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| Thread: Advice on rushing | |
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meph
Adventuring Hero
Rampaging Rampart
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posted May 04, 2008 05:06 PM |
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Edited by meph at 17:10, 04 May 2008.
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Advice on rushing
I'm not an experienced multiplayer player, but I enjoy games with friends a lot. However, we tend to build to the Capitol first, and from there out build our creature dwellings.
What I wonder is how people can build their dwellings first, and then still have enough gold to afford their creatures and not being left without cash. I can understand how that would work for Fortress (Wyverns and Dragonflies), but for other castles, I don't see how it works, particulary not on the higher difficulties.
So how do you get everything so fast? Should I buy more heroes as the 3 I usually have running around? Or are there other tricks to the trade, so to speak?
Also, in case it helps, we never play with Necropolis or Conflux, and always on huge maps. Generally speaking, I pick from in between Rampart, Fortress and Inferno, with my pals often favoring Castle, Rampart or Dungeon, with one of them having Stronghold a lot.
Thanks in advance for any help.
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mamgaeater
Legendary Hero
Shroud, Flying, Trample, Haste
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posted May 04, 2008 09:40 PM |
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most of them are quite skilled at taking 'banks' up to week two and this often supplies the gold nessesary. and most multiplayer matches are played on moderate (cpu plays to best) check this thread out for help and links to other informative threads http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=13673
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Protection From Everything.
dota
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Gurnisson
Known Hero
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posted May 04, 2008 09:45 PM |
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I'm usually buying one or two creature dwelling in the start so I can take some fights and get mines, chests, resources, towns etc.(Depending on which town I am).
If you don't get one or two creature dwellings in the start, then there are many fights you will not be able to take(Too weak army). From these fights you can perhaps get a gold mine, chests, piles of gold etc. which you can use to buy capitol afterwards.
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dimis
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Digitally signed by FoG
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posted May 04, 2008 10:26 PM |
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Quote:
I'm usually buying one or two creature dwelling in the start so I can take some fights and get mines, chests, resources, towns etc.(Depending on which town I am).
If you don't get one or two creature dwellings in the start, then there are many fights you will not be able to take(Too weak army). From these fights you can perhaps get a gold mine, chests, piles of gold etc. which you can use to buy capitol afterwards.
Afterwards meaning after the beginning of week 3, and usually by that time it's useless.
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The empty set
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Gurnisson
Known Hero
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posted May 04, 2008 10:31 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
I'm usually buying one or two creature dwelling in the start so I can take some fights and get mines, chests, resources, towns etc.(Depending on which town I am).
If you don't get one or two creature dwellings in the start, then there are many fights you will not be able to take(Too weak army). From these fights you can perhaps get a gold mine, chests, piles of gold etc. which you can use to buy capitol afterwards.
Afterwards meaning after the beginning of week 3, and usually by that time it's useless.
Nope, not that late. In the middle of week 2 or something like that.
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dimis
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Digitally signed by FoG
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posted May 05, 2008 12:08 AM |
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no
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The empty set
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liophy
Famous Hero
Bulgarian
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posted May 05, 2008 12:11 AM |
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On some templates you build capitol, on other you dont. It depends on how long you expect the game to last. You need at least a week after the capitol pays of. So if you build it toward the end of week 2, you need a game that last at least 4 weeks.
Such games could be on templates like Blockbuster, Extreme, 8xm8, Marathon.
If you play templates like Jebus, Balance, Skirmish - you dont build capitol at all.
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dimis
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Digitally signed by FoG
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posted May 05, 2008 01:20 AM |
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Edited by dimis at 01:24, 05 May 2008.
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Still, for some towns the days are not enough. e.g. Rampart. That's why I say beginning of week 3. Of course I can agree on day 7 of week 2 if no dragons week 2 - but that sucks, but not earlier just like it is suggested by Gurnisson. If you build it day w2d6, then this means no Mage guild at all in your main town no Mage Guild on time probably, so your hero should get his book from another town, and ... this will come along with price somewhere else in the game. So, still, week 3, is the safe answer I guess; especially if you want to motivate a player whose strategy at the moment is "Go for capitol!" 
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The empty set
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dimis
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Digitally signed by FoG
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posted May 05, 2008 01:31 AM |
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Quote:
Should I buy more heroes as the 3 I usually have running around?
Yes. The more heroes you have the faster you advance, because you gather resources from the map and moreover, you don't have to make all the fights with your main. All those peripheral guys can be placed in a "line", transfer troops and within the same day make multiple fights across a big portion of the entire map. After some point you shouldn't over-do it though, because you have to keep some experience for your main as well. You still need to develop that guy; not just get gold and resources from the map.
Quote:
Or are there other tricks to the trade, so to speak?
Search for posts in the flavor of what mamgaeater suggested. I am too lazy, atm to search and place direct links. 
Do you guys play random maps, or fixed maps?
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The empty set
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fank0
Known Hero
There are no limits
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posted May 05, 2008 07:39 AM |
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On randoms you need at least 5 heroes day 1 to secure proper map exploring and chaining. Recently i noticed that on most templates I often have six heroes day 1 , possibly 7 by the end of the week.
Two or three of them are mostly exploring the map , searching for interesting locations for the other heroes to visit. It is a good idea to have heroes moving in front of main , opening the map, thus helping you to make accurate plans for your next turns instead of going blind into the shroud.
The other 3-4 heroes constantly switch army to fight as much as possibly , providing gold , resources and artefacts. Important early in the game is to pick your fights carefully - e.g. lots archers guarding a campfire and a wood pile. This fight is doable but you will lose some army. Wait until day 5 or 6 , when you will have 2 unicorns with rampart, one behemot with stronghold , 2 cavaliers/ a angel with castle and so on and fight them then with no loses. With most towns you can afford to split your army at least into two parts - for example if playing rampart main and company running with cents and elves while some other hero fight with unicorns and if needed some other fodder to help. The hero with unicorns fights all those small or distant battles which you do not really want to do with your main for logistic issues. He is followed by another hero, collecting the profit and keeping the extra creatures which the hero fighting with unicorns may need occasionally.
Fight blocks between zones as fast as possible. Taking the extra towns early provides you with a mage guild and spell book and building town halls early means they will pay off quickly and then begin to bring you profit. Also , try to get at least two marketplaces before starting to exchange resources - preferably three. Also , new areas hold important mines , money buildings and other stuff.
Get tactics and/or earth magic ASAP - greatly improves your ability to fight against the map. Expert tactics and 7 + speed creatures allow you to fight shooters you would normally bypass for a week or so. You can also lure a speed advantaged enemy to attack instead of outwaiting you. For example you have to fight 4 stacks of 10 royal griffins each with stronghold day 5 or 6. You place your behemoth so that stack one can hit it , your rocs on a hex two where the another stack of griffins can hit them right away and single goblins to be hit by the other two stacks. The first stack of griffins will prolly die by the retal of the behemoths and the attack of the rocs, the second one by the rocs' retal and behe attack, while the goblins will significantly lower the number in stack three. Then on round three the remaining 10 griffins or so attack your goblins and die after that. This fight is also doable with the behemoth and some fodder only but with a barbarian hero , low on defense, you risk to lose the behemoth if the griffins morale a lot. It is also possible to lose a roc round two so you may not bring them in , prefering to lose some more goblins instead.
Do not go for capitol. The gold is on the map - fight for it. The more gold you spend on creatures the more gold you will be able to take from map locations. Also , a strong fighting army levels your hero pretty fast and helps you to explore the map at a good rate.
By the time your opponent builds his capitol - mid week 2 at best , you will be miles ahead in the game. His capitol starts to pay off early week 3, by which point you will have a strong army and a skilled hero (possibly some angels/wyverns form cons and hives) , able to fight almost anything on the map. So , mid week 3 you find him and the game is pretty much over. Extremely bad maps can prevent you from doing so but normally this is the way to go.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted May 05, 2008 09:30 AM |
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Edited by angelito at 09:31, 05 May 2008.
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The biggest "mistake" most of the players who want to go for capitol instead of dwellings do, is the arguement "but I will never have the money to buy all the troops from the dwellings, so why build them at all?".
There is no need to buy ALL troops. You just need those level 6 or level 7 unit(s) to make most of the fights. There is no need to have level 1, level 2, level 3, level 4, level 5, level 6 and level 7 units in your army to fight a full dwarven treasury (7500 gold), a full crypt (5000 gold) or any other map location. Same goes for external dwellings. No need to bring all your army just to fight an external level 7 dwelling.
Learn to fight with a few strong monsters, and maybe a hand full of level 1 fodder army (which is NOT only for taking the retail, but much more important for lurking the monsters into different locations on the battlefield!).
Most of the time (depending on difficulty u play), you won't be able to build your level 7 dwelling week 1 (except stronghold maybe), so u have to learn how to fight with 4/5 level 6 units (cavaliers, unicorns, wyverns, nagas, efreetis, manticores) or several level 5 units (rocs/tbirds).
As Fank0 already stated, those fights are important to minimize your losses, but this army is strong enough to take out the locations I mentioned. And this is what brings the money. You have to pay between 3000 and 6000 gold for those creatures, but they will pay back pretty early.
And the other dwellings you have built are not that important at early stage, you will just be able to buy them later when u ahve enough money. But they are present from early stage on, while u would have lesser army to buy if you would go for capitol and buy dwellings later.
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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maretti
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted May 05, 2008 01:36 PM |
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@Dimis: Town hall, elfs, pegasis, marked, guild, blacksmith, city hall, citadel, castle, capitol. Thats week 2 day 3.
I cant recommend splitting the army in 2. Cause what do you do when you face something that only your full army can handle? Or you face some shooters where you need your unicorns? Besides that your turns will get so long that your opponent will go crazy. That ofcourse could be a tactic in itself. Keep your army together and chain a bit more with the 2 heroes you free.
About that example with 40 royal griffins: Bringing 1 behemoth and some fodder is not a good idea. Its likely you will need a load. And you should bring your rocs to such a battle. Its up to yourself if you will lose one, cause as long as there are goblins to hit, the griffs wont attack the rocs.
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Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck
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meph
Adventuring Hero
Rampaging Rampart
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posted May 05, 2008 04:41 PM |
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Thanks for the explanations, I'll be doing some testing against AI controlled opponents first using these tactics before taking it to the multiplayer games.
It does leave a question though; what's this with templates? Or am I asking a dumb question here?
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dimis
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Digitally signed by FoG
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posted May 05, 2008 07:39 PM |
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Edited by dimis at 19:41, 05 May 2008.
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Quote:
@Dimis: Town hall, elfs, pegasis, marked, guild, blacksmith, city hall, citadel, castle, capitol. Thats week 2 day 3.
Yes, and no unicorns until w2d4 ... Not to mention not upgraded elves ... No castle week 1 ... etc
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The empty set
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umms
Tavern Dweller
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posted May 05, 2008 08:27 PM |
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I like to play allied maps againts ai in impossible difficulty in some modified scenarios. If it is rich map with good luck you can get 2 heroes day1. My strategy is to always prioritize the dwellings first and always when the time is right go a little bit towards the capitol. It takes 5 days for the capitol to pay off and I can't think of not buying it. But i guess it depends on the map you are playing and difficulty. If I played on hard or expert then yeah probably I wouldn't buy the capitol at all. Ok, I don't really know what was the information content in this reply so never mind me.
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fank0
Known Hero
There are no limits
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posted May 06, 2008 06:22 AM |
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Edited by angelito at 11:09, 06 May 2008.
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Quote:
I cant recommend splitting the army in 2. Cause what do you do when you face something that only your full army can handle? Or you face some shooters where you need your unicorns? Besides that your turns will get so long that your opponent will go crazy. That ofcourse could be a tactic in itself. Keep your army together and chain a bit more with the 2 heroes you free.
Well, you will chain those two unicorns to main or just postpone the fight for a day or two.
Quote:
About that example with 40 royal griffins: Bringing 1 behemoth and some fodder is not a good idea. Its likely you will need a load. And you should bring your rocs to such a battle. Its up to yourself if you will lose one, cause as long as there are goblins to hit, the griffs wont attack the rocs.
The griffins can attack the rocs because they are the stack that deals less dmg. And one behemoth and some goblins can do the fight imo , just a matter of how well you can play it.
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ruho
Hired Hero
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posted May 09, 2008 11:40 AM |
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Meph wrote:
Thanks for the explanations, I'll be doing some testing against AI controlled opponents first using these tactics before taking it to the multiplayer games.
It does leave a question though; what's this with templates? Or am I asking a dumb question here?
Template is the guidelines for a certain type of random map. The random map generator, RMG, doesn't just put objects completely randomly on the map when forming one but generates the map following a given template. Random maps generated by the same template have always pretty much the same characteristics, for example richness (for given zones), number of zones (a zone is a area with certain terrain surrounded by mountains, trees or water having only few ways out of it), how bad the blocks are and so on. Different templates can have very different characteristics. That's way people may refer to a certain template when discussing strategies; it may not be the best way in other template.
The original RMG has several different templates and thus creates different kinds of random maps. These templates can be identified by pressing 'I' for map instructions. For example 2sm4d(3) and 8MM6 are names of 2 original templates and can be found from map instructions if you happen to be playing that kind of random map.
People have learnt to isolate these different original templates and make new ones. Player-made-templates or certain original templates are preferred to the original mix of templates because most of them sucked.
To play maps made by a particular template, you simply need to download the template and save it to your Data-folder in Heroes3-folder as Rmg.rxt (Rmg if extension hidden). Templates can be found from [url=http://randommaps.siteburg.com/]WCL-homesite[/url] -> Downloads -> Maps -> Random Templates.
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