|
| Thread: Necropolis Town (better or worse than before?) |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT» |
|
niteshade
Known Hero
|
posted November 15, 2001 01:30 AM |
|
|
|
I don't think having the buildings in the same place for each town is that big of a deal. The towns still have a very different look to them, and if you didn't know that rule was true you might not even have noticed it that much.
|
|
vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
|
posted November 15, 2001 01:34 AM |
|
|
If that is the reason, the problem is easy to fix: the outpost towns could have provisory constructions that your hero would demolish before rising your new town.
____________
MANE, TEKEL, FARES
|
|
Darion
Promising
Famous Hero
|
|
posted November 15, 2001 03:28 AM |
|
|
Ummm... they are different as in yes they have different types of buildings and different terrain... but should that be it?
"Martha Stewart introduces the designer castle.. smash hit with the Heroes IV world! Decorate YOUR castle nice and neat with this self help plan! Efreets becoming messy with that fire lake? Hydras taking too much space in your castle? Fix it up with CastleBlah 1.4! Make all your dwellings in the same place for an attractive "scrubbed clean and sanitized" look that is not naturally found in real life!
Sorry... I get sarcastic when I get passionate. But at any rate, they aren't much different at all. And if the outpost towns are generic... make it a different town then! So if you have a generic town hall, tavern, castle etc.. then when you build it the screen will morph into your selected castle! It shouldn't be that hard.... and it would work fine too.
____________
|
|
vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
|
|
posted November 15, 2001 03:37 AM |
|
|
Quote:
I don't think having the buildings in the same place for each town is that big of a deal. The towns still have a very different look to them, and if you didn't know that rule was true you might not even have noticed it that much.
I think the opposite, and having the buildings in the same place seems to bother me and others quite a lot.
Oh, my humble eyes have noticed a lot if I may tell you, and my brain has processed what my eyes have seen...
Different look for the towns? Oh, look deeper...beyond colors and shapes...now you see it?
____________
MANE, TEKEL, FARES
|
|
Crusher_vamp...
Hired Hero
Leader of vampires
|
posted November 15, 2001 06:02 AM |
|
|
If the Necropolis won't have vampires in it ... the hell with h4 (and that is that!)
Vlad was right h3 towns looked 100000000000x better than they look now in h4! There's a real lach of atmosphere ... and the building being in the same places for all towns that really s*cks! What were they thinking when they did this to HOMM!!!!! or maybe they wanted to get a more commercial HOMM ... aahh.. the hell with this art(???)work in h4!
THIS NEW HOMM COULD TURN OUT TO BE VERY DISAPOINTING FOR MUST OF US OLD HOMM FUNS(I played this game since homm1 first appeared and I'm playing it ever since).
____________
Death may lie and wait, and death may fly, but with passing eons even death may die...
|
|
Lith-Maethor
Honorable
Legendary Hero
paid in Coin and Cleavage
|
|
posted November 15, 2001 09:18 AM |
|
|
calm down bloodsuckers...
...vamps will be better as neutrals... they were always too self absorbed to help anyone else... I can't say I'm thrilled with their "Christofer Lee, Dracula" look though... as for the feeling ofthe towns... yeah, sure having all the buildings in the same place can be frustrating but the game is not over yet... give them a chance... they have never dissappointed us before (at least not that much), changes are still being made I don't think the "Martha Stewart" feeling will be there in the final look of towns... do't forget that they did it to make the game more appealing to new players... us die hard fans will be there and judge as well, but they can't rely on us alone... it's called buisness 
____________
You are suffering from delusions of adequacy.
|
|
sikmar
Promising
Known Hero
The Moonchild
|
|
posted November 15, 2001 12:32 PM |
|
|
Boring towns
I'm sorry cos I've repeated this idea at least in three threads before, but yes, that "dot matrix" towns are very boring. Individually they look great (I have the preserve as wallpaper right now), but they look all the same.
In the past, when I was introducing HOMM2 or HOMM3 to a friend, I used to load an own-made map with all the towns fully developed and take a tour on the marvelous and varied HOMM3 atmospheric towns. I used to start in the Erathian Castle and finish in the Eofol Inferno (cos it was the most impressive for me, with that red heat sensation), and it was such a journey across many different worlds. Even my mother (60 years old and completely out of computers world) kept staring at the Rampart town, maybe cos it was so close to the village she was born at.
Now I find difficult to recognize at a glance which type of town I'm looking, or to show the differences to a non-Homm fan. I admit it wasn't easy to recreate that atmospheric towns having to implement the optional building tree, but... 3DO had made more difficult things.
Anyway, I accept the two main disadvantages of HOMM4. For me these are the scarce numbers in creatures and towns and the look-a-like towns. I accept them cos I see the great effort they've put in other aspects: hero development, adventure map and battle screens. If HOMM4 could have twice the creatures it has and a good climatic design for towns, it would be perfect, but perfection is always an unreachable target.
____________
This is my truth. Tell me yours
|
|
niteshade
Known Hero
|
|
posted November 15, 2001 09:20 PM |
|
|
Hmm.....I don't know, I never have the slightest difficulty telling the towns apart. They have radicaly different color schemes and themes. And even with the buildings in the same place, they don't always seem like they are in exactly the same place. Notice how the buildings in the academy seem to blend together in fit in well, while the buildings in the asylum seem to stick out be chaoticly placed.
To me the fact that the building in the lower left is always a creature generator is irrelevent. It's the overall look that matters.
|
|
vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
|
posted November 16, 2001 01:43 AM |
|
|
Quote:
I'm sorry cos I've repeated this idea at least in three threads before, but yes, that "dot matrix" towns are very boring. Individually they look great (I have the preserve as wallpaper right now), but they look all the same.
In the past, when I was introducing HOMM2 or HOMM3 to a friend, I used to load an own-made map with all the towns fully developed and take a tour on the marvelous and varied HOMM3 atmospheric towns. I used to start in the Erathian Castle and finish in the Eofol Inferno (cos it was the most impressive for me, with that red heat sensation), and it was such a journey across many different worlds. Even my mother (60 years old and completely out of computers world) kept staring at the Rampart town, maybe cos it was so close to the village she was born at.
Now I find difficult to recognize at a glance which type of town I'm looking, or to show the differences to a non-Homm fan. I admit it wasn't easy to recreate that atmospheric towns having to implement the optional building tree, but... 3DO had made more difficult things.
Anyway, I accept the two main disadvantages of HOMM4. For me these are the scarce numbers in creatures and towns and the look-a-like towns. I accept them cos I see the great effort they've put in other aspects: hero development, adventure map and battle screens. If HOMM4 could have twice the creatures it has and a good climatic design for towns, it would be perfect, but perfection is always an unreachable target.
Sikmar is right and I, too, forgive them (partially) for the towns and creatures.But there's still plenty of time to change things around and the image of a static castle is the simplest thing.It's a matter of days and it's fully worth so this is for the 3do guys: get to work!
____________
MANE, TEKEL, FARES
|
|
Crusher_vamp...
Hired Hero
Leader of vampires
|
|
posted November 16, 2001 02:16 PM |
|
|
Quote:
do't forget that they did it to make the game more appealing to new players... us die hard fans will be there and judge as well, but they can't rely on us alone... it's called buisness
MORE APPEALING TO WHO? >>> idiotic gamers that only play shot'em ups or just games based on reflexes and NOT YOUR MIND!!! (I think that this will lead to an oversimplified version of HOMM which will surely bother me!!!)
____________
Death may lie and wait, and death may fly, but with passing eons even death may die...
|
|
Gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
|
|
posted November 16, 2001 04:59 PM |
|
|
i guess the reason is lack of creatures.. maybe they could make the buildings larger and culp them together so that they overlap, though. but then they would have to change the position of the camera, and i am not exactly sure if e.g. preserve would look as good as it does now if they did that.
btw, maybe the not so clustered placement of buildings and the camera position are meant to create an atmosphere similar to the adventure map?
i guess the building placement is convenient both for the new and the experienced players. the new players often have less to manage or are willing to spend more time to admire the town first before recruiting, etc. the new players will be less confused and the experienced players can do the routine things faster without having to think every time.
btw, it's no trouble if you have to recognize preserve from the necro or asylum. but telling the asylum and necro apart would be more trouble, depending on what dwellings have been built and what terrains they are on. when you play the game fast, doing some routine things, i doubt you see much more than a colored area in the town screen (well, not that radical, but sth like that). and the background color helped a lot in homm3.
well, there are some negative sides with the town screens, but they have been mentioned already, and i just wanted to balance them out a bit.
and.. btw i like the new engine and most of the graphics much more than homm3. but there better the graphics in general, the more the nasty exceptions stick out.
========
ok, finally to the topic of the thread again (have to take a look what it was, because i already forgot):
preserver:
imho the fact that you are falling asleep when you are playing the necro town in homm3 just indicates the fact that you have a different attitude to the game than the players who play necro and like it. there should be a place for many kinds of players with different attitudes. maybe the necro is not the place that suits you? thereis no need to spoil the way of playing that they like most by introducing e.g. elves in the necro to make it look like a town that has some style in your opinion (as i have understood it). btw, the inclusion of the inferno creatures in the necro spoils the attitude of the necro just like an inclusion of the elves would. necro is the town that should have the peace of the underworld and the respect for the dead, not merry (and mischievious) red-colored imps stimulating the corpses with pitchforks. this is humiliating, i say.
____________
what is the safest way to pass your time? heroes community -- your posts won't affect almost anything
|
|
vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
|
|
posted November 17, 2001 12:35 AM |
|
|
btw, maybe the not so clustered placement of buildings and the camera position are meant to create an atmosphere similar to the adventure map?
My impresion after seeing the screenshots with the adventure map is that they complicated it quite a bit.
instead of the plaines of h2 and h3 where your heroes could wander they introduced the vegetation and impassable terrain, so you'll have to stick to the roads in general.Sure, that depends of the map-maker, but I say what I've seen so far.
So, if they aglomerated the map, why doing the opposite with the towns?Town and map don't fit together anymore...
The map creates the impresion of real savage grounds.
____________
MANE, TEKEL, FARES
|
|
Crusher_vamp...
Hired Hero
Leader of vampires
|
posted November 17, 2001 05:01 AM |
|
|
I saw some new screen shots at hmm4.com of the adventurer map which look really great! an... sad but true also the final final of the final release date...geee... march 2002 ... we'll have to wait quite a bit...
____________
Death may lie and wait, and death may fly, but with passing eons even death may die...
|
|
Crusher_vamp...
Hired Hero
Leader of vampires
|
posted November 19, 2001 12:56 AM |
|
|
Let's get back to the subject of this thread plz ...
Does anybody think that imps should have anything to do with necropolis?? (I DON't) They should be kicked out (let's don't forget the venom spawn)!
____________
Death may lie and wait, and death may fly, but with passing eons even death may die...
|
|
vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
|
posted November 19, 2001 11:20 PM |
|
|
Personaly I have nothing against imps, they have the right to be in the game BUT they should not replace necro-monsters.If there were 10 levels in each town, yes, they could be in...but in this case they should find another home. Same goes for the venom spawn, and going further, this one really is terrible and should be excluded from the start. The idea that it could replace the venom spawn is frightening me.
____________
MANE, TEKEL, FARES
|
|
Svetac
Promising
Known Hero
Saintified Paladin
|
|
posted November 27, 2001 06:54 PM |
|
|
I have one question here.
Will the Necropolis be the same town without Vampires? The ones that were the main force of the Necropolis? I don't think so. It will mean significant change of the Necropolis. Even bigger one than the Necro/Demon unification. But what do you think?
____________
--- Paladin of the Macedon ---
|
|
Gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
|
|
posted November 27, 2001 08:57 PM |
|
|
so it's bad, but what could be better?
(a few questions summarized in the end)
well, imho mixing inferno and necro might have sth to do with creature lineups..
some ppl have said that there are enough creatures to put together a full necro (underworld) town, and i started to think what these creatures could be. i got sth like that:
well, skeleton available through necromancy..
1) zombie (walker), ghost (flyer)
2) vampire (flyer), plague (caster)
3) dead knight (walker), lich (shooter or caster)
4) bone dragon (walker) or ghost dragon (flyer), grim reaper (flyer or caster)
btw imho bone dragon should not have wings that are fit for flying that's why i would have the ghost dragon as the flyer. also, ghost dragon might have about 20% ability to raise ghost dragons from killed 4-th level creatures. that way you would want to attack the ghost dragon with lower level creatures rather.
if the grim reaper has instant kill ability as the mighty gorgon did, it might depend on the creature level differences, so heroes would not die so easily.
and imho the lower level the ghost is, the better, because there would be less creatures who would die easily to the ghost that way with the retal system.
well.. didn't even have to use the mummy..
========
btw one way to move the inferno to the asylum (or i would call it the pandemonium rather), would be to move the hydra to the preserve replacing the faery dragon. and a choice between the phoenix and a regenerating hydra for some more solid backup might be more interesting than, a choice between the phoenix and the faery dragon. anyone knows what is so chaotic about the hydra (except the upgrade was called 'chaos hydra' in homm3)? and the choice between black dragon and the devil would probably be more interesting either.
the pandemonium would look sth like that:
(arranged as asylum/inferno)
1) rogue (walker), imp (flyer)
2) medusa (shooter), cerberus (walker)
3) minotaur (walker), efreet (flyer or caster)
4) black dragon (flyer), devil (caster)
imho imps (mischievious rather than evil creatures) would fit the chaos town rather perfectly, and especially with the rogue. and mixing towns might suit the cahos better as well. and the asylum town looks like a perfect medieval painting of hell to me.
the problem is that with this lineup we would get rid of the nightmare which is a favourite of many. well, we might get rid of either the rogue, the medusa or the minotaur instead. but if we did that, and assuming that nightmare is an inferno creature rather than dungeon one (is it?), we would get two inferno creatures on level 3.
now, how do you ppl suppose a pure necro town could be done? getting rid of the nightmare and having ot only as the horse of the hero on the adventure map or a summonable creature, or getting rid of one of the abovementioned creatures would be ok? or do you have any other ideas?
========
when i was looking for pentagram interpretations in the net a few weeks ago i didn't find the life-order-death-chaos-nature interpretation readily available (where are the origins of this interpretation? if it's mtg only, where are the origins of the mtg interpretation?). the only ones i found were sth like spirit-air-fire-water-earth, and mind over laws of nature (upright) or laws of nature over mind (inverted). so it might make sense to have the inferno in the corner of the pentagram that corresponds to fire, but on the other hand, the black dragon and the destructive fire magic in the corner of the pentagram that corresponds to water (as far as i remember), sounds really strange.
========
so, i guess it's a long and messy post (thanks for reading it, if you did), the questions i am uncertain about, would be:
1) what's chaotic about the hydra?
2) is the nightmare an inferno or a dungeon creature?
3) would it be ok to remove the nightmare from recruitable creatures?
4) if we kept the nightmare recruitable, would it be ok if either the rogue, the medusa, or the minotaur would disappear from among recruitable creatures and if the nightmare is an inferno creature, having two inferno creatures on the same level?
5) where does the life-order-death-chaos-nature interpretation come from, i.e. what is it's philosophical (not gameplay) origin?
6) any other ideas how we could have a pure necro?
if we have no ideas how we could have a pure necro, i am afraid that the discussion here is just as fruitless as just saying that it's a sad story inferno and necro have been mixed. i.e. i doubt it is worth it.
____________
what is the safest way to pass your time? heroes community -- your posts won't affect almost anything
|
|
Pyromancer
Adventuring Hero
|
|
posted November 28, 2001 02:00 PM |
|
|
about the unification of towns
maybe they are unified because of the resources needed to the strongest monsters:
bone dragons - devils - mercury
black dragons - hydras - sulfur
behemoth - cyclops(you need many crystals to build the cyclops cave in hmm3) - crystal
anyway i like the idea undead and demons to be in 1 town. i think the differnces between them is unclear (to me perhaps). and i have also a question: who is the spellcaster in the Necropolis?
|
|
vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
|
posted November 29, 2001 11:32 PM |
|
|
imho mummies are needed back in the necrotown.And they could be the spellcasters.
____________
MANE, TEKEL, FARES
|
|
Crusher_vamp...
Hired Hero
Leader of vampires
|
posted November 30, 2001 12:41 AM |
|
|
Quote:
skeleton available through necromancy..
1) zombie (walker), ghost (flyer)
2) vampire (flyer), plague (caster)
3) dead knight (walker), lich (shooter or caster)
4) bone dragon (walker) or ghost dragon (flyer), grim reaper (flyer or caster)
Your idea of Necropolis is AWESOME!(especially the abilities of bone/ghost dragon)
I also think that vampires shouldn't be missing necropolis lineup, and the lich .... yeah!
NOT that crap inferno/necropolis mix!
____________
Death may lie and wait, and death may fly, but with passing eons even death may die...
|
| |
|
|
