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| Thread: A Guiding Christian |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT» |
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted July 20, 2007 06:52 PM |
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Edited by Consis at 18:55, 20 Jul 2007.
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A Guiding Christian
In this thread all comments and spam are welcome.
One of a christian's highest laws is that we do not judge others lest we ourselves be judged....not by our fellow Heroes Community members but by God. Logically speaking, if one believes in God then he or she is equal under all laws without exception. If anyone claiming to be christian attempts to belittle others in any way then I will ask that you stop. We christians are not better people, nor are we higher, nor are we greater, nor are we any more significant human beings. Under God we are all sinners, we are all orphans, we are all children of God. God loves us equally without exception. There is none more understanding, more forgiving, more merciful, more loving than God.
I believe in many things and I hope to post responses to each and every question posted in this thread regarding christianity. I also believe that God has given us science and logic and many other fields of study meant to help us learn more about the wonderful existence God has given us. Existence itself is sacred. I may not have all the answers but I will try to explain as best I can. I will be a sort of quasi-mini-moderator for this thread. In truth I have no authority of any kind. But I will please ask only my fellow christian members to not insult or attack or phrase your arguments in any way that can be seen as asserting your beliefs over someone else's.
I consider myself a Christian today. This is following a very long time of processing information and experiences as I have received them over many years. I believe in science and God. I believe God wishes me to study all that can be studied about the nature of existence so that we can hope to comprehend everlasting mercy, kindness, forgiveness, love, and the great importance for being alive. I believe people have souls. I believe in heaven. I do not believe that we go to a "better place" when we die. I believe God wants us to live and make the most of our lives by learning, growing, and thanking God for the existence God has given us. I do not pretend to know God but I certainly believe that God is a living loving God, not a warrior God, nor a calculating God, nor an omnipotent universal equalizer meant to bring balance to the world and all of space and time. I believe God is all knowing and is constantly trying to show us that love conquers all.
I have not yet devoted my life to Christ. I believe Jesus is teaching me many lessons on how to live my life. I was raised a Mormon and I am currently a Presbyterian member. Presbyterian is a form of Protestant christianity. I am still researching, praying, and asking myself if Jesus was truly the son of God. Until I do, I cannot devote myself to Christ. Thus far I have found nothing but love and compassion at every turn for everything I find in his life. I have taken the cross as my most hopeful and loving and joyful symbol. To me the cross is of the greatest historic humankind victories. To think that it was once what all people feared under roman domination and to have it turned into a symbol of love and mercy....has been always inspiring to me.
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Roses Are Red And So Am I
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Setitetart
Known Hero
Reality check....
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posted July 21, 2007 01:14 AM |
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Quote:
I will be a sort of quasi-mini-moderator for this thread. In truth I have no authority of any kind. But I will please ask only my fellow christian members to not insult or attack or phrase your arguments in any way that can be seen as asserting your beliefs over someone else's.
If memory serves me I believe that you were expressly told to NOT act like a moderator by Valeriy....
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I am making this post as a moderator of this forum.
I have sent you an IM, but recieved no reply, so this calls for the following post.
From my point of view you have been taking on two extra roles in this thread, and thereby made people annoyed and upset. Those are the roles of moderator and god.
You seem to tell people, in rather offensive manner, what an ontopic and offtopic post is. And you also tell people how the Bible is to be used and how the Bible is not to be used. You have a perfect right to say that a post is off-topic and to say that Bible should not be used a certain way. But as a moderator I ask you to stop acting like your opinion on these matters is THE truth and acting like other people are inferior for having an opinion that differs from yours.
I think your discrimination against people who use Bible in a certain way is not very different from discrimination that some people have towards gay people.
and you say:
Quote:
But I will please ask only my fellow christian members to not insult or attack or phrase your arguments in any way that can be seen as asserting your beliefs over someone else's.
Then this will not go well or lack substance, because you can't debate anything, THAT would be like asserting your belief would it not?
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I consider myself a Christian today..
BUT...you follow that up with....
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I have not yet devoted my life to Christ..
Explain to me please how you can truly consider yourself a christian and yet, have NOT devoted yourself and your life to Christ?
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"Do you think we should drive a stake through his heart, just in case?"
~ Peter Lorre to Vincent Price at Bela Lugosi's funeral
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violent_flower
Promising
Supreme Hero
Almost there.
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posted July 21, 2007 02:01 AM |
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A whole thread of contradictions, oh goody how fun. And not to mention we may not state our own beliefs or step on the toes of others as we respond to this thread. Sounds like a roller coaster ride where you don't actually move you just sit in your seat and make woohoo noises. Hey the damn boat won't move out of the harbor Consis unless you rock it a bit.
{quote]But I will please ask only my fellow christian members to not insult or attack or phrase your arguments in any way that can be seen as asserting your beliefs over someone else's.
So since I'm not your fellow Christian I can say what ever the hell I want then? Ok now this could be fun..*goes across the room to stare at the wall as this is more fun***
As my niece pointed out I too would like to know how one is a Christian without devoting yourself to the one you worship and pray to.?
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted July 21, 2007 02:04 AM |
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You mean a wannabe Moderator in Moderation Jake  .
Thats simple Flower.
Whatever your mother's religion is, that is who you are.
You can change it but thats basically how it works.
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Dreaming of a Better World
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted July 21, 2007 03:40 AM |
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Edited by Consis at 03:43, 21 Jul 2007.
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As I See It....
Setitetart,
I think I made it clear that I have no authority. By posing as a sort of mini-quasi-moderator I'm only trying to help keep a sense of civility that seems to have been lost in other threads. When a christian barges in the door and starts pointing fingers and passing judgment then he/she is not behaving appropriately by the laws that govern a christian.
I don't think this thread will lack substance. There are many beliefs to a christian. These beliefs are few and far between. It is possible for a person to state their own personal religious views without asserting them over other people. A person can simply say, "This is what I believe. Others may not and I do not judge them for it. I find strength in my beliefs. It is God's will that I not judge other people."
I believe that a person can be a christian even if they aren't necessarily devoted to Christ. I go to church, pray, sing to God, and offer much in the way of spiritual counseling to my own children as best I can to help familiarize them with God's love.
Violent_Flower,
I understand that you are not the only person to argue the number of contradictions in christianity. I see many also, but I still feel compelled to learn more about Jesus.
Part of being a christian, at least in my mind, means not pointing to others and declaring if they are wrong or right. I simply believe that God knows best with regard to right & wrong thus I shouldn't try to play God by judging for myself whose person is flawed or not. I am directing (unofficially) other christian believers to try to be less judgmental. A person can have strong views and opinions regarding his/her faith but that does not give them the right to call people "evil" or a "gentile" or some sort of degrading remark. My discussion is entirely limited to this thread. I will not go out of this thread to discuss my christianity out of respect for other Heroes Community members who may not share my beliefs.
But I do worship and pray to Jesus and God. I have not, however, devoted my life to christ yet. I have not yet given my heart and life over fully. I don't fully believe 100% of the christian tenets of faith. But I'm constantly being compelled to go back for more inspiration from Jesus over all the others.
Aculias,
I am not a christian simply because my mother was. In fact I stopped going to church and walked my own path for many years. I still was not convinced even when I joined Heroes Community. Even then I had not yet considered myself a christian.
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Roses Are RedAnd So Am I
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violent_flower
Promising
Supreme Hero
Almost there.
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posted July 21, 2007 06:09 AM |
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Quote:
laws that govern a Christian
What are these laws you speak of?
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Learn how to duck and weave because I will throw truth at you all day!
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted July 21, 2007 07:23 AM |
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That is the way it is when you are born.
What you decide after it is up to you.
I was born a Catholic but I didnt fully follow it.
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Dreaming of a Better World
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted July 21, 2007 06:37 PM |
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It Doesn't Matter Anymore
Someone rated this thread: "To Delete"
I don't know if it was a moderator, a member, or Valeriy. Either way...I get the message. I won't bother with it. Some things are best left to personal info, I suppose this is one. There is no point in talking about it if people don't want to.
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Roses Are RedAnd So Am I
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Setitetart
Known Hero
Reality check....
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posted July 21, 2007 09:11 PM |
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Quote:
Someone rated this thread: "To Delete"
I don't know if it was a moderator, a member, or Valeriy. Either way...I get the message. I won't bother with it. Some things are best left to personal info, I suppose this is one. There is no point in talking about it if people don't want to.
I don't think it isnt that people DON'T want to talk about it.
People obviously have opinions they want to express, but NO ONE and I mean NO ONE, wants to get their *** handed to them for speaking truthfully about this topic just because their opinion differs from someone else's.
And you've pretty much made it abundantly clear that the most noise that was going to be allowed on this was akin to crickets chirping.
Just my take on it.
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"Do you think we should drive a stake through his heart, just in case?"
~ Peter Lorre to Vincent Price at Bela Lugosi's funeral
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GothCowboy
Hired Hero
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posted July 21, 2007 09:33 PM |
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{quote}
I believe that a person can be a christian even if they aren't necessarily devoted to Christ. I go to church, pray, sing to God, and offer much in the way of spiritual counseling to my own children as best I can to help familiarize them with God's love.
{quote}
so what you are telling everyone, is you are just going through the motions to show how good you are. this sounds like an old bible story i once heard about a rich man that wanted everyone to think he was the most rightous(sp?) of men. go through the motion, but in actuallity, you don't care what is being taught. it just makes you look good.
my belief is this, if you go to church, sing, pray, and teach your children the word, then you should be devoted, otherwise i don't want to hear it.
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If you don't want the truth, then don't ask.
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted July 22, 2007 06:06 PM |
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Edited by Consis at 18:12, 22 Jul 2007.
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It turns out that whomever labeled this thread "to delete" was indeed NOT a moderator or Valeriy. I have been informed that persons of authority make a post, label the thread, and lock it out entirely under such circumstances..
In the "Gay People" thread Binabik posted this:
Let's see, HC has turned into a haven for extreme liberalism. Anyone who dares to express a view that's even the least bit conservative is immediately attack by 50 people.
Honest duel? Hardly.
Liberals only. Alternate viewpoints not welcome here.
I think that might be true, but I would carry it further by specifying it to religious postings by christians. With respect, I do think that the flood of outcries against christian posters is actually justified in some ways.
First of all not every conservative is a christian and not every christian is a conservative. I'm not truly convinced that the people who post on the internet are most liberal but I am convinced that these people have great misgivings in regards to christians. Here are some reasons why I think that may be:
1. Many people claiming to be christian often attempt to easily and simply define life and existence without at all getting up off their lazy behinds to research and discover it for themselves.
2. Many of those same people often use their christian beliefs as an excuse to not need science.
3. And many of those people also use their christian status as some kind of auto-judgment indicator to somehow classify themselves as better people on some spiritual scale or otherwise.
4. Many of the members who come here have been sorely mistreated and abused in their real lives by christians. They come here and see a christian expressing their views and they immediately feel their private space is being invaded by the same kind of person they might have been fleeing.
5. History of course.....speaks for itself. Historic christians have done a great deal of terrible things in the name of God. For example: "God is on our side in this war. God says I should burn you for heresy. God says I should torture you for your crimes. God says we should kill and destroy your city and your religion." Etc....
On the whole, I am not at all surprised to see people so strongly oppose christians here in this place. In fact the French & Bolshevik revolutions owe much of their great success to the validity of the points I have just given. No, I'm not at all suprised or offended. Indeed a good christian of today should be somewhat apologetic. I'm a southerner born-and-raised. My fellow southerners are extremely apologetic and many actually consistently are passing down the apology through the generations in their children for yet another example of christian hypocrasy from actually endorsing wholesale literal human slavery.
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Roses Are RedAnd So Am I
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted July 22, 2007 06:11 PM |
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Quote:
In this thread all comments and spam are welcome.
I'm dreaming... This has got to be a dream...
OH MY GOD THE PARADISE THREAD!
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted February 26, 2009 08:30 PM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 20:31, 26 Feb 2009.
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Father, I may not necessarily speak about Christianity right now, but I noticed you speak of freedom (as in free will) to choose (which is related). You speak that, no one is free because what we choose have different consequences? This is precisely what makes something free. If the consequences are the same no matter what you do then you do not have any freedom. On the other hand, if the consequences are different (not necessarily bad or better, just different) then you can truly say that you chose that, in effect you were free. Killing a man for example, obviously has different consequences than helping him, and we can choose that.
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I feel it is a business and it is all about the money. Plain and simple as that.
The alternative is even more about money. Religion would ban some products/practices that give rise to a lot of industries ('medical' mostly, but not about healthcare, but let's say "nonreconstructive surgery"). It's actually against capitalism/money from this point of view.
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The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 26, 2009 10:39 PM |
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Edited by xerox at 22:41, 26 Feb 2009.
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Omg you cant tell your children to believe in some religion or influence them in anything like that.
They should choose themself, not be influenced, forced, brainwashed and manipulated by their parents.
And from reading the first post.
This means I can flame all religions except buddhism (because it isnt a religion to be honest) and you cant say anything to oppose me?
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted February 26, 2009 11:23 PM |
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Edited by Consis at 23:28, 26 Feb 2009.
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Ugh . . .
I still have a problem with calling you that name so I'll simply call you by your avatar: "Lestat" played by Tom Cruise
By the way I've read all the Anne Rice vampire novels and I love them.
Lestat,
I was in fact raised my entire childhood as a Mormon. And I notice you are beginning to pick up on the inherent flaws of that religion. If you think you could go on and on about it.....well I could write a full thousand page book on it. All of your assumptions thus far reflect my opinion as well.
With regard to your son you should know they don't stop there and are not age specific. The bishop of our church had my father believing the same thing. He would tell me how he felt awful for masturbating. I just looked at him and rolled my eyes. I thought to myself....first of all why the hell is telling ME this, and second why is it evil? Even my own mother would tell my father that it was evil.
Your son is not evil and the persons in each church who pretend to know that it is are most certainly not experts. My opinion is who the hell cares what it is or isn't? Why the hell am I talking about it when we have a world with wars and starvation and such? That's my opinion on it. I would simply rather not talk about it because in my mind it is wholly unimportant and has little if any significance with regard to ANYTHING. It's just completely mental that some people find a way to link it to almost anything in a conversation! Ok wait I take that back, I've heard some of the funniest lines from comedians about it to the point I was in tears from laughing so hard.
Here's the deal with the Mormon church Lestat: It's Corporate Christianity. Now what does that mean you might ask? Ask yourself why they wear the suits. Ask yourself why they need an addending "memo" to the bible. And ask yourself the ultimate question that no other religion has been successful at attempting to answer: How do we make a wallstreet form of christianity? How could a historically Franciscan-based religion own stocks and increase its credit score?
Well my friend the answer is, as usual, right in front of our very noses. The answer is how the British became the largest empire the world has ever known. The difference is that the sea is now the global stock market and the ships are cookie cutter designed million-dollar costing pieces of LDS real estate. That's what it takes to have one of those churches you might have seen in your neighborhood. It cost 1 million dollars for each one. Whereas the ancient european churches became state churches so too is this religion seeking the same thing in a global stock market. They consider themselves more american than most americans and it is a proven fact that they do indeed participate in what's known as "bloc voting".
But don't try as many have and make the mistake of trying to say "Mormon are plotting to take over the world just like the jews". That could not be further from the truth. The truth is what history always teaches us, exactly as you pointed out in your post: Human beings are often called homoreligious rather than homosapien. And there is some good evidence to back this claim but also keep in mind the "human" part of being. Remember your Tolkien....he may have been writing about fantasy mythical things but it was still no less true when he came to describing the world of men. He says in his epic novel of all the races in existence there are none more driven by the quest for power. They desire it above all else.
And so too is mormonism nothing more than yet another religion, nothing historically new, and yet a constant reminder we must all be wary of those persons or groups of persons who seek to gain power over others. The founders of our country knew that it can come not only in the form of a tyrant but also any group of persons such as religions, courts, and legislative bodies as well.
And while you digest that please keep in mind that this is a religion with a very large percentage of what we like to call "fence-sitters". The moment that organization experiences how people truly feel about it you may be surprised at how few are left to defend its beliefs.....especially their views on women holding positions of authority.
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Roses Are RedAnd So Am I
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kainc
Famous Hero
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posted February 26, 2009 11:54 PM |
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*sigh*
I once said I wouldnt participate on any religious topics here. Why? because not too many people can talk about religion / christianity / God / Jesus in a mature way (ok, now someone will say how can you talk about it in a mature way since they are childrens' fairytales?). But being christian myself I understand what you mean, Consis.
I'm not "good" believer. By saying good, I mean how "world" sees a stereotypic believer. I have no right to judge anyone, as no other christian should do. By judging others I'd dig my own grave, since IF faith was about acts and trying to score some "heaven points" by doing some deeds that you'd do ONLY because... umm... you need 50 heaven points to advance the heaven level 3, my score would be around 3. As I see it, faith brings desire to do good because faith brings understanding that we're all God's children, and we need to help those who need it (it sounds so plain and simple expained here but it is a state of mind, a bit complex to describe). Yes, there are many believers that doesn't act like this, and IMO they haven't understood the full message of gospel. Oooops! I'm one of those people, and I believe there are... like 99,99% of believers who do things against their belief in some point of their lives. Why? As I see it, it's because of the original sin and human nature. But as we realize we have done something that harmed something / someone in some way, we usually regret it from the heart (not just oh snowe, I cheated my best friend with his girlfriend, sorry God. In this case I, according to my faith, believe God would want me to correct the damage I've done to those people, if there's anything to be done in this case, as most important thing to do, and then committing my sins and regretting).
One thing I dislike tho; how some people read bible: they want to search every word that could turn over the whole thing. But the whole message is not a single verse from chapter X. If you don't want to believe it and read with "this is bullsnow" attitude, it wont shoot holy bolts (not the ones in Diablo  ) into your face and make you believe. But is it neccessary to point some specific thing to be absurd to a believer, and try to make him questioning his faith? It would be far easier to just ignore conversations like this if you think it's rubbish. By saying that I'm not pointing any of you here, believe me, I haven't even read all posts. This is a common picture of mine.
These words are just IMO, and no-one should take 'em personally, or be offended. I haven't been believer that long and have done some things in my life that should have been left undone, so I'm no saint. And I will not bring religion to non-religion-related topics. If you are fine the way you are without faith I won't try to turn you into christian or anything. You are equally cool ppl here, and I love to discuss different topics here in HC with ya.
I'm not going to argue so no need to bother, I'll give up already
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted February 27, 2009 02:29 AM |
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Quote:
I appreciated your comments when you related to my son and how the church doesn't stop at age. Again, very true. There are still several members of my extended family that are die hard Mormons. Each of them can't stand topics such as masturbation or any other that may wrinkle their nose. The "Straight and Narrow" and "Hold to the Rod". Goodness sakes, that church has more sayings than a Greek Philosopher.
I wouldn't blame only Mormons for that, as I have pointed out in other threads there are lots of people who 'behave' similarly, but with... let's just say arguments instead of dogma
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The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted February 27, 2009 09:21 PM |
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Edited by Consis at 21:26, 27 Feb 2009.
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Lestat,
Quote:
I know in this case for a fact that it is the direct teachings of the LDS church that affected my x-wife and thus my son so badly. I have tried for years to pull her away from her self imposed "need" to be a member of their organization.
There is your first mistake. You don't seem to understand that this religion is built largely on the concept that it is not only possible but expected that other people will want to take someone away from their ranks. Their most favorite story they teach in complete and utter support of this is the rod. In this little synopsis there is a group of people laughing and jeering at those who hold on to the rod. You have to understand that this religion thrives on the concept that it is a religion that other people don't like. So the more you try and pull someone away from it the more you will find exactly how hard that is. In my opinion that is where most people go wrong when they find themselves in your position. The church's philosophy is psychologically designed to tighten its hold on those persons whom they fear are being "led astray by satan". There will be more meetings, group discussions, in-church sermons, and even recreational activities that openly admit the need to keep these people on the straight and narrow. If you want to pull your son away from this religion then simply do what everyone else does. This religion is actually designed to thrive on contraversy. Thus the more you ignore their precepts and the more you consistently use scientific research to back up your arguments you will find the individual at odds with the teachings of this religion.
It is very odd because all the other religions don't seem to be phased by scientific questioning and research but this one seems to take a major blow from it. I have yet to understand why the Mormon philosophy so easily loses members to scientific dogma. Everyone knows most other religions only seem to get stronger in the face of scientific argument....but not this one.
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I wonder Consis, what is the actual Christian view on how one leads his/her life? I mean, not the regular stuff, but as it compares to the Mormons. Follow me? For instance; There are several "suggestions" in the church that they "ask" their members to follow.
You are missing the bigger picture here with regard to the specifics. What they "ask" isn't as important as "why" they ask. Look around you. Look at the other religions in your neighborhood. You might notice each one meets and organizes events and stuff on a regular basis. You might notice that people of each become very comfortable with a regular time to come to church on a particular day. But what you are not likely to see is a change in the routine. The Mormon corporate structure is designed to ask small mundane tasks from its member over a long period of time while constantly changing routine group behaviors so as to encounter much less resistance when it asks the members for something big like voting. This tactic is nothing new at all. The military uses it quite often. It's all part of a system designed to gradually decrease the natural human instinct to become complacent. And why? The answer is because complacent people are not likely to want to change anything at all. It's a smart thing to do if you want large groups of people to vote in a certain way. You might often hear some others more dramatic critics call them "sheeple" (sheep/people) The scientific psycholigical theory is that if you want someone to make a big change without a revolution then you need to first get that person to make about a hundred or more smaller changes so that when the time comes to make a big change you can simply argue to the person that they've "already made all these other changes so why not make this big one"? And then add, "It's what all your friends are doing".
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Roses Are RedAnd So Am I
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted February 28, 2009 06:27 AM |
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Huh?
You mean you want know what I believe today? Is that what I'm not addressing?
*goes back to read through your first post*
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Roses Are RedAnd So Am I
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted February 28, 2009 07:18 AM |
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Edited by Consis at 07:19, 28 Feb 2009.
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Lestat,
Quote:
Consis. You and I started off not only on the wrong foot, but continued to walk that way for a mile or so. I'm not quite sure what caused it really. I have looked back over some of our previous comments to each other and I'm a bit confused. I'm confused because of the comments in your first post in this thread. I really feel that I was judged by you or at least insulted (in the other threads) because of my life &/or choices.
Of all the things you said in your first handful of posts to this message board forum, you never once pointed out a reasonable explanation why it's ok to marry a woman, have children with her, and then leave. I disagree with this whether you are homosexual or not. I never once heard you describe how hard you worked at trying to keep the marriage together before leaving. And so I still disagree with you there. And if I hear you say it was because finally found your true self while being married to her then I think I'll be sick to my stomach. I am a person who believes much of who we really are lies in what we learn from a life partner.....not in how we can figure out the secrets to life all on our own. I believe that a marriage is defined by spending the rest of your natural life getting to know someone. I didnt get married because I wanted to spend the rest of my life "with" someone. I got married because I saw a woman that I would like to spend the rest of my life getting to know better than anyone else on this planet. That is the attraction for me. I get to say to other people, "No one knows my wife better than me. I've made it my life goal to get to know her better." To me that is a piece of jewelry to carry around in your heart more valuable than any rare gem cut by the finest crafter in all the world.
Quote:
I noticed from your first post Consis that you were born into the Mormon faith. I myself wasn't, however I did join the church when I was 19. Our paths in life have most certainly led us in different directions but I wonder if the view is different as well from where we stand.
More than you know. I lived in Las Vegas Nevada for 7 years and even went to church there. I sat in a stake conference of about 3,000 people when the speaker told everyone how to vote. And as I stood up to leave I noticed I was the only man who did so. And I distinctly recall seeing a single african american family sitting in front of me who stayed there in a sea of white people. It's a stark reminder of the truth about that religion for me.
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I have issues with the Mormon faith for sure, but not all Christianity as a whole. Indeed, if you ask a member of the LDS church if they are Christian they will tell you that they are. "To be Christian, one must simply believe in Christ" they would say.
Yes they make this claim and yet every other christian sect, from the extreme to the moderate, on the planet would disagree with it for any number of reasons.
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Ok, IMO the Mormon faith teaches its principals in a very manipulative manner. They teach of love, family values, good morals etc...etc... Yet they use Fear and Guilt to enforce them.
It is designed for this. You have to remember that this is one of the few religions who actually evolve over time. It is changed by its heirarchy and then denied as time passes. I'm not making this up. It's well documented in the library of congress. Mormonism is in fact an evolving religion which makes it the most effective in today's world.
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Indeed they even practice what they preach. There are many wonderful programs within the church to help all in need. On the surface, that church is just as right as rain. It takes much more to figure out the true source of their motivation however, & I don't feel it has one lick to do with Christ.
Try to remember that just as surely as we can say it's natural human behavior to crave and lust for power, so too is there a natural prevailing good natured spirit. What all religions do is try to lay claim to the good natured spirit in human beings. Then the very much human leaders of the religion can say "they" have the secret to happiness. "Come with us because we know something you don't and we'll only teach it to you if you join us" blah blah blah....
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If you were to ask a member of the church a question, they will respond with a pretty good answer almost all the time. They have an answer for everything really. They are very good at what they do. & in the member's defense, many have no clue as to what is really going on right under their noses. The church plays on several things in order to get what they want....
More than you know. This religion has picked up on a cookie-cutter style of monotone verbal communication. And in fact if they think your decibel levels raise too high they say "the spirit is not with you". You see one of our worst and most endearing historic bad habits of being American is that we seem to raise our voice when we arent getting what we want. I'm not joking when I say historic. The American troops sent to Britain to help in the allied invasion for D-Day in WWII were issued a pamphlet in which they were actually told not to think less of the europeans if they speak softly. I myself have even spoken to some euro friends of mine on a speaking internet program called teamspeak in which they thought it was funny how americans always seemed to talk loudly. And I said to them, "we do?" The guy says to me, "I always thought the softer the voice the more you had to worry". Not shortly after he said this the other europeans of different nationalities began each agreeing with a humming sort of grunt.
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1) People love to be accepted and needed as a group or community.
2) People have an innate need to just believe in something. Give them a logical reason to believe, follow it up with the age old "faith" and send them on their way.
Actually this is true but....and this is a very big "but" young males from ages 10 to 16 are the most succeptable to this. This too is well documented in the Vietnam war. If you were a young male of that age, then that is the choice age for being stolen away from your village and forced into service for a local army/militia. Not sure why exactly but the young male of this age is extremely open to older male influence.
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1) It is standard procedure in the church to discipline a member who has transgressed by "Dis fellowship". Keep in mind this is not a personal punishment from God. What this does is takes away the members right to take Sacrament (Sacrament is like Communion with the bread and water) with everyone else. They are also not allowed to pray in the classes and various meetings nor are they allowed to even talk in those meetings. Thus they only punish #1 listed above. They take that need away as a punishment.
This punishment was not designed for your son. This punishment was designed to help keep elderly people in line. They are the most routine and the least likely to want to change thus by simply changing this is like some form of deep punishment that irks them. Funny part is I really dont think it works, lol.
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2) This gets back to my son. My son has felt his entire life that he was a bad boy and was going to hell. He thought that because he didn't want to belong to the church that he was condemned to hell. Even though his heart was not there they still ground into him the same lessons every Sunday as his mom would make him go to church. This came up recently with the Scouting program. He really didn't want to do it and when I asked him about it he was afraid of quitting because he didn't want to be bad and go to hell. It is brainwashing really, that is what it boils down to.
No no no no.......how many times must I say this: it's not the church he is afraid of losing or his soul or anything metaphorical like that. That's just you falling into the mystic juju put a hex on you mojo superstitious mind game played by all homoreligious beings from everything to a witchdoctor, shaman, on up to a full fledged priest or pope. When your son says he's afraid of anything and I mean ANYTHING at all in relation to the church it only means one single thing. It means the boy has made some very good and very healthy friends of his age group there. And every single threat or curse or whatever religious mumbo jumbo they try to "bestow" upon him only means one thing: he wont get to see his friends anymore. And everyone knows how devastating this can be for a boy his age. And yes it is a very low tactic to use his friends as leverage against him to make him worship in a certain way. All you have to do is ensure you find him other friends or somehow maintain contact between him and those friends he made there.
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The members of this church don't even know it or see it, that alone helps to prove my point. They are not free (even though they even have a lesson for that "Free Agency"). Oh yes, every man has the right to choose and do as they wish...and here are the consequences if you don't follow what we say. People I could go on and on and on here.
Whoa....slow down
Wouldnt it be nice if we could excuse people for doing what their friends are doing. I'm afraid these people know exactly what they are doing. To excuse them would be to excuse their choices when they cast a vote. And in my book you reap what you sow. There is a very good reason why President Lincoln refused to let them enter the civil war and it wasn't because they dont know or see what they are doing.
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I would like to hear more of your views and where you stand today a couple years later after you started this thread.
My current religious standing is that I still have not accepted Jesus as the son of God but I still believe in many things christian and I still attend church regularly every Sunday with my wife and 3 children. I would say I have begun to take a religious stance of the founding fathers. Seperation of church and state and the most important piece of understanding a christian will ever need to know: slavery is never ok under any circumstances. It wasn't for Moses and it wasn't for the africans brought to America to work in the fields. And the bible does indeed condemn slavery no matter what some debaters may say. I believe this with every fiber of my being.
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Roses Are RedAnd So Am I
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