|
| Thread: Triple ballista and flaming arrows |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
|
valkyrica
Supreme Hero
|
posted April 06, 2008 06:22 PM |
|
|
Poll Question:
Triple ballista and flaming arrows
I wanted to make this poll separate than the mod one, because I find that after losing 5 games to a ballista with flaming arrows only and not being that kind of player who whines after his losses, the game needs a solution.
You should be able to enjoy any map, no matter its size, any matchup, without the fear of having to build your hero around a single thing, it kills imagination.
Assuming ToH mod gets voted, these would be 3 areas that could be worked at.
I, personally, am for the first one, makes sense. It will have a limited amount of shots (same as the tent), making it still very much useful in any given fight, but making you think who to strike and when.
And, of course, wouldn't ruin the final fight by taking out all your army w/o any trouble at all.
|
|
Strider_HL
Famous Hero
|
posted April 06, 2008 06:29 PM |
|
|
9 rounds or 9 shots (3 rounds)?? Usually final's outcome is decided within first three turns...
Actually, I like the idea about cutting Flaming arrows bonus... Let's say from 100% to 50% defence reduction.
|
|
insatiable
Supreme Hero
Ultimate N00bidity
|
|
posted April 06, 2008 07:21 PM |
|
|
my vote for 50% ruduction of def
____________
|
|
yasmiel
Supreme Hero
Former Chessmaster
|
|
posted April 06, 2008 07:28 PM |
|
|
50% would greatly increase the balance of the skill.
Any ability that ignores huge amount of defense is overpowered imho. Arcane Archers included.
____________
|
|
Elit
Famous Hero
|
|
posted April 06, 2008 07:30 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Actually, I like the idea about cutting Flaming arrows bonus... Let's say from 100% to 50% defence reduction.
Very good suggestion.
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted April 06, 2008 08:09 PM |
|
|
I'll have to agree with the reduction.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
the_teacher
Supreme Hero
Talk to the hand!
|
|
posted April 06, 2008 09:11 PM |
|
|
|
reduction is the best way to not change completelly game's initial idea and still having a huge benefit from ballista. 50% = good idea. it has my vote.
|
|
Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
|
|
posted April 06, 2008 09:39 PM |
|
|
|
Sorry guys, but voting may be futile since I cannot see any way to change Flaming Arrows in the data files. There are no stat modifiers there for that skill.
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted April 06, 2008 10:34 PM |
|
|
Dammit 
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
|
|
posted April 07, 2008 02:41 AM |
|
Edited by Jinxer at 03:01, 07 Apr 2008.
|
hmmm... maybe I am missing something.. but every time I have flaming balista my opponent just destroys my balista usually after it only got 1 shot and alot of times before it gets to shoot... So why are some players letting the balista stay intact for 3+ rounds and letting it destroy there army? Ofcourse as I say.. I am sure I am missing an obvious here ... but had to ask.
I was under the impression that the big complaint with flaming arrows was because of the unrealistic creeping ability it gave...
Heck can spend all game gaining all the skills for it and then 1 shot and poof balista and gone and you have several wasted skill/perk slots.
I think the ORIGINAL plan of making it harder to get until LATER in game so as to reduce its creeping effectiveness is the way to go....
I guess part of my concern is... that TOTE has MANY MANY game imbalances... and for example.. just as I understand Valkys frustration with sitting there watching a balista erase your army while you are sitting there feeling helpless... how is that any different then watching Dungeon hit and run you and erase your army while you can do nothing... OR watching Acadamy Double rez 2 stacks at a time with MOTW while you can only rez 1 stack at a time. Or seeing sylvans arcane archers which are actually stronger then balista.. the list goes on...
____________
|
|
Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
|
|
posted April 07, 2008 06:30 AM |
|
|
I agree with a lot of what Jinxer said. Heck a lot of things affect creeping effectiveness. MotW, Stalker invis, ect. Sure, some factions have the advantage in early game, some in mid game, and some in late game. Overall tho, it's actually pretty balanced.
Heck even if two players take the same town (lets say haven) then it is difficult to get a even game. Yes, somethings need improved, but instead of reducing things, maybe we should concentrate on improving other things to balance it 
____________
Message received.
|
|
valkyrica
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted April 07, 2008 09:20 AM |
|
|
Quote:
hmmm... maybe I am missing something.. but every time I have flaming balista my opponent just destroys my balista usually after it only got 1 shot and alot of times before it gets to shoot... So why are some players letting the balista stay intact for 3+ rounds and letting it destroy there army? Ofcourse as I say.. I am sure I am missing an obvious here ... but had to ask.
Well, if you'll play medium-sized maps against barbarians that choose haggash as their starting hero, you'll see what I mean 
For the orc, there's an easy solution, switch haggash's starting skills to something else, then he'll have a harder time getting FA.
____________
I'm Guybrush Threepwood, mighty pirate
|
|
Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
|
|
posted April 07, 2008 09:25 AM |
|
|
Hehe if you play against inferno or stronghold and don't take out their balista first round..then you get what ya deserve. . There are several ways to take it down, it is much more for creeping then final fight. Which means that it is points that are useless in the final fight (for the most part).
Puppet master (make one of the enemies units do the hard work for you), MoTW, Empowered Spells, Cold Death, Even remote control in some circumstances. There are many ways of taking it down and making it a non-threat.
____________
Message received.
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted April 07, 2008 09:37 AM |
|
|
Haggash's starting skills are fine, many are close to flaming arrows anyway.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
the_teacher
Supreme Hero
Talk to the hand!
|
|
posted April 07, 2008 01:20 PM |
|
|
in theory, there are a lot more approches possible, but practically, on small/medium maps ballista in orcs hand provides the biggest advantage possible.
how could u kill it one shot as u pretend, when u barely gather 30 archers? or in some cases not even a real shooter, somewhere like week 3? when ballista makes more damage than all creatures on the battlefield together, here the biggest creatures hits are like 3-400 damage top? before u even dream to make 1100 damage ON A SINGLE TARGET with some range attack , by that time SP being pretty low to count, your entire army can watch the fight from the sky.
ofc , in maps when u manage to gather 30 dragons, balista doenst represent a big threat, tho it makes u advance faster, lets say enemy will compensate with spells in later game, but for other cases , in a 3, even 4, weeks games, its a winner and its a bit "unfunny".
|
|
samiekl
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted April 07, 2008 02:31 PM |
|
|
|
Destruction with cold death or light with divine vengeance takes care of it.
|
|
the_teacher
Supreme Hero
Talk to the hand!
|
|
posted April 07, 2008 03:43 PM |
|
|
si daca baba avea roate, se numea autobaba...
yeah, and if a meteor will hit the earth...c'mon im talking about things in general, not a particular situation like 1 in 50
|
|
samiekl
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted April 07, 2008 03:54 PM |
|
Edited by samiekl at 15:58, 07 Apr 2008.
|
Haven... dark magic or own ballista.
Inferno... dark magic or own ballista or destruction + cold death.
Necro... dark magic.
Fortress... destruction + cold death.
Dungeon... destruction + cold death.
Academy... gremlins or destruction + cold death.
Sylvan... destruction + cold death.
Its real, not 1 from 50. Anybody can get that easy. its only that... not many haven players go for dark, or inferno and sylvan for destruction,etc
In general, if i know my opponent will go for flaming ballista i would try to counter it
|
|
insatiable
Supreme Hero
Ultimate N00bidity
|
|
posted April 07, 2008 03:57 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Anybody can get that easy
sami you have tendency of flipping out of the main idea.. read valky 1st post again
i think idea is to make machinery NOT mandatory to have each freaking game
____________
|
|
samiekl
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted April 07, 2008 04:02 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
Anybody can get that easy
sami you have tendency of flipping out of the main idea.. read valky 1st post again
i think idea is to make machinery NOT mandatory to have each freaking game
Valky said he lost 5 games to it. What am i missing here? Why is it mandatory to have it every game? Orcs can creep very good without it...
|
|
|
|
