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| Thread: ToTe skills - a small analysis :) |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted September 28, 2007 04:30 PM |
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I can't understand why Necro has Suppress darkness and Shrug darkness... They are the ones least to be afraid of other casters dark magic, being immune to the scariest spells.
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phoenixreborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
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posted September 28, 2007 04:35 PM |
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jolly-Joker:
It's capped at 50%, but you can have a lot more points than 5 (without additional effect).
There are many units which reduce luck or morale now but they might not be effective. OTOH it's tough to get your luck up that high unless your focusing on it.
This is a lot to take in all at once, but ToTE has changed the game completely.
I'll feel better when I have the actual game and have played a few skirmish maps.
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NIght_Heaven
Adventuring Hero
Lonely star in heaven dream
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posted September 28, 2007 04:55 PM |
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Quote:
Notice that with more perks available, there is less chance for each of them to appear. After all, they are all fighting for same spot on level up screen.
Correct.Thats something important too. Nice point of view.
Now...on topic. The more good skills against magic is of course against Academy.What saves Academy from a sudden death are the other abilities like artificer.Academy now isnt on the top three...Is barely in the middle.
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kermit
Known Hero
Soul hunter
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posted September 28, 2007 05:11 PM |
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Quote:
I still don't understand the use of empathy for necro.
Unless you use a necro with non necro troops truely there is none 
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted September 29, 2007 02:36 AM |
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Ultimates aside...
It is obvious that we start over again, most picks we used to like are now obsolete and there are more interesting ones to check.
KNIGHT
Let's see the skills and possibilities. I'll stick to the ones that stand out.
LOGISTICS: Warpath makes for a Speedy Gonzales hero not considering the stables.
Familiar ground gains +2 speed for some imba goodness. Just watch those 50+ griffs charge with the vindicators right behind them.
Swift gating makes for a lovely surprise mass haste/slow casting. Or even puppet master 
LEADERSHIP: Harder to get divine guidance(arrg) but empathy. Can't complain. Aura of swiftness is gone.
ENLIGHTENMENT: Mentoring aside easy wizard's reward and graduate. If you go light or dark it really helps - especially vs inferno.
LIGHT: That's a good one. Fire resistance for armageddon, easy refined mana, stormwind( ) for tactical surprises and eternal light vs dark.
DARK: Wow. Seal of darkness and shrug darkness against dark coming from master of mind.
ATTACK: Flaming arrows as doomforge said  Good ballista, yes  Easy power of speed in case you don't get haste and a bit harder to get retribution. Very fair imo.
DEMONLORD
Apart from the glaring triple ballista and flaming arrows.
ATTACK: Easy power of speed and excruciating strike. That's a buff to me.
LOGISTICS: Easy swift gating, warpath and swift mind - yay for dark. Versatile.
DARK: Seal of darkness and shrug darkness vs the hated dark 
SUMMONING: Easy banish and fire warriors 
SORCERY: Finally good for something. Distract and counterspell that will be of good use vs spellcasters.
RANGER
The ranger was always a decent hero. Now, he can boost his destructive, bearing both warlock's luck and cold death (wee hee imbue rain of arrows with circle of ice please ) Retribution is available too, and connected to quite good skills (nature's wrath and battle frenzy), which makes wyngaal a nice choice. It unlocks divine guidance from leadership, another interesting motive to make those anger treants useful. Ohh, and our beloved preparation is there too, making treants even more annoying
Apart from what doomforge mentioned:
Flaming arrows for some sick ballista rushes if you are lucky to get warmachines. Now think of destructive's boost(cold death, ignite) and warlock's luck and you get the idea. Nival will never learn where some basic reasonable things are concerned...
Power of speed and swift mind, fiery wrath and easy fire resistance - THE ONLY DAMN THING THAT CAN SAVE DUNGEON FROM AN EMBARRASSING LOSS AFTER WEEK 4, A GOOD ARMAGEDDON. Great.
And of course boosted familiar ground(+2 tiles), warpath.
WIZARD
A few more things that were not mentioned:
A lovely preparation against those with weak defense.
Stormwind mmm.. A blessing against those factions that have good speed fliers.
Distract heh. Enemy spellcasters will hate you, especially if they have no sorcery.
Fire warriors..? Finally summon elementals can become useful. Elemental balance and easy fog veil is great too. No fear of crazy summoners like necro or warlocks. Yes the wizards got some nice toys to play with.
RUNEMAGE
Easy retribution for one. Flaming arrows with runic machines could make the ballista finally worth investing into. Runic machines independent from triple ballista as well.
Divine guidance and swift mind to avoid the warlords getting hit first 
Fire resistance(nobody could see that coming ) and stormwind.
A boosted summoning that will work whether you get spells or not. Fire warriors, elemental balance, banish, runic armor, fog veil.
Note that ignite with a 2nd fire spell in mage guild 3 is a much better pick. BUT harder to go armageddon with deep freeze in the mix.
Generally there are few wrong choices, you can optimize the hero you want.
WARLOCK
A great summoning assortment as with most of the aforementioned factions and much needed because there are many counters to destructive. At least now thing are a bit better.
Arcane excellence and distract Easier to deal with those nasty familiars.
Swift mind Shrug darkness which was also very needed.
Strangely...You can opt for warmachines, dungeon can now be a good rusher with triple ballista and flaming arrows both easy to get.
NECROMANCER
Yes I got the feeling they got nerfed as soon as I saw the skillwheel.
Their attack and knowledge are pathetic so we forget the fact that they can get triple flaming ballista. Most of the times. It's not as if they even need it in earlygame.
Easy banish and fire warriors.
Distract could be good, magic insight may get you phantom forces. Yay for easy arcane excelence.
And of course swift mind.
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Basically the whole thing is a mess. You'll have to think if the opponent will go for swift mind, a direct counter to your magic, familiar ground, cold death for killing your ballista and many other things. It's now a guessing game more than ever. Most of the changes are reasonable but the ultimates and some specific abilities are an assault to anyone's common sense...
What can I say, patching eternal. It has the potential to become one of the best skill systems ever if they manage to balance just a few more things.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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HartZa
Known Hero
watchout graveyards!
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posted September 29, 2007 11:46 PM |
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Now this is a topic I was looking for. Once again they nerfed Necropolis. MotN goes weaker which is somewhat ok. No use more to obtain haunted mines perk since you need to sacrifice 1 slot for useless leadership. And why the F*CK they added Empathy for necromancers?! ABSOLUTELY no use. There is some serious balance problem for now what need to fix(triple ballista,wizards motw+war.luck+ignite and so on). I´m really pissed of about these changes
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radar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Castle/Haven player
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posted September 30, 2007 09:33 AM |
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I'd add Preparation for knight... with Counterstrike and Battle Griffins it will be just ideal.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted September 30, 2007 09:35 AM |
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assuming knight has leadership, luck, attack, logistics and light/dark, there is no room for defense, sadly. And since haven, just like sylvan, depends on the powerful 1st turn attack, def is imho just behing those skills and therefore not the best pick
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radar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Castle/Haven player
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posted September 30, 2007 09:43 AM |
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Well, I always pick Attack (Klaus), Def, Luck, Leadership and Light Magic. Since ToTe, I'll just swap Luck with Logistic (Warpath, F Ground), I can boost it enough with arties (but easy Spoils of War are yummie thingy also). I'm quite defensive player and Defence will always find its place in my skill chart.
go, go -30% dmg taken
no, really - it is useful
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted September 30, 2007 11:11 AM |
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Quote:
... but easy Spoils of War are yummie thingy also ...
Did you actually ever find a proper use of Spoils of War? To my experience, what you gain from this skill is completely useless?
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What will happen now?
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted September 30, 2007 12:09 PM |
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I never object to Spoils of War either, unless it crosses my Hero building plans. While you don't open up an entire treasure trove each battle, the gain in resources is a nice boon and it's at least a skill that works for *every* victory in a beneficial way.
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Nirual
Famous Hero
Imbued Ballista
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posted September 30, 2007 06:34 PM |
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You get 1,5% of the killed creatures cost, afaik. No further resources unless its quite a big fight. Well, it adds up but it could be a bit better without being overpowered, nonetheless. Resourcefulness is much better early on, but loses most of it's value once most of the resource piles on the maps are gone.
But hey, it's still better than the Tear of Asha vision... saves you maybe 3 turns digging for the Tear, IF there is one to begin with.
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havenlover
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 30, 2007 08:52 PM |
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for haven it looks like things are changed up quite a bit. the only gripe is flaming arrows. why give a faction w/ a vittorio and easy acces to attack flaming arrows? doesn't seem reasonable. though perhaps they don't care about those sorta things, afterall they did make deleb.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted September 30, 2007 08:55 PM |
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You did miss Deleb's buff with triple flaming ballista right? Though I think her fireball's spellpower decreased by 2 - as if that would change something
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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havenlover
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 30, 2007 08:58 PM |
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Quote:
You did miss Deleb's buff with triple flaming ballista right? Though I think her fireball's spellpower decreased by 2 - as if that would change something
yah well deleb is just gone from silly to ultra silly, I'm not sure it will be relevant as ppl wont want to play against her now, same as ever.
it looks like they just threw a bunch of stuff in there to make it interesting. and some stuff, like flaming arrows for vittorio and triple ballista for deleb just fell out and they were like, meh whatever.
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roy-algriffin
Supreme Hero
Chocolate ice cream zealot
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posted September 30, 2007 09:02 PM |
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I think its for those peeps that like to have uberness once in a while.
In serious battles i doubt people would use her/him
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"Am i a demon? No im a priest of the light! THE BLOODY RED LIGHT"
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted September 30, 2007 09:06 PM |
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Still it's a shame considering all the good things they have done for TotE. It's not as if would take much to think how to balance them.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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havenlover
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 30, 2007 09:10 PM |
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Quote:
I think its for those peeps that like to have uberness once in a while.
In serious battles i doubt people would use her/him
I dont wanna lose vittorio though! btw now I see vittorio as now having:
war machines
attack
luck
light
conscripts
crossbowmen
squires
battle griffin
inquisitor
paladin
archangel
don't need a fifth ability. the ballista will ANNHILATE all high level creatures.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted September 30, 2007 11:57 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 00:23, 01 Oct 2007.
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I had a better look at the inferno skills and maybe things are not so bad where warmachines are concerned. Deleb always held a place at the fabled Hall of Imbalance that won't change now. But having both triple ballista and flaming arrows is trickier than it seems. The arrows require hallfire, mark of the damned, battle frenzy and excruciating strike which means:
No tactics or power of speed. At least the former is a must in my book. That in turn makes you weaker after the earlygame when you are beginning to gather an army. As I see it unless you plan to make a ballista specialist or play a small rushing map you will not want flaming arrows.
Getting mark of the damned before ballista ability will probably mess with your early choices. It unlocks that damn earthquake which you may be seeing in your lvl-ups more than you'd like. And warmachine skill may not come that fast.
Inferno could easily be banned in smaller maps though :
EDIT: Further testing suggests that Deleb may actually be ok. Her starting ballista does 1 damage  Wonder how much that increases.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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pinkspear
Known Hero
Crazy like a fool
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posted October 01, 2007 12:23 AM |
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Yeah I think inferno has become much-much better with toe. The horned grunts, firebreather hounds, and the seducers are much better than the other upgrades. I hope we will experience the same with the other factions too, and there will be an answer for both creeping and endgame problems for every faction.
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