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| Thread: Precasting |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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space3999
Hired Hero
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posted April 29, 2001 07:35 AM |
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The so-called "useless" spells!
What I think they should do with the useless combat spells (Quicksand, Fire Wall, Land Mine, Remove Obstacle) is give an added spell-casting bonus so that if you cast one of these spells first, you immediately get to cast ANOTHER spell (although it would be limited to level 1 only). That way, it wouldn't be totally useless. For example, you could set up a fire wall that you hope your enemies will eventually run into, then cast Magic Arrow to do damage or Expert Bloodlust or something.
Thoughts?
Space3999
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Triton
Adventuring Hero
Master of the Deep
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posted April 29, 2001 07:55 AM |
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agreed
Nice idea,space3999.I've liked firewall as a combat spell.It was rather useful as an ambush to lure enemies to sustain damage.In fact,I loved using it in Adrienne's AB campaign(early stages).
I didn't quite mean they were useless,except that it's a waste to cast these spells while the enemy casts implosion,mass haste etc.These spells didn't quite help in the most heated battles.
About the idea of casting 2 spells in a turn,maybe this could work for a hero with master wisdom/intelligence?This idea of an extra level of expertise was brought up in another thread
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space3999
Hired Hero
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posted May 01, 2001 07:57 AM |
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My apologies
I'm sorry--I didn't quite mean to say those spells were totally useless. I agree with you when you say they were useless during the heat of a long battle. It would make more tactical sense to cast Expert Slow or Expert Shield to defend against enemy troops than Quicksand or Land Mine, which enemies might not even run into. And there, that would be wasted spell points. In order for these spells to be useful, they MUST allow you to cast 2 spells per turn. And yes, with the Wisdom or Intelligence skill, it should work.
I DO think, however, that Firewall, Quicksand, and Land Mine would be very useful in defending against attacks on your town. It creates extra obstacles for the attacking army to overcome in addition to the moat, the arrow towers, and the town walls themselves. So maybe they aren't as sueless as I thought.
Space3999
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Triton
Adventuring Hero
Master of the Deep
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posted May 01, 2001 07:49 PM |
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To Space3999
With the released screenshot,it seems like there will be master level of expertise of the skills.It might just be possible that your idea might just be accepted in the game.It would be nice,right?Hooray,those spells can finally come in handy in difficult battles.
But one question,I wonder if each hero is only entitled to one master skill(speciality).Looks like everybody will know the answer when more shots are released.
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space3999
Hired Hero
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posted May 02, 2001 07:09 AM |
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To Triton
I hope my idea gets accepted. Sometimes, you just never know. The producers might decide to extend the deadline to add features they think might make the game better.
Actually, I just thought of some ways these "useless" spells can work--maybe WITHOUT them having to be cast as part of a 2-spell cast per turn. The Firewall wouldn't be casted on the ground--it would be casted on a friendly creautre that you control! But unlike Fire Shield, the firewall would extend like 4-5 hexes in front of a creature, and when the creature walks, the firewall walks with it, and anybody that the creature comes into contact with gets automatically damaged! Like if it was casted on the Basilisk, for example, and it wanted to attack some Master Gremlins on the other side of the screen, it would walk across the battlefield, stopping each time its firewall touched an enemy troop and doing damage along the way. Then, before the Basilisk actually attacks the Master Gremlin, the firewall does damage to it! This would work as a sort of "upgraded" Fire Shield spell, but more powerful! In addition, if any enemy creatures touch the firewall on their way across the ground to attack the Basilisk or somebody else, the firewall still does more damage. So in short, anytime the firewall touches an enemy creature, it gets damaged regardless if it's attacking, just moving to another spot on the battlefield, or if the unit possessing the firewall is attacking!
The "Land Mine" spell would do instant damage instead of waiting for the enemy unit to walk onto it. It would be an Earth spell. The land mine would magically appear underneath the unit's feet and explode, doing instant damage. In addition, the explosion will PUSH THE UNIT BACKWARDS a few hexes on the battlefield, and that could be very useful in slowing down fast enemy ground troops.
With "Quicksand", this would also be casted on a single enemy unit (or on multiple units at higher levels like "Berserk"). A big puddle of quicksand appears under the unit's feet. For any troop walking on the ground, every time they walk across the ground, a percentage of the troops in their stack dies because they've DROWNED in the quicksand! The further they walk, the more that die; the less they walk, the less that die--just like how quicksand works for real! If you keep trying to get out, you'll make yourself sink further in until you're gone! So let's say you cast quicksand on a stack of 30 Cavaliers. If they advance 5 hexes, 1 troop dies; advance 10 hexes, 2 troops die, etc. And at higher levels, more troops die. Against flying units, quicksand would just prevent them from flying and they would be FORCED to walk on the battlefield as a ground troop and also suffer the same fate as ground troops whenever they walk. What do you think?
And in response to your question, I hope each hero can have master levels of any skill they learn. But I also think that at each level a skill is learned, there should be multiple benefits. Like with Archery--not only could it give ranged creatures more damage, but also allow them to shoot twice at master level and allow weaker level 1-2 units to shoot THREE times or something!
And one more thing--I like your avatar--it's cool looking. It looks like an evil Water Elemental. Is it your own or are all the avatars posted supplied by this website? Just curious.
Space3999
"The Greatest Druid in the universe lives!"
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Triton
Adventuring Hero
Master of the Deep
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posted May 02, 2001 11:03 AM |
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Nice ideas again,Space3999
I like the additional effects you proposed for those spells.
The landmine spell pushing enemies backwards will indeed make it more useful rather than merely causing insignificant damage.
The firewall spell surrounding the targeted friendly creature-this kinds of reminds me of the firewall spell in the arcade game D&D2.Sounds cool.Maybe the expertise determines the number of flame columns around the creature.
About the quicksand spell drowning creatures,this idea sounds nice too.I think that is what a quicksand really does instead of only stopping the unit.Now that the graphics are 3-D,I certainly hope to the the pool sinking inwards(instead of the boring mud-pool). But for the spell,I would like to suggest that the pools stay stationary,but you get to choose where to place them(adds to the strategy)at maybe advanced or higher levels.When a unit steps onto it,there is a chance that a certain proportion dies as a result of drowning and a chance that the stack cannot escape(so stay stationary-like a dendroid's attack).Higher skill level in earth magic increases the chance of occurance of the two events.Spellpower decides the number of drowned creatures.
Last thing,thx for the compliments for the avatar.It's provided by the forum and the hero's name is Kalt(thought the avatar matches my nickname).
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space3999
Hired Hero
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posted May 02, 2001 02:50 PM |
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Thank you
Once again, thanx for the compliments as well.
Maybe with the Quicksand spell, both of our ideas could be used for different levels of skill. Like at basic earth, whenever a creature walks across the ground there's a chance some of them might die depending on spell power. At advanced, a higher percentage die. Then at expert and master, the creautre stays stationary AND more can still die per turn because they're STILL drowning even though they're not walking! So this would have an even greater effect than the Dendroid's "bind-to-the-ground" ability! Cool idea!
And yes, the Land Mine spell would be a lot more useful if it could push enemy units backwards in addition to doing damage. Maybe at expert level, the explosion covers more hexes and multiple creatures can be damaged AND pushed backwards. Then at master level, land mines appear under ALL of the enemy troops and ALL are damaged and pushed backwards. Additionally at master level, the land mines that damaged and pushed them back REMAIN on the ground, so that if the creatures walk on them again before the combat is over, they're STILL damaged and pushed back again! So, in essence, there could be landmines all over the battlefield depending upon where the enemy creatures were and not just pop up randomly as long as the spell power; "master land mine" would become extremely helpful because enemies can keep getting pushed back and maybe never reach, say, your ranged units or your powerful Hydras or your weak Gnoll Marauders.
And I didn't know that your avatar actually existed in Heroes3 (any of the three versions). I suppose I've just never seen him. What hero type is he? He looks cool.
Space3999
"The Greatest Druid in the universe lives!"
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Triton
Adventuring Hero
Master of the Deep
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posted May 02, 2001 08:16 PM |
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Hi there again,Space3999.I think that our discussion for the originally useless spells have been quite constructive.Now we can only hope that 3do accepts them/they are on the same track as us.I don't really wish to see the same old spells cast over every battle.The modifications we suggested will surely increase the popularity of such spells.
Some comments on the land-mine spell though.The pushing back + everlasting mines in a battle seem to make this spell a bit too invincible.I prefer the former,though.One thing to ask you.In Heroes3,does the caster's troops get damaged by his own mines?I would like it if it does-adds to the strategic element.
Lastly,I would like to ask your opinion on the subject of the abovementioned spells(quicksand,land mine)as off-combat spells.
About the avatar,I think the hero is in the AB version.He's a conflux hero(can't remember exactly the class).
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space3999
Hired Hero
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posted May 03, 2001 06:33 AM |
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To Triton
Yes, it indeed would be nice if different spells could be casted. Most of the time, I find myself using Ice Bolt and Lightning to do damage, then occasionally Bless and Slow and Haste. Then there's the spells I called the "secondary spells" which are good at time but at other times not so helpful--Air Shield, Frost Ring, Fireball, and Berserk are some. What 3DO should do is make each spell so that at the four different skill levels, it does something different, like in our "Quicksand" and "Firewall" discussions.
Maybe my ideas about the land mine did seem a little too powerful. Maybe draw the line at doing damage and pushing the enemies back? And once that happens, the ladn mines just disappear and the battle continues. And in response to your question, no; the land mines you cast will not harm any creatures that are on your team. It's the same way when you're defending in a Tower town--the land mines will only harm attacking enemy units. And I believe this works the same way with the Firewall and Quicksand spells as well. If both sides could be damaged, it would add more strategy because all of the units would want to avoid it. It would work like spells from Heroes2 like "Elemental Storm" (remember that one?) or even Armageddon where your own troops are damaged. You might kill some of your own units, but maybe a lot more of the enemy troops would die because they're weaker. In the case of "Land Mine", "Firewall", and "Quicksand"--the effect would be similar. Let's say you have a bunch of ranged units and flying units and cast Firewall and the enemy units are composed of mainly ground troops. Well, the firewall can damage anybody (friend or foe) on the battlefield, but it would benefit you more since you have ranged units and flying units, so the firewall wouldn't necessarily be a hinderance to you unless a ground troop attacked one of your ranged units and it became forced to walk on the ground.
Off-combat spells? I know exactly what you mean. Casting "Quicksand" on the adventure map could be very useful to fend off approaching enemy heroes--once they walked into the quicksand puddle, they would be forced to stop moving AND a percentage of some of their troops would die (sort of like the way the Sirens structure in the ocean; the one with the birds that makes that strange psycho noise when you visit it and you get experience for it in exchange)! With Land Mine, it could work like a TIME BOMB! You'd plant the mine and after so many days, a huge explosion would result on the map, damaging any nearby heroes or armies. Thus, any units an enemy hero is carrying can die instantly. Also, maybe the Land Mine (at higher levels) creates a huge impact crater where it was put to prevent anybody from passing on that section of the map temporarily based on spell power.
I posted some ideas about the "Remove Obstacle" spell on a separate thread--I've explained it in great detail so I'll let you look at that one for yourself.
Slow and Haste could be very useful, giving a hero extra movement or an enemy less movement for a certain amount of days depending on spell power. How about Berserk? This would make the enemy hero attack the NEAREST wandering army, whether it be Sprites or Serpent Flies or Energy Elementals or Archdevils or eveb Rust Draogns! However, it would attack only certain levels of creatures depending upon, once again, spell power and skill level.
This is a very interesting idea. I'll post more of my ideas tomorrow--I've got to go to work early in the morning and take a final at school.
Space3999
"The Greatest Druid in the universe needs some sleep......"
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Triton
Adventuring Hero
Master of the Deep
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posted May 03, 2001 06:50 PM |
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To Space3999
Hi there,Space3999.This thread seems to have become our dialogue.
Did you see the revelations in the mmportal website?Seems that there will be 5 schools of magic in Heroes4.In that case,the original clasSification of spells may be altered.Strangely,I have seen the air/earth magic symbols in the screenshot.I'm quite curious to see how big the changes are.
About the off-combat spells,the idea for the spell berserk is indeed innovative.Can drive a pesky scout of the enemy to his doom/weaken his troops before a showdown.There had been discussions about damage-causing spells(implosion etc) used off-battles.I didn't agree to it,though.How's your view?
Hope you excel in your finals.I look forward to see more of your ideas
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space3999
Hired Hero
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posted May 03, 2001 09:49 PM |
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Off-combat spells CONTINUED.....
Hey Triton!
Yes, it indeed does appear we've completely taken over this thread! I haven't seen a post from anybody else other than us within the last 5 days or so! Perhaps when this thread reaches like 60 messages or something, people will start to pay attention.
I think damaging enemy heroes before a real battle was where I was getting at with casting the Berserk spell on the adventure map. Isn't that a great idea? Not only would the enemy hero lose some of his troops (maybe, depending if his army is powerful enough), but it could also buy you some valuable time. Like maybe you want to hurry up and get back to your castle or escape onto a boat or something before the enemy arrives.
Damage-doing spells off combat? I have several ideas. With Lightning, Ice Bolt, Fireball, Implosion, and other spells like these, it would weaken the hero himself and not the creatures (the creatures can only be harmed in combat). If a hero is struck by Lightning, he or she would lost attack skill points, defense skill points, and cause other hinderances. Like for example, if the hero has the Logistics skill, maybe casting the lightning bolt would injure the horse the herp is riding on and therefore the Logistics movement bonus is negated for a couple of days on the map until the horse's legs heal. This would be the same for any other damage inflicting spells. However, each damage-inflicting spells would have potential special effects as well. For example, Ice Bolt could "freeze" an enemy hero in his tracks for a day or two (maybe even longer on Snow terrain). Meteor Shower could create a hole in the ground which a hero falls into, forcing him into the subterranean level below (if the map has 2 levels). Lightning Bolt would cause the hero to be sensitive to water so if it visits a Water Wheel, tries to Navigate on the ocean, etc., he'll lose additional bonuses, like maybe morale or something, because he and his troops keep getting shocked! Or with the new and revamped Magic Arrow, the arrow would remain in the horse, causing it to continuously bleed and hurt, so movement would be cut in half until the arrow can be dislodged (and that takes a visit to a special First Aid guild or you'd have to have the First Aid Skill, the latter which you'd have to spend a day to fix the horse's wounds. Acid Rain (the revamped Elemental Storm from Heroes2) would cause your creatures to lose hit points as long as they remain in the rain and weaken your hero. If damage-inflicting spells could be casted off-combat, then I think the First Aid guilds would be a great addition.
How about casting "Mirror Image"? You could CREATE another image of yourself so now there's TWO of your heroes with the exact same armies walking around the map. However, there would have to be extreme limitations on this--like visiting a Mirror Image guild to get additional wisdom on how to perfect it or something and you must have Expert Wisdom and Psychic Magic (perhaps this would be the fifth element since they already have Psychic and Magic Elementals?!). However, you could cast regular "Mirror Image" on a STRUCTURE on the map! Like if you made a mirror image of a Windmill, you'd now have TWO that you could visit for extra resources each week! However, the image would last only temporarily or until an enemy caster destroyed it. Which brings me to my next idea--you can cast damage-inflicting spells on STRUCTURES on the mpa to destroy them so that nobody else can use them (like with what you could do with the "Haunt" spell in Heroes2 to deflag a mine and put ghosts around it to haunt it. You could destroy mines, windmills, creature dwellings--anything except for a town, which you must invade and take over.
How do I get to the "mmportal website"? I'd be interested in seeing what they have there about spells.
I'll write more later. Oh, and I think I did pretty well on my final today. We'll see when the report card comes in two weeks!
Space3999
"The Greatest Druid in the universe is alive and well!"
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Triton
Adventuring Hero
Master of the Deep
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posted May 04, 2001 10:30 AM |
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Hi,I'm here again.Congratulations on your good performance.Here's the URL of the website:-
http://www.mmportals.com/heroes4.html/
You can see the latest released screenshots and some news about the progress of the game.
I feel that Heroes4 seem to become more like the game"Masters of Magic".If that's the case,I wonder if they would import the overland enchantments as well.If they do,then the spells--acid rain,haunt etc might work.But I would prefer that only those less powerful offensive spells be casted overland.Otherwise,it would make things VERY difficult.The troops you painstakingly amassed for months might just all be eradicated by an enemy scout with the armaggedon spell. I like the idea of spells affecting terrain and weather.
The different schools of magic introduced is likely to create a fine variety of gameplay tactics.Death and Chaos magic can cast spells causing plague(non-undead units die while passing the plague-infested terrain) and nature destroying phenomena(acid rain and such).We can perhaps start suggesting/speculating spells pertainng to these spells.But like I have said,the earth and air magic symbols are still around.It seems quite bewildering how 3do is going to group the spells.
Till the next time,then.
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space3999
Hired Hero
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posted May 09, 2001 03:45 PM |
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I'm back!
Hey, Triton!
Sorry I haven't replied in what seems like forever. Trying to keep up with school and work and personal life can really take a lot of free time away.
Thanx for the URL. I'll have a look at that website as soon as I'm done posting here, then post my comments regarding that.
Yes, I hope there are spells that affect the weather and the land. The "adventure spells" they have now are fine, but adding spells to affect gameplay on the map would add a lot of new strategy. Armageddon and Implosion could be too powerful, though, unless they changed them so that they'd have different effects on the map. Like, for example, with Armageddon, it could have duifferent effects at different levels. Like at expert, you could cast it over a TOWN and fire from the sky can destroy structures in the town and kill troops that haven't been recruited inside the castle. However, this wouldn't totally destroy the town--once again, you'd have to take the town over through combat. Or at master level, maybe the Armageddon casts down huge balls of fire randomly all over the map and if one hits you, it is so powerful that 1 of each creature you have dies outright. And this has given me an idea towards casting Armageddon in combat. In the past, Armageddon just covers the whole stage and injures everyone who's not immune to it. It could be modified to where it rains down huge fireballs randomly onto the stage. If one hits a unit, it simply kills a unit outright instead of just doing massive damage to everyone, so this would be a more useful spell against higher level units, like Behemoths, Ghost Dragons, Naga Queens, Scorpicores, etc. However, if any fireball DOESN'T hit a creature and hits the ground instead, an explosion results, and anybody within, say, a radius of 5-6 hexes will be killed, so Armageddon becomes even more powerful if it doesn't hit anybody before reaching the ground. Furthermore, after the resulting explosion, a ball of fire is created that remains on the battlefield for however many rounds according to the spellpower of the caster. Any creature that walks into the ball of fire (or is accidentally knocked into the ball of fire from my "revamped" land mine spell) gets damaged and the ball of fire disappears. I think this would be a great way to make Armageddon more strategic yet not so overpowering.
I liked the four schools in Heroes3--water, fire, earth, air. They all seemed to work just fine. I think, though, that there should be two additional schools--Death Magic (like you suggested) and Psychic Magic. Death Magic would have black and red blood symbols and consist of Necromancer-type spells--Animate the Dead, Death Ripple, and the "Aging" spell that the Ghost Dragons had. "Skeleton Transform" would allow you to transform any of your allies TEMPORARILY into skeletons (or skeleton warriors if you have expert or master Necromancy). This would give you more skeletons to fight with based on the hit points of the ally in the stack. Like if it was 10 Unicorns you were transforming (which is 900 hit points), you'd get 150 skeletons/skeleton warriors in exchange. However, since this is temporary, these skeleton/skeleton warriors would transform BACK into the 10 Unicorns when the spell power wares off. This would be useful for several reasons. One, you could avoid having a creature stack that isn't undead have bad morale and freeze up during combat (like in the case of Unicorns in a Necormancer army). Two, any undead creature that is usually vulnerable to such spells as Curse, Blind, etc. would not be when they transform into skeletons. But there's something else to this spell. If any of the skeletons die, however many hit points lost as a result would be lost from the creature stack that was transformed, so you'd have to remember to be careful when attacking with the newly transformed skeletons. Also, there should be a new spell called "Ghost Summon" which is a level 5 spell and would cost like 30 spell points. And these ghosts have the same offensive and defensive stats from Heroes2--20 hit points, fast speed, etc. (Also remember that any creature they kill becomes a ghost!) With this spell, three stacks of ghosts randomly pop up on the battlefield to serve the caster. At basic, each stack contains 2 ghosts, advanced--3 ghosts, expert--4 ghosts, and expert--5 ghosts! And the purpose of having three different stacks is so that they can melee around one single unit and increase your chances of killing some of the units in the enemy stack and turning them into ghosts. If there were 15 ghosts in one stack and they all tried to attack maybe a stack of 260 Centaur Captains at once, they all could surely die. However, if the Centaur Captains had been damaged from an attack from some Dread Knights and can't retaliate anymore, then the ghosts could all melee around the Centaur Captains and attack them and perhaps kill like 9 or 10 of them to increase the number of ghosts. So this spell would create some additional strategy--you'd have to decide when and who to attack to get the most number of ghosts. Additionally, the "Plague" spell could be casted over an enemy town to reduce the number of creatures that are produced in the town per week. Or--how about the "Energy Drainer" spell? You'll like this one! This spell is first casted on an allied troop, preferably on a ground or flying troop--Black Knights, Skeletons, Vampire Lords, etc. And when they attack another enemy creature, they have like a 10% chance of STEALING the attack skill, defense skill, hit points, speed, AND special abilities of those creatures and give those creatures THEIR attack skill, defense skill, hit points, speed, and specials. So in essence, you're really TRADING powers! This could be extremely powerful, because you could use your Zombies to attack some Unicorns (I love using them as victims for some reason) and the Zombies could drain the Unicorn's power. Then, suddenly the Zombies have 90 hit points and have 7 speed while the Unicorns now have only 20 hit points and 5 speed (I'm not sure of the exact stats)! The strategy here would be to cast it on your somewhat weaker units whihc you have lots of because with 200 Skeletons with a Unicorns 90 hit points, they'd almost never die--it's like having 200 Unicorns! So this alone can turn the tide of battle!
"Psychic Magic" would have stars and moon shapes as symbols and include all the mind-affecting spells and illusion spells--Berserk, Hypnotize, Blind, etc. It should include all "Summoning" spells also--Summon Boat, Summon Water Elemental, etc. However, in Heroes4, maybe you could also summon a random unit based on a hero's skill level and spell power. Like at advanced and 5 spell power, you could get a random 5th level unit (Genies, Mighty Gorgons, Zealots, etc.). At expert and 7 spell power, you could get Black Knights, Unicorns, or Cyclops Kings. And at master and spell power 9 or 10, you could summon a 7TH LEVEL UNIT!
Psychic Magic could also include the spell ability that the Familiars had--the magic channel where they steal spell points and add them to their own here. This opens the door for other "mind-stealing" spells, like one that "Steals Knowledge", "Steals a Secondary Skill", or "Steals Spell Power" and adds them to the hero. Also, the new "Illusion" spell would make enemy troops during combat think you have like 12 Gold Dragons or 70 Unicorns (there they are again!) when you really have 3 Gold Dragons and 7 Unicorns. This would be a level 2 spell because it's not totally powerful.
Tell me what you think!
Space3999
"The Greatest Druid in the universe lives again!"
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space3999
Hired Hero
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posted May 09, 2001 03:48 PM |
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The "mmportals" website
Hey Triton,
Just tried to access that URL, but I don't think that website address is working. It said "File Not Found" on my browser. Are you sure it's correct?
Space3999
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Triton
Adventuring Hero
Master of the Deep
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posted May 09, 2001 09:14 PM |
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Part of my opinions
Hi,Space3999.It's been quite a long time.First things first.Sorry for the mistake.The URL is actually
http://www.mmportals.com/heroes4.html
I accidentally included the slash button.
Yeah,I haven't been on the forum recently too as I'm on a job hunt for the holidays(though still unsuccessful).Getting very bored And Heroes4 will only be out in the 4th quarter of the year,sigh.
Phew,quite a long reply you have there.
You might be rather disappointed after you read the news.There's no psychic magic.There's supposedly 5 schools-nature,death,life,order and chaos.Not too sure if the elemental schools still exist though.Basically,the game seems to be less identical to the Heroes series and more to MM.
Basically,I like your idea of Armageddon.More strategy involved than merely leading an army of creatures with fire magic immunity to battle and clicking on the spell.This idea kinds of reminds me of a lvl4 fire spell in MM8.
As for the idea for the death magic,I think that your idea of summoning ghosts in battle is interesting.The Energy Drainer spell is however too powerful.It simply makes the Necropolis invincible.How about this?
Ghoul Touch-drains a certain proportion of health,attack and defense from the creature attacked by the enchanted creature.The attacker gains 1/2 of the drained attributes for the spell's duration.Proportion drained depends on the mastery of death magic.
About the Skeleton Transformer spell,is it going to be cast on the battlefield or off-combat?
There could be another spell like Vampiric Touch,whereby the enchanted creature acquires the blood-draining abilities of the vampire.To prevent it from being overwhlemingly powerful,maybe only 1/4 of the damaged health goes to the revival?It should be a single target spell like Blind.Expertise determines the creature level that could be enchanted.
The mind-stealing spells could possibly work for the chaos school.
Hope you don't mind the long post.Enjoy your day!
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thunderknight
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted May 10, 2001 06:25 AM |
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Hi, Triton, Space3999,
Sorry for "interrupting" into your "dialogue".
Hope you don't mind.
I've looked most of your posts (well, I don't go through all of them.  ) Some of the very cool ideas there (especially the spells) and I like them very much.
I also agree that in the current game, some of the spells just got ignored as they are comparatively "useless". I rarely use fireball, frost ring or remove obstacles during battles if I have any other alternatives. (The only spell I never "really" use is misfortune, except for fun purpose, just to see the graphics of this spell.)
I also find that homm4 has adopted some features from Masters of Magic. I don't mind this cos I like MoM very much. (What a pity that Micropose does not make MoM a series just like homm.)
From spell pt of view, I find MoM much more interesting than homm series. The great and interesting system of adventure casting of spells in MoM gives me a lot of fun. Especially whem I have to struggle through all the nasty spells (meteror shower, great wasting, death wishes.......etc etc) from the opponents (I nearly always set the difficulty to hardest in every game).
The only thing I don't agree very much is that I think quicksand and landmine should NOT affect the flying units. That would be more sensible. (Well, people may argue that flying units do need "rest" and so they have to "park" on the ground.......)
Lastly, Triton, I wish your job hunt will turn out to give you a wonderful job. (Well, to find a grail is never easy an easy task, right ?)
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Triton
Adventuring Hero
Master of the Deep
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posted May 10, 2001 09:19 AM |
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Welcome
Hi there,thunderknight.Thanks for your concern.
Of course,you are welcome to participate in our discussion of spells.We mentioned the dialogue thing just because everyone else seemed to be uninterested in our posts and for the past week or so,only the two of us are continuing this discussion.As I can see,I believe you like the spell-casting aspects of the game very much(like us,or me at least).Feel free to "voice" your idea for new spells.Hope our small discussion is seen and heard.
Basically,I believe 3do will do an excellent job of delegating creatures for the castles.I'm quite satisfied with the multi-route development idea
Not to say that they do a terrible job in spells,of course.It's just that we are listing some of the new things we wish to see in the new installation.
No ideas for the time being.I'll be back soon.Hope to see your replies soon.Enjoy yuor day
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thunderknight
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted May 11, 2001 05:08 AM |
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Hi, I'm back, after a long long day of boring working.
I squeeze some time to take a look at mmportals and
http://www.toheroes.com/heroes4/data/database.html
for some h4 news. I see a quite different town type mix from h3. That's cool as you have to rethink for new tactics. (Well, maybe hit & run will still have its place in h4. )
I also very appreciate the multi-route development idea. Definitely will enhance the tactical aspect. I think maybe 3do should make it an option at beginning of game:-
a). Full-tech tree option: allow the towns to develop all its structures. This option is for newbies to let them familiarize with all the structures.
b). Multi-route option: every town should decide its development route. Military, magical, economic or the like and the option should be "mutually exclusive". You have to make a choice !
What do you think about it ? BTW, I "steal" the idea from Age of Empire.
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Triton
Adventuring Hero
Master of the Deep
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posted May 11, 2001 05:57 AM |
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Hello,thunderknight.I agree that the new town types and multi development routes will indeed make playing Heroes4 a new experience.
I like the idea of a full tech tree.Is your idea of the tech tree like the one in Diablo2?It'll be helpful to know the prerequisites and what you get at the end.
After all,everyone will be a newbie when the game is released.Perhaps this can be an option that can be abled/disabled in the options menu.
As for the development route of being military and so on,maybe this will not be so distinctive in the Heroes series.Perhaps you get more powerful high level creatures but you don't get to build a level 5 guild(applies for the towns other than stronghold).It's an assumption on my part.
Something just struck me.Since the present elemental schools give way for the new ones,the present spells will be distributed among the latter and hopefully new ones are added.But I feel that there are spells that all the towns might need,like dispel,cure,,town portal etc.These spells are somewhat necessary at times,regardless of the town types.So I suggest that these spells are like the arcane spells in MoM,meaning that they have chances of appearing in the guilds.It's like visions,magic arrow in Heroes3.The mastery can rely on any school's mastery.But the headache is that stronghold might be penalized further.Any comments or improvements??
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thunderknight
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted May 11, 2001 06:33 AM |
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Hi, Triton,
Just fooling around and surfing on the net, and in the office.
I never play Diablo (though I know that game) but I think the ideas are quite similar. Yes, the full tech-tree option can be abled/disabled at game menu.
As for the spells, I also agree that some spells shoud be made available to all towns. I think low level spells are "necessary" for all towns while high level spells should be more distinctive and differentiated.
As for the stronghold, I love barbie (not that doll, you know, ). No magic is truely an obstacle. But there are ways to overcome it: (Assumption: barbie can NEVER learn magic, like Yog in the campaign "Birth of Barbarian")
1). Conquer: attack, raid and hire heroes in other towns who know how to cast spells. As stronghold has best creatures and best growth rate (according to info available), this combined with a strong magic hero later on will be a deadly combo. (This is also my tactic in h3 )
2). Buy: Barbie may not have the wisdom to learn any spell. But they have $$ from raiding other towns. So they can buy some artifacts (e.g. Pendant of Second Sight.....) to counter the magic or maybe they can "purchase" the resistance skill should this skill still exist in h4.
Well, maybe another simple way is just to give minimal magic ability to barbie e.g. they can NEVER have wisdom and/or intelligence and/or sorcery but they can learn low level spells.
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