one more creature. Frightful Aura is always good, as well as Bravery.
I have to admit that Commanding Presence is nice, but Order of the Chief is worth nothing, only if you can't reach any creature around...
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wyvernsOnly a fool buys the wyvern building before the cyclops. And with 20 wood cost this mediocre creatures is raley bought. If you really want them so badly I think that the Pao-Kaiīs are the least worse uppgrade.
Sometimes I don't even bother buying them. They just don't worth it. First I buy the other things.
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Cyclops: As most people know: Cyclopes rules the battleground! Since I donīt pick wyverns very often I often choose the untamed cyclops to minimize the loss of flyers in a siege. Untamed ones needs some practise too use. Have them on a flank and let them fight on their own to avoid own losses. If the enemy tries to mass attack them is their own problem Bloodeyes are more easy to play and are really good to but IMO there stats are a little bit low if compared to the mighty untamded ones.
I agree.
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emilsn
Legendary Hero
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posted November 25, 2007 02:47 PM |
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The witchdoctors can be good my gentlemen.. Atleast vs magic factions with high spellpower and low knowledge. because of their, double the mana price thing.. and if they get a good amount of bloodrage(I tried that in last campaign) no enemy relatation, hexing att. They are pretty good..
Wyverns: Hmm? I dont care, I like em... But we all know, they are really usefull with wyvern guy...
So you guys say, untamed are more usefull without wyverns??
(To elvin, genielord and a bit Doomy. Way is genielord the phoenix now? and Elvin the genie. makes no sence! Doom. Hmm? The black dragon from HoMM2, Deep respect)
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Don't walk behind me; I may not
lead. Don't walk in front of me;
I may not follow. Just walk
beside me and be my friend.
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Adon
Known Hero
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posted November 25, 2007 06:13 PM |
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I usually replace the Wyvern stack with two stacks of Earth Daughters.
Wyverns I only get once its late late game and I need something in my home town to prevent a scout from taking it over with a small army.
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Cleave
Promising
Famous Hero
Raging Blood
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posted November 25, 2007 11:06 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Slayers: If you have a lot of cyclops, the chieftains can be a pretty good alternative with there special. But on the other hand you waste a lot of damage potential of not picking the midgame flagship for the orc:Executioners. There damage is awesome, there special makes bloodrage boil and they act really quick too. Like the shamans a key unit for the orcs.
Take the Executioner, it's so much better. Although the status is not perfect, you just can't avoid the fact that he has Cleave, and a 5th level creature like it almost always kills atleats one more creature. Frightful Aura is always good, as well as Bravery.
I have to admit that Commanding Presence is nice, but Order of the Chief is worth nothing, only if you can't reach any creature around...
Cleave is great and Executionners are the backbone of the Stronghold army.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted November 25, 2007 11:23 PM |
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Hmm. Yeah that's how I usually feel but you guys have probably not seen what 20 untamed cyclopses can do with the aid of chieftains. You know what will happen in the battle? Executioners will attack and mostly die in the retaliation unless they hit something weaker in which case the strong enemy stacks will kill it later.
That won't happen with the chieftains. They'll have the cyclopses act faster and faster and will kill most of the enemies themselves. At some time the chieftains will get good rage so one warcry and they get double strike so they can join the fray. The damage they do to the cyclopses is insignificant, things will be worse if you let the enemies hit you for longer.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Adon
Known Hero
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posted November 26, 2007 03:53 AM |
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If you've got 20 untamed though you're pretty much winning the game no matter what unless they enemy has dark magic to puppet/frenzy/blind them. Executioners are much more useful until you get to that stage.
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vicheron
Known Hero
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posted November 26, 2007 06:42 AM |
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Executioners get +100 rage points for the extra hit from Cleave as well so they build up bloodrage pretty fast. The extra attack from level 3 bloodrage is also added to the attack from Cleave so they can actually get three attacks.
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elmek
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 26, 2007 07:39 AM |
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Quote:
If you've got 20 untamed though you're pretty much winning the game no matter what unless they enemy has dark magic to puppet/frenzy/blind them. Executioners are much more useful until you get to that stage.
Add Divine Vengeance to that too...
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Cleave
Promising
Famous Hero
Raging Blood
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posted November 26, 2007 05:44 PM |
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The only thing that I really like about Chieftains is their design. They look great and even better than Executionners.
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guarder
Supreme Hero
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posted November 26, 2007 05:56 PM |
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Edited by guarder at 16:26, 07 Dec 2007.
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Chieftains are good if you have six stacks with them and one stack with many Untamed cyclops. I played a map where i won against 32 zealots with 6 priestsWhat the heck had that to do with the topic? My experience with orcs in the demo:
Golin trapper: i think this is better. get it in the middle of the cyclops and shamans nad it rocks even more. Nice to stop Lizards/cavaliers. but if you're fighting a mage, witch-doctors are betters.
Centaur nomad: Maneuver is better than range penalty. The retelation are weaker but, you can shoot again(if the centaur is completely blocked. It dies faster, but can make more damage.
Warmonger. it's slower than the mauler, but then it is attacked more than it attacks. and retalation is stronger than normal attack. and with better blood rage, it get unlimited retialations.
earthdaughter: of course chain lightning are better, but if the are few enemy stcks, it will hit yourself. Hexing attack and swift attack with good attack is just a killing machinee
Executioner: With hordes of untamed cyclops, Chieftains are better, but you doesen't get that on most maps. Frightful aura and cleave is much better than worf of the chief. It stats it's weaker, but it's only higher attack. and as i said before, when you get lots of them, you always kill some of the enemy and then you get cleave
Paokai: Venom and regeneration is good, but immune tto blind, scavanger and lightning breath is better. It's weaker, but with 15 more hit points than foul wyvern and 30! more hitpoints than normal Wyvern it's just better. and with lightning breath, you can attack enemys peasant and archangles with only peasants retialate
Scavanger can be good(before you kill the whole stack).It's even better if you fight a demon lord with consume corpse(remember to eat the creature before the demon lord make it to mana)
Bloodeye cyclops: if both untamed and bloodeye had beennormal melee, untamed had won, but if he get near any of your creatures, the enemy, come and attack the untamed so he also kill your creature. Some weaker stats and dragon breath that doesn't affect your creature i think, are better than kill your own creature. You could try Cyclop massacre, but you must have many cyclops then. And lot of chieftains. With swallow and throw goblin, this creatures makes it even more feared.
Inferno:
vermin: Siphon mana is sometime better than mana stealer. mana stealer only works one time, but Siphon mana works every time, but is an activated ability. While vermin last a littler linger, it's attack can be better than familiars, but also a little weaker.
Horned grunt: It dies very fast, 1 def! But to balance it, it have leap. A great ability to deal damage to the enemy far away. It lose explosion, but it is worth it.
Firehound: a hard desiscion. A good ability against stats. The firehound have higher defense so it survives longer. If you have grawl with a high level, and teleport assault+master of speed and a little luck you get this:
Enemy=X
Firehound=F
X
X
FXX
X
X
Succubus seducer:
The secucer trades one initiative against two hp from the mistress. It also trades Chain shot with seduction and immune to puppet master. Nat a bad deal i must say.
Nightmare: It survives longer, but it's attack is weaker also it don't have searing aura, but it have frightful aura, place it between enemies stack(preferable a good fighter and a shooter) and both loses three morale. If the enemy is a necromancer, take hell stallion, but if the enemy doesen't have leadership and not any morale boosts-3 to morale is great.
Pit lord: This have vorpal axe and is a caster.What is better? a caster with endless mana as long as the enemy hero have(vermins) or a level one killer that is 50% resistance to magic?
Arch devil: the summon pit lord is great when you have vermins. Arch demons can be good with master of speed and speed boosting artifacts and tactics. Ex summon enemy archer to you and let your slow troops take care of it, while your archdemons kill the others
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V3Z0W
Hired Hero
Griffin Eternal.
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posted December 07, 2007 10:10 AM |
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I'm a bit late...Hmmm...I can't read 14 pg...could you guys give me a clue about the recent subject plss?
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Elrath is with us.He always caries victory with him.
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guarder
Supreme Hero
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posted December 07, 2007 04:02 PM |
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Yeah i know, but i don't had much time with the demo. i got the demo 23. oct and have only had time to play it a week
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