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| Thread: toh map journey |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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attila
Known Hero
Young Warrior
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posted November 06, 2001 03:06 AM |
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toh map journey
Me and wiggy_wam are going 2 try and play every toh map. So we will need your help to play with us on maps that we havent played and some 2vs2 maps. i am going 2 ahve 2 play some maps he has that i havent so help me out and play with me on those maps.  thanks attila.
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¤¤¤ Attila ¤¤¤
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wiggy_wam
Promising
Famous Hero
local pirate
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posted November 06, 2001 03:10 AM |
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21 out of 149.
138 more to go...
So far I can say that most these unpopular toh maps are a lot better than the popular ones (like dw, hg).
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RedSoxFan3
Admirable
Legendary Hero
Fan of Red Sox
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posted November 06, 2001 04:50 AM |
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Map Critiques
I just thought that maybe you should make some critiques of the popular maps and the unpopular ones that you thought were the best.
I just recently submitted a map, called Follow the Arrow. It should be on the map page soon.
Could you tell me what you think once you've played it? Always want to make things better.
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Go Red Sox!
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ironmlh
Known Hero
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posted November 06, 2001 06:14 AM |
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count me in
count me in, i have only played about 5 of the TOH games, my others have of course alll been random.
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wiggy_wam
Promising
Famous Hero
local pirate
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posted November 06, 2001 06:53 AM |
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map critiques (an objective view):
Desert Wars: very good design. However there exist certain things in this map that cause concerns:
- LOTS of random artifacts (ANY artifact) guarded by random creatures. this may cause ... peasants guarding Angelic Alliance, or bird of perception guarded by black dragons. This in itself causes it to be a luck map.
- because of the cobblestone roads, this map encourages something called "first day rushing". 1st day rushing is a legal method of cheating. It is when the red player forms a chain of heroes, recruits his reinforcements on day 1, and passes them down to his main hero to attack the blue castle on day one ... BEFORE the blue has the ability to recruit them, and afterward, recruiting the creatures from blues castle.
This is a very dishonorable tactic, and is only used by the dishonorable.
Now one may ask, why is it dishonorable? Because only the red player has this advantage. By definition, it is unfair.
Hourglass: looks good, but there's too many relics in this map. Any random relic WILL decide the game by luck. Add more of these, and it is still a game of luck. Add TONS of these, and it becomes a game of luck by a differing factor ... not by who has the better artifacts, but by who has the better spells. <-- why? because both heroes have stats like
24 18 21 17 ... and one spell of implosion will kill ALL your 7th level creatures ... and if you were not lucky enough to receive resurrection in your mage guilds, you're already dead.
Battlemania and West vs. East: both have two random relics. Lets just say this ... there were TWO exact instances on the map w vs e, where my relics were thunder helmet and ring of the magi, AND my opponent received Angelic Alliance!
relics will make your warriors battle-mages, and your wizards battle-mages. <--- a trait that should not be.
from my experience, the funnest maps are those without random relics, or they are very heavily guarded. I enjoy maps where the warriors stay warriors, and the wizards stay wizards, and not end up in a huge implosion / resurrection war where there's no fights, only spellcasting.
it is because of these traits in these "popular" maps that I have undertaken both map-making, AND trying to play ALL the toh maps.
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Motorschaaf
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted November 06, 2001 12:06 PM |
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Relics on Map = Luck Map ???!!!???
I dont think so
Not every Map with random artifacts and random relics is a luck map.
I think one important thing is which arts are banned and which are allowed.
If u bann the top 3 and the worst 3 relics u can make a map far more ballanced.
There are a lot Maps with relics which really need skill to play.
Best example is Showdown 3 i think.
You get a couple of random arts and relics but believe me all the luck cant save ya when u are facing a stronger player . he will kill ya.
Sure on every map u can have bad luck but on a good map the better player can turn bad luck into good using speed and accuracy.
To all those SOD - TOH players outhere :
If u lose because Your opponent got a combo art: IT's WHAT U DESERVE FOR PLAYING SOD !!!!!!
Sod just sucks , the combo arts are a bad joke of a programmer they should be disbanned on all multiplayer maps.
every Skill map turns into a Luck map when u playing SOD.
Hit-and-run-me-schaaf
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Zud
Promising
Famous Hero
box worshipper
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posted November 06, 2001 02:24 PM |
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I almost unloaded sod...but
I like all the new terrains and if you just take a minute to resave ROE maps with the SOD option, all combo's must be assembled.
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted November 06, 2001 03:12 PM |
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Motor, I disagree that Showdown3 is entirely skill.
It has as much luck as Hourglass. All you gotta do on SD3 is have the best starting draw. All you gotta do is be the first person to steal both topias. OR get one topia and rush over and attack your opponent before he gets other one so you have a 1-4 relic advantage on him. If you get both topias you can have as high as 8 more relics than him. So the game is not won by skill of players battling. It is won by your ability to beat the computer monsters fastest...and that is acheived by the luck of the computer draw to give you the goods to do it faster. In some cases there just is not the right combination of goodies on your side to break to middle till late week3 or early week 4, while your opponent was in middle late week2 getting unstoppable strong.
So basically any of the Race to middle maps, are far more luck based than anyother.
And before you say it, yes I ahve won a few times on SD3 when my opponent got both topias, so it can be done. But not very often will the person who takes the topias lose. In those cases both topias was 1 Blackie topias and the relics in them were doubles to the ones my opponent already had so in a sense he got no topia relics.
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Motorschaaf
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted November 06, 2001 05:17 PM |
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SD3
Quote:
Motor, I disagree that Showdown3 is entirely skill.
I agree . because there are no entirely skill maps. they don't exists. but comparing a great map with hourglass must be a joke 
And dont u think that if my opponent hits middle 2 weeks faster than me and clears both topias libary and steals my relics that he is skilled ?
a skill map in my opinion is a map where u got many possibilitys and tactics to change bad luck into luck . and on Showdown u got multiple possibilitys to do that.
also on showdown the utopias don't offer intresting stuff often because the best 2 relics can't be in them and they are heavyly guarded.
to hourglass....
every player got his side and who got best stuff on it wins..thats it.... LvL 7 joiners, free relics and dozens of shipwrecked make HG a map where definatly a very low amount of skill is required.
I would rate HG 90% luck 10% skill and SD3 85% skill 15 % luck
Luckmapssuckschaaf
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Mad_Unicorn
Famous Hero
I am a mean person shame on me
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posted November 06, 2001 05:55 PM |
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heres the lowdown on percentages
HourG = 80% luck 20% skill
DeseW = 75% luck 15% skill 10% tolerance factor
CrisC = 75% luck 5 % skill 20% tolerance factor
Rndm = 100% luck 0 % skill
Inva = 80% luck 20% skill (jinxer copied hg luck)
BattM = 95% luck 5 % skill
TheCh = 85% luck 15% skill (thechallenge if u dont know)
Dueli = cant be deciphered maker didn't ballance it normally
Fishy = ...............................................
Decep = 85% luck 15% skill 100% tolerance
what can u get from this... heroes is normally a luck game and only your skill makes you win when ur luck is bad.
unless ur flammi.... luck=100% skill=(we dont know always too damn lucky to tell).
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Zanudas
Tavern Dweller
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posted November 06, 2001 07:10 PM |
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Ya in homm there are a lot of luck. But with v good luck, and v bad skill. U realy sucks...
I ve a many newbyz who had good luck, much better that there oponet but they lost. Why? Coz they dont know map, and they dont know how to use there luck.
So skill is: As said Mad_uni... its win with bad luck, to know map and all its trick (It is not a problem after some games on the same map  ), and to know how to use ur good luck.
p.s. with out skill u are nothing in homm, even if u got the best luck of ur life... (Plz dont count 1 newby for homm vs other newby for homm... )
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RedSoxFan3
Admirable
Legendary Hero
Fan of Red Sox
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posted November 06, 2001 09:43 PM |
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Good Point. I think that I will make my artifacts accessable to everyone in an open manner, so that one doesn't lose the game from the good luck of artifacts or which crucial resources are collected early in the game.
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Go Red Sox!
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wiggy_wam
Promising
Famous Hero
local pirate
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posted November 07, 2001 02:11 AM |
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I agree with both motorshaaf and Mad-Unicorn.
first off, the level 4 artifacts (relics) are TOTALLY varied and not very balanced. Therefore by banning the best and worst relics, they are MUCH more balanced and thereby greatly decrease the amount of luck.
Mad-Unicorn, I like your analysis.
as for fishy ... it's just too fishy to be luck or skill ... in fishy, you rarely fight the cpu. All you do is gather creatures to fight eachother on resource islands. Check out hot-spot, it's a much better map I made.
HotSpot is one of those constant battle for resources (like fishy), but not nearly as fishy.
I would venture to say that (by Mad's analysis) it's 40% luck, 60% skill.
PS - I think there's more skill required in random maps than hg... only because it requires scouting, investing, and FIGHTING for relics... unlike hg.
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haile73
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted November 07, 2001 09:37 AM |
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*Commercial*
For those of you who like to play random maps, without some of the shortcomings of the map generator, should have a look on the Heroes Encounters Tournament:
http://heroes-encounters.50megs.com/
New players are always welcome - Ironmlh is already in there (in fact he's the Number 1  )
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jiels
Adventuring Hero
LFM C'thun, pst.
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posted November 07, 2001 11:58 AM |
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Hi Haile73
Nice to see you here!
You must really like Encounters to be posting that. Here let me help you. To view Encounters go here.
jiels (that annoying linking person)
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haile73
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted November 07, 2001 12:26 PM |
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hehe.. of course I like Encounters - in my opinion, it complements ToH very well. Its organization is great (like ToH's is). Level of competition isn't as dense as in ToH, but that's why I'm hoping for more players to join. Even if that means more work for the organisator
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Zanudas
Tavern Dweller
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posted November 07, 2001 06:11 PM |
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But imho there are no chance to have so many playaers in Encoders tourn... like in TOH. WHY? Coz, encoders rulez are a bit wierd, and TOH ones are v simply, fight and report. Nothing more.
But its realy fine tournament. (I mean Encoders 1).
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zsa
Famous Hero
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posted November 07, 2001 06:58 PM |
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Random, Random, Random
Ok, I'm not gonna start arguing again(with me ) about the toh-random maps issue.
I'll just say this - those who think random maps are only about luck, they haven't played much random maps or they had a bad experience with the random generator.
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wiggy_wam
Promising
Famous Hero
local pirate
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posted November 07, 2001 09:50 PM |
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heh, if you think the HOMM3 random map generator is bad, you should have seen the HOMM2 map generator!!
yeah, some of the random map set-ups still suck.
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destro23
Promising
Famous Hero
Keeper of GrongGrong
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posted November 07, 2001 09:52 PM |
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Agree!
Random is certainly not 100% luck..
Although luck plays a huge role in a random map.. you have to know how to "make" yourself lucky..
I don't care what anyone says it takes skill to go through some of those stacks of monsters on the strong setting.
you could wait till week 4 maybe 5 but chances are by then your opponent has "made" himself very lucky
I think that you people who say random is luck have gotten some really bad maps.. or really bad players that don't appreciate some of the rules that NEED to be set to play a tolerable random map.
I mean you can look at those records of players who play exclussively random maps.. They are ALWAYS lucky?? no one gets 40 odd games won through sheer luck.. its just not possible.
I think my random record is about 1-15 lol not because I am horribly unlucky but because the players have been better than me..
Only thing I will agree with is that DD scrolls, or boxs will win "Most" games, but not all.
Bottom line is that finding a nice relic or quest or box on a random is no different than getting a nice relic in that spot the designer placed it.
Well now that I wrote a book that noone will read I get back to the topic at hand.
I'd love to play any and all toh maps with you guys as well. Blind is my favorite.
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The Dead Walk!!!
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