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| Thread: Being a bad player... |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Riotlung
Tavern Dweller
A Royal Pain
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posted March 06, 2008 03:15 PM |
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Alas, this time, I have failed. I was running around in the dungeons a little too late. While there were 5 Dungeon towns, most almost fully built, I managed to capture 4 of them. Holding them was the issue, because the computer built a super hero. I don't know the level of their Alamar, he had 11 power and 12 knowledge or something like that. A friggin huge armies that number to 400 infernal troglodytes. Almost 200 medusa queens. Nothing could be done. He went on and took down my big heroes which captured the towns initially. Now Alamar has captured and is holding one of the Dungeons seized back from me and preparing to reclaim the other Dungeons. I have Solmyr going around the final Dungeon town and claiming mines and external dwellings. Once my Astral came in from above, I combined their troops, dropped them to Solmyr, and tried to take the Dungeon town. While I had 6 Titans, 4 Red Dragons and 3 Black Dragons, I still failed to capture the town!
I think I need a break from this game.
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"I will destroy their minds and burn their bodies." -Librarian, Dawn Of War
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ruho
Hired Hero
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posted March 06, 2008 03:20 PM |
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Edited by ruho at 15:29, 06 Mar 2008.
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Quote:
What about Griffin Conservatories and Dwarven Treasuries?
Two smallest (5*10, 5*15) Dwarven Treasuries can usually be taken late first week and the rest (5*20, 5*30) on second week. Note that you don't often even need spells for it (though it's much safer and easier with them) since Dwarves are pretty easy to lure back and forth, without having to sacrafice fodder by doing so, because of their low speed.
You need two damage dealing stack (usually ranged stack + L6-stack) and preferably fast fodder. Good starting formations varies depending on the army, but the main points of the fights are the same. Kill the left side stacks first (if BDs, then that stack first, and lure the other away so it won't block ranged stack/attack melee stack the next round) and get left side to a tight pack, which is then easy to lure. And use those fodders to take off the retalation before attackin with melee stack. I don't remeber clearly but by placing your 5th stack (single fodder) next to (2? rounds away on grass) the last moving stack and then doing "something" (waiting, moving) with your 2nd and 7th stacks you get those three right side Dwarf-stack next to each other.
Griffin Conservatories are much trickier because of their high speed and no retalation-ability. I don't have a good general timeline & tactics for doing them, but here's some info.
As far as I know, a "full house" (5*40) is only doable in general in average rich maps on week2 with Tower and mass Slow (Master Gremlins, Naga Gueens, Master Genies + fodder) due to their ability to do do seroius damage without retalation. Otherwise you need something "special" again. In richer maps (Jebus Cross-template) you could do it with your L7 stack and some spells. Angelito has made a thread which describes exactly how to do it, so search the link to it from his profile.
Smallest one (5*10) can sometimes be taken week1 with good stack/stats/spells and should be easy week 2.
5*20 can be often taken week 2 with good army & hero, but for 5*30 you need mass Slow or something "special".
It's really hard to give a general timeline because it varies so much: In Jebus you prolly should be able to take them all week 2, but on poorer much that's pretty impossible and still Shakti could be doing 5*20 Cons fist week on those poorer maps.
Some not-so-great tactic tips. Because of their no retalation ability, you should have either strong stack(s) who can take them pretty much down with single blow, or then high hp stack(s) (L6-L7), who can take some damage from retalation and with some help from spells & fodder being able to do the job without losing units. Use only ranged stack if it is safe, meaning u can kill/weaken enough those left side stacks or have mass Slow  . Luring Griffins is hard (but essential) beacuse of their high speed , so fast fodder would be nice. Unlike with Dwarves, u sould try to get the right side stack apart from each other so that they wouldn't came to attack you on the left side within the same turn. And, of course, spell are essential on these fights.
Please note that those luring parts are highly risky without Spirit of Oppression. And those tips may be far from the best
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ruho
Hired Hero
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posted March 06, 2008 04:06 PM |
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Quote:
Riotlung wrote :
Alas, this time, I have failed. I was running around in the dungeons a little too late. While there were 5 Dungeon towns, most almost fully built, I managed to capture 4 of them. Holding them was the issue, because the computer built a super hero. I don't know the level of their Alamar, he had 11 power and 12 knowledge or something like that. A friggin huge armies that number to 400 infernal troglodytes. Almost 200 medusa queens. Nothing could be done. He went on and took down my big heroes which captured the towns initially. Now Alamar has captured and is holding one of the Dungeons seized back from me and preparing to reclaim the other Dungeons. I have Solmyr going around the final Dungeon town and claiming mines and external dwellings. Once my Astral came in from above, I combined their troops, dropped them to Solmyr, and tried to take the Dungeon town. While I had 6 Titans, 4 Red Dragons and 3 Black Dragons, I still failed to capture the town!
I think I need a break from this game.
You got lucky! There's a whole thread about how to beat that map. From that thread you can see when people (Angelito) are doing different things and you could try to do those as early by yourself. [url=http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=21388&pagenumber=1]Here you are[/url].
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Riotlung
Tavern Dweller
A Royal Pain
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posted March 06, 2008 04:50 PM |
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Edited by Riotlung at 17:00, 06 Mar 2008.
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Yes! That's the darn map!
I remember spending a lot of time above ground because I was trying to clear everything above ground. Dwellings, treasure chests and such. But I didn't go down as early as using only 7 grand elves and some other ragtag troops. By the time I hit the enemy towns, they each had the manticore lair, at the very least.
After some time, I'll probably get back to this game and this map again. Maybe tomorrow, or a few days later. It's quite shocking to find yourself doing so well till month 3+ and suddenly run into some super hero with tons and tons of troops.
Edit: I had a look at the map Binabik posted. Interesting... The Castle level 4 mage guild will definitely give Prayer and Town Portal. I didn't even build my mage guild that far (I took the 3 level 1 mage guild bonus)! If I had Town Portal, my life would be so much easier... Time to get Christian to take Expert Earth and Advanced Wisdom!
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"I will destroy their minds and burn their bodies." -Librarian, Dawn Of War
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Fal
Hired Hero
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posted March 06, 2008 09:05 PM |
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Just some general strategy that works in all maps  your should give your main hero very clear tasks, i.e. to fight monsters, to get certain resources, to clear the path to enemy town, to level up. For example, use your main hero to kill the monsters guarding the mines/resources, but don't waste his movement points collecting those resources (unless you want xp or stats), instead, have a support hero do that and send your main hero to kill the next stack of monsters.
when your main hero run out of troops you can always fight some neutral monster and flee, for an extra 2500 gold you save all the movement points you need to get back to the castle.
Also you need to coordinate your castle development with your main hero, if you don't need something - no matter how attractive it appears - don't build it.
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When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk.
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Xarfax111
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
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posted March 07, 2008 02:09 PM |
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Your advices lack in quality. Players should prefer not to follow them.
Quote:
For example, use your main hero to kill the monsters guarding the mines/resources, but don't waste his movement points collecting those resources (unless you want xp or stats), instead, have a support hero do that and send your main hero to kill the next stack of monsters.
Dont waste movement points of your main on those guarding monsters, thats a waste, thats scout-chain work. Worst thing you can do is to turn resources into xp, thats newbie stuff: Your main will get enough experience from bigfights anyway.
Quote:
when your main hero run out of troops you can always fight some neutral monster and flee, for an extra 2500 gold you save all the movement points you need to get back to the castle.
When your main is running out of troops you are really doing/plaining something wrong. I assume that you are playing magic style <-- not really succesful.
Quote:
Also you need to coordinate your castle development with your main hero, if you don't need something - no matter how attractive it appears - don't build it.
No matter what, try to build a creature building any day of the week. Dont waste resources on money buildings, they are just a waste of resources(even if some newbie and even some experienced players here say else). Creature building are first class priority above (almost) every thing else.
Xarfax1
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Fal
Hired Hero
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posted March 07, 2008 03:30 PM |
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heh, I see why you are bad mannered and have a quality count of -4, though that 'famous hero' status must mean many good players have suffered your insightful quality criticisms.
Well, I am not sure how exactly do you understand 'main hero', on week one you should have your main hero ready to take out the mines and random resources (with your starting troops, and some troops recruited in town), how do you expect to send your main hero into a 'big fight' early in the game??? Well it's just plain n00b balderdash for even saying that's newbie stuff.
Whenever I play Heroes III the I play for speed, it is very important that my main hero goes out with his starting troops (plus whatever he can get on day one), get as many resources/mines/artifacts as he can while not moving back to town to recruit troops, chaining good but not always possible. and no I normally start with might hero.
I dispute the last point, though it is true in the SP/MP maps that you are not constantly threatened by your opponents. In small, intense, resource-deficient maps it is VERY important that you coordinate your castle development and make sure you DO NOT over develop.
And if you think I am talking nonsense, try finish 'eternal love' campaign map 2 in 1 month 3 weeks, map 3 in 2 months.
Fal
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When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted March 07, 2008 04:21 PM |
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Edited by angelito at 16:21, 07 Mar 2008.
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And if you think I am talking nonsense, try finish 'eternal love' campaign map 2 in 1 month 3 weeks, map 3 in 2 months.
Fal
Don't mix up custom made maps/campaigns with random maps. Quite different play style.
And when did u break the garrison to Rampart area in map 3? (the one with 20 golddragons and the other rampart units...)
And what was your final score now?
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted March 07, 2008 04:24 PM |
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Fixed maps you memorize the maps & you try to find the best way of breaking through them with a similar pattern everytime you play it.
Randoms can become unpredictable at times.
Well at least before you could make them.
Randoms you have to use your head a little more & common sence.
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Dreaming of a Better World
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Fal
Hired Hero
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posted March 07, 2008 04:55 PM |
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I totally agree with you both I was merely making a point that speed is an important factor.
Angelito, I broke the garrison on day six, week 1, I took all the AI Rampart towns by day 2, week 2. Although I must admit I cheated a little: I gave the eagle eye hero seven level one troops (one in each slot) and cast chain-lightening on the garrison and flee, I did this three times till I had no gold left, I then had the knight hero attack with her dragons. Not exactly honorable thing to do but hey end justify the means 
I almost completed map 4, being a bit slow as I've been busy with my work. the later maps are tougher though and will last a bit longer than 2, 3 months...Not sure but will do my best to get an amazing score
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When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted March 07, 2008 06:08 PM |
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Break the garrison week 1 day 2 without hit and run tactic, then we talk again..
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Fal
Hired Hero
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posted March 07, 2008 06:31 PM |
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LOL I've tried, not possible
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When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted March 07, 2008 07:06 PM |
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Quote:
LOL I've tried, not possible
It is possible
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Riotlung
Tavern Dweller
A Royal Pain
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posted March 07, 2008 07:25 PM |
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You guys are scary. I'm not exactly feeling confident about getting through the campaign unscathed. So early game the procedure probably involves beefing up your hero (main if you can find one) with some supplementary troops, and then start claiming resources quickly? As he gets farther from the town, you resupply him with chaining?
And if you need to get to several places at once, you build up another main hero with strong troops also and maintain him with chaining too?
I have a feeling it is far far more complicated than that.
Angelito, maybe you could record videos or something so that we could see how you accomplish such feats
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"I will destroy their minds and burn their bodies." -Librarian, Dawn Of War
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Fal
Hired Hero
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posted March 07, 2008 11:05 PM |
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OH NO I have to play the campaign again to achieve THE best score!!!
LoL okay Angelito, you beat me there. That's good one, not that I really tried but I never thought it's possible maybe you should post your score too
Riotlung, of course it's good to have two main heroes, provided that you have enough resources to support them, but it's far more efficient if you have one main hero early in the game, and in many games, it is enough to have one main hero. You should maintain chaining whenever possible but it's not always achievable. It is far more important to claim resources early in the game than beefing up your heroes
And don't feel threatened by the 'Eternal love' campaign, in this campaign you have some serious beefcake heroes, it's different from RoE campaigns.
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When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted March 07, 2008 11:14 PM |
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Eternal Love campaign. Score = 2050
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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dimis
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Digitally signed by FoG
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posted March 08, 2008 02:30 AM |
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I hate you!
'nough said!
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The empty set
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Riotlung
Tavern Dweller
A Royal Pain
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posted March 08, 2008 06:54 PM |
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I've attempted the scenario again, this time being more focused on what my heroes should do, and striking a balance between speed and confidence. I've gone into the dungeons in the third week, with Champions (upgraded from cavaliers at the external Stable) being my strongest creature. It surprises me at how early I could strke at mine, chest and resource guardians with the starting troops with a couple of additions by day 2 (grab those in the dwellings, pop up a couple more dwellings, start killing the guardians). Hopefully this attempt will be much more successful.
I run into some resource problems though. I don't have the resource to purchase all my troops!
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"I will destroy their minds and burn their bodies." -Librarian, Dawn Of War
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Garamoth
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 09, 2008 02:18 AM |
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Oh yeah, that might be obvious enough, but if you are playing a campaign in which you keep your heroes (which is all of them except three or four), make sure you check if any mage guilds have fly/dim door/town portal in them. It's a humongous help on the later maps and it's definitively worth the few extra days, even if you're playing solely for the highest score. With town portal and dimension door, you can complete both of the two final maps of the armageddon's blade campaign in five days total. Neato. 
Libraries of enlightenment are so good that they're also worth keeping a look for. If you're feeling pretty nervous, you can also visit every stat boosting location with your main hero... but I find that a chore like that takes a lot of fun out of the game.
Anyway, none of that applies to tunnel and troglodytes. Sorry.  On that map, I've found the sea route to be pretty useless. Just send a flunky with navigation to reveal the map and get lots of wood and gold. I've never seen the computer ever climb on a boat on that map, but if he does you can town portal back home before he hits the shore and kick his butt.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted March 11, 2008 01:39 PM |
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Quote:
'nough said!
Me? 
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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