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| Thread: Guidance |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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klazier
Tavern Dweller
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posted June 29, 2008 02:47 PM |
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Guidance
Hey.
I really like to play as Fortress when playing against my friends. I have read alot of topics, but I need your help concerning Fortress anyway. I've got alot of questions for you 
1) On what maps I should play Fortress on?
2) On resource poor maps, what buildings and in what order I should build them? What about on resource rich maps?
3) What hero on what map I should play?
4) Fortress is a rush town? I mean, I need to hunt for artifacts with it as fast as I can?
5) How I can hunt for hives? How does it work? Where can I find them, 'coz when I play as Fortress, I never seen hives near me. If I kill all flies in there and get the wyvrens, is it repeatable like once a week or only 1 time in the whole game?
6) How much scouts I usually need?
7) I know Fortress units are weak, so how can I use them properly?
8) What secondary skills I should learn? What are the "ultimate" secondary skills for fortress heroes?
9) Are there any tactics I need to know how to use with Fortress?
10) If I create a random map, how can I make so that hives are near my town?
11) What are random map templates (or something like that)?
Thanks!
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del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
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posted June 29, 2008 05:30 PM |
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Quote:
7) I know Fortress units are weak, so how can I use them properly?
You are playing RoE rigth? With Gorgons and Dragonflyes i cannot even image the word weak.
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klazier
Tavern Dweller
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posted June 29, 2008 05:48 PM |
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I'm playing SoA. Yes, I do have MG's and DF's.
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Gazolin4
Known Hero
God bless us. Even atheists!
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posted June 29, 2008 07:42 PM |
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SoA? Did you mean SoD (Shadow of Death)
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maygwan
Tavern Dweller
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posted June 29, 2008 08:26 PM |
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Fortress is probably one of the best factions to use. the only downfall i know to fortress is that the level 7 creature aka hydra's are not the best lv7 creatures in some aspects. Of course attacking 3 monster stacks at once is a bonus but you rarely get to do that.
there is a map editor that comes with sod if you make a random map you can add hives to it where you like and so on.
As for tactics and what you should buy first this really depends on the map size,difficulty and the map in general.
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klazier
Tavern Dweller
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posted June 30, 2008 10:19 AM |
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Yes, SoD, I'm sorry  What about other steps? Like, what secondary skills to learn and etc.?
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Skeleton_King
Disgraceful
Famous Hero
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posted June 30, 2008 11:23 AM |
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Quote:
Hey.
I know Fortress units are weak, so how can I use them properly?
What?! They're not weak, they can weaken the enemy. they have good units and a very good might hero,the Beastmaster.
Fortress RULZ!
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maygwan
Tavern Dweller
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posted June 30, 2008 11:43 AM |
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Secondary skills again depend on the player. Some players prefer certain secondary skills example if you like playing as a might hero then you would go for something like.
armor
offense
tactics
archery
wisdom
earth magic
logistics(always a must)
resistance
ballistics,artillery-air water-leadership would also be choices.
Magic users would take a different route but all skills depend on the hero that you use or the hero you pick to be your main hero on the map or campaign that you are playing..
EXAMPLE-Adrienne fortress witch special ability is fire magic she starts with wisdom and fire so she would be your magic hero therefore you want to teach her secondary skills that will help her one being sorcery. Expert sorcery and expert fire = one bad ass inferno spell.
other skills magic heroes will learn are intelligence or mysticism.
Secondary skills are totally dependent on maps and map sizes if you play a large map then path finding and logistics and scouting are all important.
You then move to heroes and choices this can make a huge difference on winning or losing a map. For example bron(I'm assuming you want to use heroes based on your faction) bron starts with special ability basilisks a lv4 creature which also when recruiting him from a tavern he comes with a few in his army this on an early stage is great to clear those better defended mines.
BeastMasters on a whole are great castle defenders as BeastMasters are the best, with 45% of their advancements going into Defense Skill.Defending a castle with a few small stacks and archer towers against smaller armies.
There are many different tactics to use thats the beauty of homm3 another example gerwulf special ability is ballista so if you recruit him he comes with a ballista now recruiting is 2500 and a ballista is 2500 so you get a ballista and some free troops and a scout for less money.
Another example are moneymaker's you don't have to play with same hero to the faction you choose Caitlin, Clavius, Octavia, Nagash, Damacon, Jenova, Aine are moneymakers (all get +350/day) ie just having them in your army means an extra 350 a day in gold, 2450 a week income meaning by recruiting anyone of them after the first week you have the gold back you spent and then you gain an extra 350 a day until they are killed.
Having the correct monsters on the correct hero helps too, a lot of players make 1 hero throw best creatures on him/her and away they go. But intelligent players give creatures to the right heroes:-
eg:-
wystan spec lizardmen
korbac spec serpent flies
so having those heroes with stacks of the right creatures give the creatures added bonuses per level.
I've wrote enough lol hope it helps
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liophy
Famous Hero
Bulgarian
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posted June 30, 2008 02:53 PM |
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Very important information is on what map or template of random map do you play. Poor or rich map is not enough to explain the map. Offcourse - the size of the map and the settings.
Other information is on what rules did you agree to play. No rules whatsoever is very rare.
After you give this information there can be more precise advices.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted June 30, 2008 03:29 PM |
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Edited by angelito at 15:33, 30 Jun 2008.
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Quote:
1) On what maps I should play Fortress on?
On any, but fortress' chances are better on non-XL maps, coz the more time other towns like Dungeon, Tower or Rampart have, the stronger they get due to their level 7 units (which are built later than hydras normaly)
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2) On resource poor maps, what buildings and in what order I should build them? What about on resource rich maps?
Try to build as many creature dwellings as possible, preferable level 7 as early as possible.
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3) What hero on what map I should play?
Tazar on any.
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4) Fortress is a rush town? I mean, I need to hunt for artifacts with it as fast as I can?
Hunting for artefacts is not related to a town. You should try to hunt for any goodies with every town.
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5) How I can hunt for hives? How does it work? Where can I find them, 'coz when I play as Fortress, I never seen hives near me. If I kill all flies in there and get the wyvrens, is it repeatable like once a week or only 1 time in the whole game?
Hives are placed on the map like any other "treasury". In some areas u find more, in others less. Once u have visited them and recieved reward, they stay empty.
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6) How much scouts I usually need?
As much as you can afford. The more heroes u have, the more fights u can do (chaining army from 1 hero to the other), the more collectors you have, and the faster you can scout your area8s) and reveal interesting locations.
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7) I know Fortress units are weak, so how can I use them properly?
Weak?...hmmm...you didn't detect the whole strength of fortress yet, did you?..
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8) What secondary skills I should learn? What are the "ultimate" secondary skills for fortress heroes?
armorer, offense, logistics, air, earth, tactics are a must. The 2 additional skills depend on the map. Pathfinding may be good for fortress, so you could use angels from conservatories without penalty for example. Don't take archery, coz lizzards are too weak to waste a whole slot just for them. Also forget about skills like leadership and luck. Both skills are limited to +3 and this can be done by small artefacts or map locations. If you have many towns and or many pandora's boxes around, you could think about taking wisdom to be able to learn high level spells. With tomes or scrolls, you wouldn't need wisdom to be able to cast them though....
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9) Are there any tactics I need to know how to use with Fortress?
Use the big potential of the hydras (chaos hydras) to your advantage. Use flies for early blocking shooters. Save the gorgons for endfight or hugh fights (vs a bunch of level 7 creeps for example), coz it would be a pitty to lose those killers vs low level units. Wyverns can be nasty early on...build them as soon as possible.
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10) If I create a random map, how can I make so that hives are near my town?
Won't be that easy. You need deeper knowledge about creating/editing a template.
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11) What are random map templates (or something like that)?
Something like a "matrix" or a "basic plan" for a random map.
____________
Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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klazier
Tavern Dweller
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posted June 30, 2008 08:09 PM |
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Edited by klazier at 20:10, 30 Jun 2008.
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Thanks guys, that was alot of useful information. There are still some questions I've to ask
1) How do you chain army correctly?
2) How much scouts do you usually have on S maps, what about M, L and XL?
3) Some one told that I shouldn't have all my monsters on my main hero, why? I thought that way my main hero will grow faster in lvls, since scouts don't do fights almoste at all, or do they?
(((4))) So could you explain more about scouting and using my monsters and heroes correctly to gain advantage over everyone else in the beginning?
EDIT: 5) Also, what about Ballistics and/or Archillery as secondary skills, say, for Tazar?
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Plague
Known Hero
Only Hell know my pain
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posted June 30, 2008 09:46 PM |
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I didnt had time to read all that question,but i will tell how i play with fortress,maybe will help a litle.I play with alkin(i think is his name,the one with gorgon especiality).
Skills:
-Ofence
-Armour
-Logistic or Pathfinder
-Water magic(mass bless),or Earth Magic(mass slow),or air magic(mass haste)
-Catapult(u need for siege)
-Luck(never underastimate this skill)
-Tactics(u need it cause hydra,gorgon,basilik dont have so big speed like dragon fly and wyrms)
-Resitence(if your enemy is a spell caster u will need it)
-Leadership(how do i forgot about this one?leadership combined with luck are 2 deadly skills)
Army:
-all creature are goods
1)Gnolls are not weak and u can gather many of them form begining,if u know to keep units alives
2)Lizzard man are the only ones shooters from your army,but again u can gather many of them
3)Dragon Fly,well there is no need to talk,all we know,this units are greats ones
4)Basilisk use them wisly,u may have chance to gaz stone enemy.
5)Mighty Gorgons,well this are my favortits units from fortress,and under alkin comand,those creatures are kiling machines(damn i love their ability,death stare)
6)Wyvern those are good units,not so powerfull,but if u have enough wood u can get them fast,and gathering a great noumber of them would be an advantage
7)Hydra,these ones are very very strongs(no enemy relatation,atack all enemy nearby),with tactics u wont wory about theirs speed,and with combined leadership and luck,u can kill easy enemy units.
Remember u must have atleast one of those buff(mass haste,or slow or bless).
In this way i play fortress.I hope i helped u with something.
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The biggest evil that you can do is to do nothing.
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MrCash
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 30, 2008 10:44 PM |
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9) Are there any tactics I need to know how to use with Fortress?
Tactics is everything with fortress. Fortresse's creatures tend to be rather flimsy but its their specials that can make up for it.
As mentioned above, mighty gorgons should only be used on lvl 7 creatures.
Dragon flies can get to a shooter on turn one (sometimes only wth haste.
Lizard men are a neccesary tool...they're your only shooters.
Also remember that your moat is twice the size of regular moats, so any walkers coming into your town arent gonna be too much of a threat.
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Skeleton_King
Disgraceful
Famous Hero
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posted July 01, 2008 12:13 PM |
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Quote:
As mentioned above, mighty gorgons should only be used on lvl 7 creatures.
yeah, they're gaze is cool
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Dragon flies can get to a shooter on turn one (sometimes only wth haste.
no, no, no, in online games, is not so important to do that. u must wait to your first spell of your enemy, because he will cast something like that: mass haste, slow bless or curse. and, when will be your dragon flies turns, u will cast the opuse. mass bless = mass curse, etc. and, u will have double strike because u will atack in the first round, and u will be the first in the second
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Lizard men are a neccesary tool...they're your only shooters.
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Also remember that your moat is twice the size of regular moats, so any walkers coming into your town arent gonna be too much of a threat.
yeah, fortress is pure defense, the best hero is tazar, for it's defense skill. i like fortress, because they simply,
RULZ!!!
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klazier
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 01, 2008 06:57 PM |
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Hey thanks! Man, I always got pissed coz my bro plays as necro and he farms skellies and I don\t know nothing about good fortress strategies, but now I do >D. But back to my new questions.
Thanks guys, that was alot of useful information. There are still some questions I've to ask
1) How do you chain army correctly?
2) How much scouts do you usually have on S maps, what about M, L and XL?
3) Some one told that I shouldn't have all my monsters on my main hero, why? I thought that way my main hero will grow faster in lvls, since scouts don't do fights almoste at all, or do they?
(((4))) So could you explain more about scouting and using my monsters and heroes correctly to gain advantage over everyone else in the beginning?
EDIT: 5) Also, what about Ballistics and/or Archillery as secondary skills, say, for Tazar?
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Plague
Known Hero
Only Hell know my pain
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posted July 01, 2008 08:27 PM |
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Tazar hav armour speciality,but u beter play with a beastmaster with a creature speciality.Try alkin and the skills that i told to you.
When u start u will have Alkin,but buy another hero and transfer all the army on Alkin,keep the army on alkin,and buy gnools that u have in start.U will gain almost 100 gnolls and some lizards.Then will be easy to kill easy creeps,and creeps that guard mines.Do first build town hall,then to fast city hall and start to build dweling creature building.After u build 4-5 try to do castle for creature growing and then do capitol.
Remember keep the army on Alkin,u will need logistic or pathfinder.With other hero that u will in start use him to discover the map.THe map discovered cant be covered,but only from that undead build,clould or whatever is named,but in a small area.
Relax dude,maybe he will have some skelets,but if u atack them in start with a strong creature u will destroy them,but dont think do destroy the skelets first.U will start firs cause your dragon fly have great speed.Before moving them cast mass haste or mass slow,depend on what do u have,i dont think he will make water magic to use mass cure,the undeads never use water magic,it is not normal from them.THen atack with dragon flys his lichs and with hydra his vampire(cause hydra are stronger and have no enemy relatation,but try to hit more then an unit),u need to kill his vampire from start.With monarh try to kill slekets or wraiths,but take care of his dread knights cause those are very dangerous.Would be graet if u could hit with hydra vampire and dread in same time.
BTw with which hero does your bro playing?i belive with a necromancer with necromancy speciality if u tell me that he like to rise skeletal hordes.
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The biggest evil that you can do is to do nothing.
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Ruho
Hired Hero
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posted July 01, 2008 09:57 PM |
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Edited by Ruho at 22:01, 01 Jul 2008.
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Quote:
1) How do you chain army correctly?
Chaining basicly means transporting your army through various heroes within the same day. When holding the army those heroes can make some fights or simply just pass it to the next hero, who can do some fights or pass the army to next hero and so on... This method makes you clean the map much faster. See 4) for more...
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2) How much scouts do you usually have on S maps, what about M, L and XL?
It depends more on the richness of the map than on the size. On medium rich maps (like random Balance or Panic) you usually have like 5-6 heroes 1st week and 8 on the second week, but on richer maps (like random Jebus Cross, or fixed maps) you'll wanna get 8 heroes week1 or even more. Oh, people usually use L- or XL-sized random maps when playing versus human opponent, on fixed maps M-size is used too.
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3) Some one told that I shouldn't have all my monsters on my main hero, why? I thought that way my main hero will grow faster in lvls, since scouts don't do fights almoste at all, or do they?
That could be for many reasons...
1. You don't want to have slow units with your main (or with most of your scouts) at the end of the turn because you'll gain extra movement depending on the speed of the slowest unit in your army.
2. You don't want to buy every unit you can asap, because you don't need all of them to fight the map and you need that gold for buildings. With Fortress for example you don't usually need Gorgons or Basilisks within first two weeks.
3. Sometimes it's wise to split your army to be able to clean different distant areas simultaneously. For example you could be cleaning your starting area from the banks week2 with your Fortress army and you could have other hero(es) cleaning easy fights from next area with an Angel (from Conservatory).
4. Usually you try to avoid carrying unnecessary non-native troops on swamp, snow and rough terrains.
Mainly you'll have the army with your main hero at least on some part of the turn 'cos like you said, you'll need to level him as fast as possible AND usually at the end of the turn you'll have a scout take that army and give it back at the beginning of the next turn.
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EDIT: 5) Also, what about Ballistics and/or Archillery as secondary skills, say, for Tazar?
Ballistics isn't really needed for any hero, at least when playing versus human opponent. Artillery can be useful sometimes but not for Beastmaster (low attack skill). Forget also those Luck and Leadership someone mentioned.
Oh, in case you didn't know, you won't get any penalty for using non-native hero with any town, so you can safely use other good heroes like Barbarians with Fortress. But Beastmasters are very good too.
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(((4))) So could you explain more about scouting and using my monsters and heroes correctly to gain advantage over everyone else in the beginning?
How to clean map effectively?
This is vast and very important part of the game and pretty hard to describe simply and properly, but I try to give some help for you to see the big picture.
You need to scout the map fast so you'll see what it looks like: what are the important locations in your area, how rich it is, how vast it is, what are the blocks to next area and so on. When you have some kind of idea of how the map looks like you can start planning how to drain it effectively: what do you need to take from the map and how to move your heroes to do so that is. For making effective and realistic plans it's necessary to know what fights you can can do and when, like "Pack of Orcs" -> easy fight 1st week once you get the Wyverns, "Lots of Walking Dead" -> easy fight day1. This knowledge is simply learned through experience. You should also learn to know what are the important locations or objects on the map. This varies much depending on the richness of the map: on Jebus visiting arena week2 would be prolly waste of time if it takes like whole turn but on poorer map it could be a wise move.
When you are planning how to drain the map effectively you need to take care of two things.
1. What is the most optimal route for my main to level him as quickly as possible and to do other important fight your scouts can't handle.
2. What resources or other usefull map objects/locations do I need to take (usually most  ) with other heroes to afford build my town as well as possible and getting other benefits.
Keeping these two things in view you make a goal and then you try to achieve that goal. This "goal" changes all the time as you reveal more areas by scouting and especially as you fighting potential improves (most optimal routes change).
Chaining makes you able to do much more fights per day and thus clear the map much faster. I've already described what the term means but to get a better picture visit [url=http://randommaps.siteburg.com/]WCL[/url] -> The Great Hall and download some saves. I might add that using hero chains (chaining) doesn't mean that you must chain every day but usually you fight with your main hero few days while others are scouting and then you see (have organized) a good chance for a hero chain and you can do plenty of fights with it. Next or same day you return the army to your main and then just rinse & repeat.
Few basic tips:
-Build creature dwellings before money buildings
-Choose might over magic
-Choose cash from chests
-Try to optimize your main hero's (scouts' too) movement points. You can find other threads for more info about that.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted July 02, 2008 08:09 AM |
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Quote:
Tazar hav armour speciality,but u beter play with a beastmaster with a creature speciality.Try alkin and the skills that i told to you.
When u start u will have Alkin,but buy another hero and transfer all the army on Alkin,keep the army on alkin,and buy gnools that u have in start.U will gain almost 100 gnolls and some lizards.Then will be easy to kill easy creeps,and creeps that guard mines.Do first build town hall,then to fast city hall and start to build dweling creature building.After u build 4-5 try to do castle for creature growing and then do capitol.
Remember keep the army on Alkin,u will need logistic or pathfinder.With other hero that u will in start use him to discover the map.THe map discovered cant be covered,but only from that undead build,clould or whatever is named,but in a small area.
Relax dude,maybe he will have some skelets,but if u atack them in start with a strong creature u will destroy them,but dont think do destroy the skelets first.U will start firs cause your dragon fly have great speed.Before moving them cast mass haste or mass slow,depend on what do u have,i dont think he will make water magic to use mass cure,the undeads never use water magic,it is not normal from them.THen atack with dragon flys his lichs and with hydra his vampire(cause hydra are stronger and have no enemy relatation,but try to hit more then an unit),u need to kill his vampire from start.With monarh try to kill slekets or wraiths,but take care of his dread knights cause those are very dangerous.Would be graet if u could hit with hydra vampire and dread in same time.
BTw with which hero does your bro playing?i belive with a necromancer with necromancy speciality if u tell me that he like to rise skeletal hordes.
Please try to get more experience vs good human players before you give advices like this. I don't want to be rude, but your tactics won't lead to any win vs an average online player, not talking about good players....
Many threads here in the library can help you to improve. Search and read...
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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maygwan
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 02, 2008 09:49 AM |
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before you give advices like this. I don't want to be rude, but your tactics won't lead to any win vs an average online player, not talking about good players....
Many threads here in the library can help you to improve. Search and read...
Well said angelito the guy is after advice and although it is useful for
a player to put creatures on a hero with a specialty that will only help early on. tazar is the best beast master as i quoted earlier 45% of a beast masters advancement goes to defense add that to tazar's special being armor aka defense you not only have a bonus to one creature all creatures get the bonus. If you can get tazar you play as him simple as.
One other piece of advice if you want to win games then don't always have the same heroes from the faction you use.
Basic tactics will tell you to get gold week one but you can't always use the mage guild,marketplace,blacksmith to city hall tactic on most maps and where has a castle as the guy quoted helps creature dwelling you don't build it on week one castles are week two depending on resources.Again it always depends on map there is a strategy to each map.
Let me make an explanation-lets say the map is small and you play it vs your brother so you know where his castle is. Most small maps you can probably invade your enemy castle with a weeks movement 2 weeks tops.So day one you buy 3 heroes maybe four they are tazar(main hero) bron(comes with basilisks)and 2 more one being a hero with troops different to your faction.get mage guild day one if you don't start with one as magic arrow is like having extra troops or shield,slow ect always help buy available troops and send tazar towards main enemy castle flagging resources mines dwellings while the other heroes scout pick up loose resources and dwellings.Now if resources allow each day you buy a dwelling and the creatures also more heroes. each new dwelling you buy as creatures to recruit and then once week one is over they are all ready again. Now because you now have a sizable army already the chain takes place. a chain is where you set heroes at different places on the map so you can chain troops to your main hero all in the same movement a bit like passing a box to the person next to you and so on down the line. This means day one of week two you can send all troops to tazar who by now has reached or is close to enemy castle. Once all troops are chained to him he can then assault the enemy castle and hero. Because all this was done week one your enemy castle and hero will have no chance to beat the huge force you have amassed in 7 days.Game over.
Thats only an example if the enemy has built the gold week one his army will be tiny. even if he has built dwellings he may not be in the castle so you take castle and fortify it. he runs you chase.
Again take this as an example there are many different factors you enemy may have same idea and is on his way to you where has you meet in middle with similar armies. He may have already chained some dwellings that his scouts had flagged to his main army or loose stacks that joined on his way.
It is difficult to give advice to someone on how to play a map because each map is different and the people you play against play different strategies and then there are artifacts,spells and so on they may have gotten to first. If the enemy plays necro he may of amassed a formidable skeleton army early on or if he has aislinn who starts with meteor shower which can do massive damage early on. So many different strategies and outcome's the only real strategy here is to continue to play and LEARN!!!!!!
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SAG
Promising
Supreme Hero
WCL owner
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posted July 02, 2008 10:53 AM |
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uff why do noobs like so much to share their wrong ideas? Luck, Ballistics, Leadership...simply lol.
@klazier: currently 2 posts are correct (1 by Angelito and 1 by Ruho). Avoid to trust some recenly registered unknown players. They have no experience in online games and can't tell anything valuable.
Actually, you have following options:
- play singleplayer games vs AI. In this case you will soon find it boring cause AI is simply dumb.
- play hotseat vs human. In this case you will definitely find some fun, humans act differently and may learn from mistakes.
- play 1vs1 online games (regular random maps based on popular random templates). Most popular international server is Gamespy (15.00 - 20.00 GMT). In case if experienced player will agree to play with you - then you will learn from your games and will increase your game level. 80% chance that experienced players will be busy at the moment or will avoid you. If you will play vs other noob then 50% chance of not finishing game and some chance of cheating/breaking rules. So you will really need patience, maybe hours to wait for good player.
- play quick 1vs1 online games on training Arena maps. They take less than 30 minutes and are fun and useful.
- play 2vs2 online games. Join such game only if you will play in pair with veteran (who has good rating in tournaments) and if you will definitely have 8-14 hours of free time.
- examine saves from WCL The great Hall. If you can repeat same moves that players did turn-by-turn - then you will increase your knowledge dramatically.
- study from Library, look into Table of content and QP awarded posts.
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