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| Thread: Do you stick with what you get? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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frostwolf
Famous Hero
livin' in a bottle of vodka
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posted November 02, 2007 09:42 PM |
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Do you stick with what you get?
I was just wondering, now that Tote is out. The barbarians are geared towards attack. The dwarves are geared towards defense. Since you get alternative upgrades, I was wandering what do you go for?
Do you stick to the thing your faction is best at and try to maximise it, or do you take the opposite skill trying to balance them? I mean, playing as Stronghold, do I choose offense so that I can crush opponents easily and neglect all my defenses, or do I choose defense since offense is already big with my troops. The same for sylvan: since I have high initiative and thus I am likely to attack first (play offensive) do I try to get even more of a punch out of my troops, or do I get defense and try to offer them a bit of protection.
The opposite for fortress: do you maximise defense so you don't care about what my enemies throw at you, but stick with the sucky damage, or do you try to deal more damage, considering the defense you already have enough?
Or do you pick both offense and defense?
I know both skill and troop choices depend on the strategy you choose against a particular enemy, but just for the sake of argument, do you try to get the best out of your troops natural combat orientation, or do you stick with what you have and try to compensate a little on the other side.
In other words, knowing that your skill with the sword is really good, would you buy a better sward, or a piece of armour, so you can have a little more protection? (knowing what great knights we all are)
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What can you expect from a world where everybody lives because they're too afraid to commit suicide?
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roy-algriffin
Supreme Hero
Chocolate ice cream zealot
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posted November 02, 2007 09:44 PM |
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Well it depends.
With stronghold id get more defense
with fortress id also get more defense
attack with syvlan
attack with inferno.
The rest are more balanced or magic oriented.
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"Am i a demon? No im a priest of the light! THE BLOODY RED LIGHT"
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sphere
Supreme Hero
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posted November 02, 2007 10:43 PM |
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Hi,
- I do have a qualified answer ( that suits my needs that is ) but since most new topics and whatnot are either locked or deleted, I'll wait till Alc-"the Deleter"-ibiades been around.
- Guz
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Who is this General Failure, and why is he looking at my disk ?
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roy-algriffin
Supreme Hero
Chocolate ice cream zealot
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posted November 03, 2007 12:11 AM |
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Most do, But then again a lot dont. And now that you said that he will obviously not close the thread down, Out of defiance for that post
So Go ahead.
Edit > He he, that has not held me back in the past I think. But when I close down threads it is either because a) the consist of single questions only and are not forming a basis for discussion, or b) because there are threads that are readily found which cover the same topic.
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"Am i a demon? No im a priest of the light! THE BLOODY RED LIGHT"
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unixmage
Known Hero
Demon Slayer
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posted November 03, 2007 12:32 AM |
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I usually go for balance or lean towards defense. But then again I'm a big fan of spellcaster towns so I may be biased.
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted November 03, 2007 01:50 AM |
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Well there are different paths to take, others are more favored but others have the element of surprise in their sleeve. For example Inferno, who is fast and attack oriented and it will be they key to this faction still. Attack! Attack! But it also has a specialty that brings more troops with a little bit of time spent on them. Defense here in combination with the gating perks like Swift gating can be most effective as well. Dark Magic is known as defensive magic (light as offensive), so it suits this kind of Inferno needs greatly.
Sylvan on the other hand is different, their racial is also to increase damage, they have high defense initially and luck as a favored skill. I see hardly any reasons for trying the defensive way. Light School here favors the offensive way, Destructive can be used for either purpose. (master of Fire is very offensive, Stun and Freeze are defensive. Direct damage is offensive in itself, but can be used either as a main weapon (defensive troops) or an ally for the kills (offensive troops) But for Sylvan, the only real alternative is offense.
Dwarfs have 2 alternatives, the other being rune magic + offense (Light and Destructive here as well. The other is pure defense, which can be used early to defeat enemies and counter semi-rushes. Destructive works here like a charm, your troops will last long! Too bad the Runemage ain't much of a caster. Later on you are advised to go offensive (and adjust your alternatives accordingly) because you have all key elements for it. Light magic and runes make a deadly combination.
Magic towns should always go for defense initially. Their spells will be holding the town together. The emphasis will remain on defense even later on, but you can turn it aggressive as well. Take Academy, you have all the pre-requisites for making the fastest army by mini-artifacts and artifact merchants. Warlock will always be for the spells, but later the line doen't have to be merely Hydras taking the damage and spells doing the killing. You will have plenty of attack as well. Necro Necro Necro.. actually you turn out to be a might army in the end... you will have biggest amount of troops, but the lack of speed in combat will totally make you defensive. Your troops can do a lot of damage, but they will never be the first ones to act. So defense is a must. In numbers the damage will come.
Stronghold. Hehee, this town is wicked and I don't have enough experience to say much.. but I have found defense remarkably useful because it sustains your rage up higher - which in turn turns for more offensive power. I'll leave it there.
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Moonlith
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
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posted November 03, 2007 02:08 AM |
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I think it depends on one's personal preference. As well the town you're playing and what is being offered.
I like Inferno's full offense strategies and Necropolis' Defense + Spellcaster strategies. Those make sense.
Peacefull elfs being great at offense just makes no sense to me, probably hence why I dont like playing those.
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Odish
Hired Hero
No longer a tavern dweller : )
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posted November 03, 2007 02:12 AM |
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I posted a similar question a while ago on CH. you can see the discussion here:
[url]http://www.celestialheavens.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6257&highlight=emphasize[/url]
p.s
how can I make a link?
Answer > You need to bracket the text in URL tags like this: [url]link[/url]
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Asheron
Famous Hero
Ancient
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posted November 03, 2007 02:19 AM |
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I like to experiment to see what can I make out of each town  Offcourse,this is not meant for serious games,rather those single player ones...
@Odish - use that little planet-paper clip option when you reply 
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sphere
Supreme Hero
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posted November 03, 2007 05:49 AM |
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Edited by sphere at 05:58, 03 Nov 2007.
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Quote:
p.s
how can I make a link?
Hi,
- Like this
- Guz
P.S. Copy your link,  then insert your link there and name it ( link I did in mine This ) ...and your good to go
- Guz
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Who is this General Failure, and why is he looking at my disk ?
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted November 03, 2007 06:35 AM |
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I tend to try unorthadox skill combinations. If I get something offered that the faction I am with normally does not take, I take it. Some of the things I've managed to do (don't ask me WHY I did it mind you): Haven: Light, Dark, Destructive, Summoning, Sorcery, Enlightenment) to expert in each. A pure magic Haven..of course they stunk, but nobody ever saw it comming. Of course, to be honest this is REALLY hard to do (the chances of getting offered all of these is minute at best). Suprisingly though, they were awesome creepers, even teir 7 on heroic were cake walks.
If you feel like having a bit of fun, use the cheats or the map editor to start you out with some crazy skills that a town would never normally get or use. Some are really really chanllenging.
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Message received.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted November 03, 2007 08:45 AM |
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There are deffinitely some factions that benefit from taking unorthodox choices. One common example which I have myself had huge success with is taking Light Magic when I play Inferno, because Light provides great support for Inferno units (boosts Initiative and Attack and Damage which is valuable for a first-strike faction) and also provides Cleansing which will be a life-saver as you have few other ways to counter Dark spells (until you have Vampirism at least).
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What will happen now?
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Duncan
Famous Hero
The Pathfinder
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posted November 03, 2007 09:32 AM |
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First of, let's get frostwolf's point correctly. I see there are 3 possible route for discussions here:
1. Which alt upgrade to choose, def-oriented (Trapper) or att-oriented (Witch-Doctor) - I think this is frostwolf's initial point;
2. Which skills and perks to focus for development;
3. Which artifacts combination to wear to increase the primary stats or which stats to upgrade when visiting Arena or War Academy.
My opinion for (1) and (3) is simply to balance things out. Even when playing Barbarians, some of their more defensive creatures (Warmongers, Paokais, Bloodeyed Cyclops) are more awesome than the other alternatives. Sure, one needs to take into account the abilities as well in this regard. But my point here in general is to balance the troops between offense and defense traits. Same goes for (3), I wouldn't want my hero to have 20 Att and 5 Def regardless of the faction. Need to win some battles with min casualties.
As for (2), it's a bit tricky here. But major decision would depend on the perks to pursue, especially when Ultimate comes to mind. For example Absolute Rage and Urgash's Call require development in Attack whereas Absolute Protection requires Vit-Def Form-Prep route. Some choices seem quite obvious pick though, for example for Demon Lord, I take Flaming Arrows over other Def perks any day. I don't see any defense (or other perks for that matter) combo more fascinating than Flaming Arrows + Triple Ballista.
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But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it.
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Legendary_hero
Known Hero
Stronghold Warchief
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posted November 03, 2007 01:28 PM |
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Bloodeyed cyclops defencive come on they are the fastest of all cycopls both initiative and speed.Paokais defencive didn't you know that the lightning breath only triggers on attack.On defence it's useless.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted November 03, 2007 01:52 PM |
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They are in a way. The bloodeyed ones cause bad luck and pao kai have improved health over the wyverns.
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Map also hosted on Moddb
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Duncan
Famous Hero
The Pathfinder
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posted November 03, 2007 04:10 PM |
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Edited by Duncan at 17:10, 03 Nov 2007.
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I was referring to more on the Att, Def, Dmg & HP stats. Maybe I should've used Mauler vs Warmonger example, which is a very obvious case for classification even if init & abilities are also taken into consideration. But it doesn't really matter if we differ in opinion on which creatures are more attacking/defensive, because I don't think that's what's expected from this thread. What is your own opinion re. att/def orientation given the faction you play??
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But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it.
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sdfx
Famous Hero
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posted November 03, 2007 05:05 PM |
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High attack is good with high initiative.(sylvan loves getting attack)
High defense is good with low initiative.(fortress loves getting defense). Fortress in main battle is happy to face paladins, sylvan is happy to face champions.
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skullman
Famous Hero
banned
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posted November 03, 2007 09:37 PM |
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Quote:
High attack is good with high initiative.(sylvan loves getting attack)
High defense is good with low initiative.(fortress loves getting defense). Fortress in main battle is happy to face paladins, sylvan is happy to face champions.
High attack is also good with high speed
High defense is also good with low speed
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Slim-Sleeper
Hired Hero
Lazy
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posted November 04, 2007 12:58 PM |
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I just had a huge hotseat game with myself to test out alot of things, and I found out that if Fortress goes for defencive stuff it pwns pretty much.
However, I only had 4 towns, necro, heaven, stronghold and fortress. (perhaps other towns are better against fortress)
This was my first time playing fortress and stronghold (exept for some duelling to find out abit about the new guys...) and I haven't played heaven much either. Necro however I've played rather much so I actually thought I would own the map with necro.
Well, an early battle was not easy to do since the guards was so strong, so it was... say.. month 2 or something.. First fortress and heaven fought. And heaven lost misserably only killing a few guys.. Then Stronghold fought fortress and lost a bit less misserably and killing a few. Then I ran away with the fortress hero back to the city since the necro army was in his heels.
Bouth heroes had exp log, so the necro stayed a few dots behind all the way to the city.
I figured I would seige since I had death march, but that didn't help much....
I played with lucretica and had gotten a lot of vamps since a nice stack of 40 neutrals would join me. So it was a powerfull stack! It was a slow, hard, terrible battle and I though from the first minute that fortress would win. And yes, fortress won. Having ONLY some mountain guards left.. I think it was.. 20 or so mountainguards..
I was unlucky however.. Necro had frenzy and PM, but fortress had clensing and was ALWAYS next to lucretica on the ATB.. (yes, bouth had exp sorc so they stayed that way).
I chose mainly defencive stuff with the fortress hero... and it worked like a dream! In a really late battle (waited like 5 months or something just so all heroes would get large armies..) I did the same, heaven first, then stronghold, and then necro. This time there was NO chance! Heaven killed off the bear riders, but little else.. Stronghold managed to kill the thanes, but little else.. Necro killed of nothing and did a terrible battle...
The bottom line is, as said before, a slow (speed and init) army do not benefit much from att! I dont think it works good to try and ballance the stats.. With that fortress hero I had like... 50% aimed towards deff, 25% towards magic, and 25% towards att.. With skills and perks, arties... so on.. So basicly, even with a relatively low att, they still killed ALOT more enemies on the retaliate then the enemy killed of them in the attack! Thoose dwarfs never dies...
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted November 04, 2007 01:10 PM |
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Prepairedness (or whatever that defensive perk is) makes fortress even stronger. Put them on defense and let them retaliate BEFORE being attacked. It is a monster skill for them.
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Message received.
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