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| Thread: Word of Light / Curse of the Netherworld |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Moonlith
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
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posted September 21, 2007 08:07 PM |
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PS:
COTN and HW are fairly ok in creeping when you face a bunch of stacks, where this spell could whipe out ALL enemies at once. In such cases, it's very lovely.
But as for the first poster's suggestion, that actually DOES sound very lovely. I wonder who could make that though ?
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Nirual
Famous Hero
Imbued Ballista
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posted September 21, 2007 08:38 PM |
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Edited by Nirual at 20:45, 21 Sep 2007.
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Curse of the Netherworld is alright, but Word of Light should give a bit more bang for the buck since:
- Light Mastery is usally used by might-oriented heroes since it mainly affects units. As such, they have low spellpower, and maybe don't even have Sorcery.
- Word of Light only gets a +4 spellpower from Master of Wrath apart from the effect of Light Mastery, the lowest benefit of all spells in the school except for Magic Immunity and Ressurection. So does CotN, though.
- Word of Light is much more situational than CotN and Armageddon, although that also means that your own units usally don't get affected. Still, for a spell that only affects the undead and demons, it's a pretty weak spell. In fact, it is perhaps the most situational spell in the entire game, except for Vessel of Shalassa.
- A minor artifact can be used by the two factions affected in the first place to become immune to Word of Light! Not that anyone would bother with it unless you don't have anything better for that slot, but still...
as for the suggested changes, the problem is that anyone with the respective Mastery is probably going to cast all mass-casts first, meaning that the blessing/curse part won't really affect anyone. Besides, if Word of Light would only heal, the effect will be pretty minor on most stacks (tier 5 or lower).
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godlyatheist
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 22, 2007 07:26 AM |
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Replace Word of Light with Prayer from HoMM3. Make CotN a lvl 2 like it was before and have vampirism take its place
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86wyp
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 22, 2007 08:44 AM |
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Edited by 86wyp at 08:55, 22 Sep 2007.
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Someone argues that CoTN is less powerful than a lucky empowered implosion, I agree. But I want to point out that if it is that powerful the dark magic school is imbalanced. Because the dark magic is not designed to do direct damage, they are mean to curse the targets. While destructive magics are all DD spells and implosion or shower maybe the only option. And if you do the math correctly£¬you will see that with the same spellpower let's say 25, CoTN does more overall damage than empowered implosion When hitting 6 or 7 targets, Note that master of pain adds 32damage to each target.
Also I should mention: 1. empowered spell is a racial ability like MOTN 2. COTN costs only 9 or 7 mana.
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sdfx
Famous Hero
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posted September 22, 2007 09:39 AM |
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Well it's like CotN gives a great effect compared to NO EFFECT.
But if CotN is compared to a puppet master that's another story..
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted September 22, 2007 10:46 AM |
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Perhaps they should change WoL to heal up the friendly stacks and giving random blessings, while CotN should damage enemy units and give some random curses. I believe this was suggested by someone else in this topic as well, and I think it's a good idea.
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okrane
Famous Hero
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posted September 22, 2007 10:51 AM |
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Edited by okrane at 10:53, 22 Sep 2007.
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We shouldn't get far of the main question.
I agree they have their uses, but the problem remeins: HOW GOOD ARE THEY COMPARED TO THEIR COUNTERPARTS???
I am really disappointed when I get one of these in stead of Resurrection / Puppet Master.
What if you are Haven and you get them both in your mage guild at level 5 (not to mention that for haven CotN is useless... it should only damage or curse the enemy... at least to make them worth while for haven.)
What if you are a wizard doing MMR and you get
WoL / CotN / Arcane Armour in your lvl 5 guild? How's that?
The truth is, even though they could have uses they are so limited that you'll always find something better to cast.
The point of having a damaging spell in Light / Dark spell book is not that great. I prefer sticking to the original theme of the schools and blessing or cursing the enemy.
They can increase / decrease moral, luck, speed, cast random blesses, any of that, and they would be useful. Not a damaging situational spell.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted September 22, 2007 11:20 AM |
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I agree very much with okrane's post. The spells are not useless, but compared to the other spells of their level, they are way below par. It seems a bit absurd that not only the other level 5 spell, but also both level 4 Dark Magic spells are way more powerful than COTN.
And yes, the math saying that COTN might do more damage than Implosion is very true - however, often, you will find that doing 440 damage to one stack will be more useful than doing 144 damage to many. At least, that's my belief.
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What will happen now?
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86wyp
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 22, 2007 04:47 PM |
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For an obvious reason only Necro and Inferno can use CoTN freely. These two spells are designed with an unnecessary restrict, and that would be my reason to mod them.
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dschingi
Famous Hero
the guy with the dragon golem
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posted September 22, 2007 08:33 PM |
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Any of the suggestions here would be an improvement compared to the current situation. Personally I like Moonlith's best.
Quote:
level 4 - Blind and COTN
level 5 - Puppet master and Frenzy
This would make the spells of both levels more equal in terms of power and other than the current system it's reliable to give you at least 1 lvl5 spell that has a use in most battles.
As Maurice said healing could be nice for Word of Light, maybe paired with a Mass Cleansing (so basically like mass cure in H3) and/or effects like the prayer spell in H3/H4.
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okrane
Famous Hero
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posted September 23, 2007 11:57 AM |
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I would like that. Only if it would be done. I hope someone hears this.
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Moonlith
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
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posted September 23, 2007 12:41 PM |
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Edited by Moonlith at 12:42, 23 Sep 2007.
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Weee my idea gets liked! XD
Now I'm not really sure, I like having both frenzy and puppet master in my guild (I like frenzy a lot more than puppetmaster, actually...)
But, then, I guess having the ensurance of getting either Frenzy or Puppet master is a lot better than running the risk of getting blind and COTN.
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted October 25, 2007 05:34 PM |
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The new CotN
So what do you think about the new version? I am truly impressed. It is so good that I use it almost all the time. What bothers me is that this spell makes Necro campaign just a cruise. I have just a several Ghosts as my army, which has destroyed enemy Heroes leveling 23 with a nice army consisting of all of their troops. I don´t have to micromanage the battle like with a Phoenix, nor do I basically need to do anything besides cast that single spell.
I am happy that hey improved this but now it feels like Armageddon. No, it feels much better than Armageddon because it doesn´t damage my troops at all.
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sdfx
Famous Hero
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posted October 25, 2007 05:44 PM |
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Yeah, the new formula is 144 + SP*12 so now it starts with 12 spellpower(12*12=144). 300+ damage to all stack = total 2100+ damage. Stupid necro rush.
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Nirual
Famous Hero
Imbued Ballista
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posted October 25, 2007 06:04 PM |
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Yeah, the new CotN is a force to be reckoned with considering the big spellpower of Necromancers, but it's still somewhat on par with Vampirism and Puppet Master. PM is better to deal with particular dangerous stacks, and Vampirism makes your best own stacks even better. CotN is more of an overall solution, dealing good damage to everything, but often enough you might want to deal with a particular stack first.
Same applies to Word of Light, although it's more situational.
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In ur base killing ur doods... and raising them as undeads.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted October 25, 2007 06:26 PM |
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Against an enemy taht can't defend himself against dark or has a limited way of doing so (stronghold, inferno,melee dungeon..) puppet master is instant GG.
Curse of the nethers is fun, and definitely a way if you can't score any serious dark damage (everything get cleansed, for instance). Doesn't need kazilion arties, warlocks luck or anything to be good, too.
Vampirism is fun, but to be honest, it gets cleansed in mp games quickly, unless the enemy has no cleansing or can't use it. But if so, I'd rather puppet them to death.
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Legendary_Hero
Known Hero
Stronghold Warchief
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posted October 25, 2007 08:53 PM |
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I think the Cotn is a very powerful spell.Now it deals very good damage especially when is cast by Necro.I mean a Hero with master of pain and 10 spellpower can cripple seriously any enemy.And by the way about the Puppet master i think in the 2nd mouth i would totaly pick the Curse over it.The Puppet master isn't so great i think it's only good for large battles and with the reduction of initiative it can be easily dispeled before the creature acts.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted October 25, 2007 09:45 PM |
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if you can dispel it, that is.
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Nirual
Famous Hero
Imbued Ballista
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posted October 25, 2007 09:49 PM |
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worst case scenario is usually that you spend your turn casting PM, slowing the target down as a result until the enemy counters with cleanse.
Unless he has Expert Dark Magic aswell and is smart enough to counter with Vampirism...
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In ur base killing ur doods... and raising them as undeads.
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grow
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 25, 2007 11:50 PM |
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COTN is fine the way it is and being in lvl 5 mage guild
plus the only things it wont hit is demon/undead which have
most use for dark anyway. and dealing few hundred damage to everything without any destructive skill/ability? thats pretty good
every spell will be useless in some situations and excel in others
and for those especially fond of dark magic....imo dark magic outweighs light magic comparing all spells of each school anyway
get over it, nothin will ever be just how you want it 
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nothing is predictable
grow me
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