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| Thread: Dungeon faction magic or melee? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted August 29, 2008 12:59 PM |
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no, it lacks money. dungeon is very powerful there.
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nosfe
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 29, 2008 01:04 PM |
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while swift mind does help i tend to ignore it and take defense if i'm offered it before taking scouting/arcane intuition; defense reduces %damage received so its at its best with low defense factions because the total damage soaked is higher
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted August 29, 2008 01:12 PM |
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I don't know what plenty of time you have to develop there, but here's a matchup dungeon vs haven there.
click
Although you can't use stalker tactics at all (i've never had stalkers only on battlefield during creeping) dungeon is almost unstoppable.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted August 29, 2008 01:20 PM |
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thanks, I'll check the replay, but don't forget that
a) I suck at academy
b) I had no destructive and no good gaming concepts
c) he was better than me
here
See for yourself. I can't remember which week is that, fifth or sixth most likely, my hero wasn't a match for him. Seriously 
I'll check your game, but I don't think it will amaze me (Dungeon vs. Haven was one of my best matchups )
Edit: as for your replay Samiekl, idk, your opponent seemed pretty clueless and his army wasn't that impressive 
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted August 29, 2008 01:36 PM |
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Edited by samiekl at 13:51, 29 Aug 2008.
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Here's what i mean by academy's power to win even when everything seems lost:
click
Btw, i've never EVER went for destruction as academy. Usually light and summoning is enough. Dark is very handy too against certain factions.
Edit: my opponent wasn't clueless (actually he's very good), but that map lacks money (thus you should have won with academy) and his army was very nice for week 5 imo. I got lucky and was offered dungeon.
Edit2: checked your replay, nothing impressive. You usually take only a few angels just to resurrect paladins, instead save money for trainings horses. Second, he lost some army. My opponent entered the battlefield with only horses and had no losses.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted August 29, 2008 01:56 PM |
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I couldn't match swiftminded +65% haste, staff of netherworlds and ring of celerity. Before I could act, it was already over. I did not get phoenix or ressurection on guild, utopia and magic school so I was pretty out of luck, but I don't think they would help me even a tiny bit. I'm honestly out of ideas what went wrong in that game, maybe I was too clumsy in creeping, but I had my 27 knowledge with my whole army artificed (without golems and mages) and it did nothing. He had only 20 paladins but it was enough to own me
I'll check the second replay. As for your former replay, I said "clueless" because I've never seen my mate playing Haven against mages without swiftmind haste (reduces the impact of the hero on the battle). I believe that if he played Maeve instead of Klaus and used it, you'd still win, but it would not be that easy. It seems he tried to make use of training (his big amount of palas seems to prove that), but myself, I think that putting so much effort in training on a map which is not rich enough isn't the best idea. Idk, I always failed when I tried I'd rather try my luck and spend that gold on artifacts that would help me against magic, since there is an artie merchant on that map.
And btw it's easier to prevent loses with one big powerstack boosted by Hero specialization, regeneration and ressurection than with a full army, so that doesn't prove he's actually a better player than my mate. ;p
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted August 29, 2008 02:06 PM |
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You should have rushed him then. You can break 100% on week 4. My last suicide was there as inferno and cleared every single creep by week 4 but suicided at the gate. Was too overconfident to enter battle with only 9 devils and light magic only (no dark). Unicorns blinded me and that was over. Regeneration sucks when you don't get a turn 
So, if i could do it easily as inferno, academy can do it even easier.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted August 29, 2008 02:22 PM |
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Break through such a strong garrison with no phoenix, no ressurection, only summon elementals.. how? With 10 titans and arcane armor?  Not a chance. The garrison ain't AI controlled so I can't abuse the poor AI, even. I crept the whole map and did not get those spells anywhere. Is it that big kind of a gamble? I get two-three important spells-i win-i don't get them - i lose? Aww, I prefer more reliable towns
As for your second replay: Wow, that was nice, great unit positioning by academy, but, again, it begs for swift mind+mass haste, or even cleansing. I guess that poor sylvan guy was just unlucky and did not get any of those, but with arcane intuition you can get at least cleansing from sprites
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted August 29, 2008 02:26 PM |
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Edited by samiekl at 14:27, 29 Aug 2008.
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on art of war there's regeneration and ressurection 100%. ressurection is guarded by angels (or mixed stack with angels in it, don't remember exactly)
Edit: go for fire warriors
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted August 29, 2008 02:29 PM |
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lol I must have skipped that stack. I had no regeneration either, where is it? I don't know that map too well tbh.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted August 29, 2008 02:30 PM |
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I must ask one thing: How the heck did the griffins damage themselves? The same thing happened when I played a duel with Lexxan the other day. And that battle with sylvan reminds me something, I've seen it before.. But can't remember
Reliability with necro and academy is circumstancial You can't really control what you get so you may pay for being unlucky. That's why I prefer maps that are either easier on garrisons - why should you have the must spells to break a freaking garrison anyway? - or are easier to learn spells.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted August 29, 2008 02:34 PM |
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btw guys how about stronghold? it's a bit off topic but they are pretty stable, I guess. Can they break easily on such maps? And what can I do about that freaking frenzy on my cyclopes >_> The last time I played stronghold, my own cyclopes killed my army. I thought I was clever to put a small "safety stack" in between the cyclopes and the rest of my army, but the enemy titans luck-killed the safety stack and I could only watch how frenzy follows (and destroys 70% of my troops lol)
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted August 29, 2008 02:53 PM |
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Put the cyclops stack in one corner and all other army in the other and use that level 5 to haste them and send them fast in the enemy ranks. Stronghold is very powerful on any map.
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Cleave
Promising
Famous Hero
Raging Blood
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posted August 29, 2008 03:26 PM |
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Quote:
it's a bit off topic
No offense but this topic is being hijacked.
Do you guys think an all might Warlock would be viable? I have serious doubt about that because of the lack of numbers.
Furies are awesome for Might Dungeon but they have a tendency to get killed first and it's hard to keep their numbers up during a long game.
Any suggestions?
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13 Heroes
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tann_141
Known Hero
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posted August 29, 2008 07:43 PM |
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its very hard to use dungeon as an all might town... first off.. if you go for an all might build.. all that spellpower is essentially wasted
also dungeon units cant hold a candle to the likes of haven sylvan or stronghold (without spells that is)
another downside to might dungeon is that dragons are VERY hard to get, so they are not often used, and furies and raiders die quite easily... that leaves you with stalkers (or assasins) minotaurs and hydras... and i dont consider these ideal attacking units
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted August 29, 2008 07:49 PM |
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yeah, the worst thing of pure might warlock is all his SP being useless. I'd go for less hardcore might-dark hybrid.. or might-light if you get light magic offered early on a map where you can get light spells.
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MarcusX
Known Hero
*happyface*
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posted August 29, 2008 08:18 PM |
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I totaly agree that an all might dungeon hero would be pretty usless against a haven or any other hero with a full might repitour. another thing you would loose by going all might is the early advantage against neutrals. not a good thing to loose.
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I use big words to make myself
smarter
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Cleave
Promising
Famous Hero
Raging Blood
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posted August 29, 2008 09:02 PM |
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Quote:
or might-light if you get light magic offered early on a map where you can get light spells.
For instance the Tome of Light. It is a good way to keep those furies.
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13 Heroes
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nosfe
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 29, 2008 09:08 PM |
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a better way is to get vitality/ring of vitality/blood sisters with Yrwanna = 25hp blood sisters and with the help of some light magic....
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ChaosDragon
Famous Hero
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posted August 29, 2008 10:18 PM |
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Quote:
No offense but this topic is being hijacked.
Do you guys think an all might Warlock would be viable? I have serious doubt about that because of the lack of numbers.
Furies are awesome for Might Dungeon but they have a tendency to get killed first and it's hard to keep their numbers up during a long game.
Any suggestions?
By full might, do you mean without any magic at all?
If yes, it's bad, like the others said above, especially because the SP and racial skill is a total waste (except elemental vision).
Their low numbers is ok, far more ok than the total waste of racial skills.
I rarely try full might dungeon, but if you want, try Sorgal or Kytra
Full might dungeon badly needs teleport assault, those Foul Hydra and Red dragons do wonder with it. Just watch out for Dark Magic.
And it only shine when you have 50 or more dragons and 150 or more hydras, which is very rarely happens. I've tried full might once in a test match, about 1.5 month ago, againts destructive dungeon, i use sorgal, my opponent's army is very equal with me, his SP is 50++, i forgot his implo dmg, about more than 4k. I just TA ing my foul hydra and red dragon, my red dragon got imploed, but i TA it, it incinerate his blackies, and his blackies are pinned down, next, TA the foul hydra, and it finish most of his troops (except his hydras), then i TA matriarch to the front. Ofc it's not that simple, it takes 5 or more turn, i forgot the sequence, what i remember is TA+foul hydra and TA+red dragons save my day, In the end, i still have 30 matriarch, 50 hydra, 100+ minotaur guard.
I just take sorcery, luck (magic resistance), attack (archery, battle frenzy, tactic), logistic (warpath, TA, pathfinding), enlightment. I was hoping for leadership or defence or war machine to replace sorcery, no luck though, but i still think that sorcery realy help fasten my TA, so clumsy but powerful creature like foul hydra and minotaur guard play more quickly, but i must TA my red dragon first, i didn't have any choice. I will gladly take flame arrow if i have war machine. Forgot to say, my red dragon was hit with lucky empowered implosion + emerald slipper, luckily i have cloak of sylana, and it still hit about 4k+, i forgot its exact dmg.
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