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| Thread: Resources |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted October 17, 2008 04:32 AM |
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Quote:
Does building ships require anything other than wood?
I don't know about in H5, but in H3 ships cost 1000 gold and 10 wood and that's it.
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Daystar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
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posted October 17, 2008 04:37 AM |
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oops, I forgot about gold. I mean would they need any other resources (metal, for making cannons or astrolabes or the lead lining at the bottom that keeps it from tipping over, or crystal/gems to make the glass in the spyglasses or something?)
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How exactly is luck a skill?
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JapanGamer
Known Hero
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posted October 17, 2008 04:40 AM |
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Yeh I guess for NOW I'll ignore him. It's to easy to make him look worse than hes already made himself out to be. I wish there was just one thread where we could battle this out with no worries. One thread.. Killa make one in the VWLs if you have to keep bothering people.
Daystar your right, it would take more than wood to make a ship, wood and gold I mean.. Would take nails and such aswell.
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Pictures of god
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JapanGamer
Known Hero
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posted October 17, 2008 04:47 AM |
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I also thought about why would heroes want a phony boat made out of only wood? Why not Cool stuff like a statue in the front?
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Pictures of god
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Daystar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
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posted October 17, 2008 04:55 AM |
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Edited by Daystar at 04:56, 17 Oct 2008.
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Oh, that reminds me, I need to give the cat her allergy medication. Thanks Bee.
(he he he, he thinks he's vicious. Isn't it cute?)
and yeah, a figurehead on the front would be cool! Perhaps every faciton uses a different extra resource for a different effect? Dwarves = Stone for a figurehead that decreases the morale of attackers, Necro = Mercury for a spell that makes them sail a little faster than other boats*, etc?
*Pirates of the Caribbean...it made sense in my head.
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How exactly is luck a skill?
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted October 17, 2008 06:34 AM |
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Well figureheads are all very well and good, but there's a big problem with including figureheads in the pricing plan and that's a mater of scale, you'd have to be paying in the mid-hundreds in wood before something like a figurehead would actually show up, a bit like pricing a statue into a castle really.
The same would go for the non-wooden bits of a ship, they're so infinitesimally small in comparison to the wood (in terms of volume) that it'd be needlessly complicated to try to include them until you're looking at wood prices of hundreds, maybe even thousands, and since most of the work there is actually 'making' the nail, you could probably chalk it up in the gold cost anyway.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted October 17, 2008 10:00 AM |
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There is one resource you don't seem to have thought about: Mana
Now I know Mana is currently infinite, but what if it wasn't, what if things like Genies and Wights actually needed it for production/upkeep, and other units (Druids, Succubi, etc.) needed it for their attacks?
I think this idea is interesting, although I'm not positive it would benefit the gameplay. My main concern is that you also need to be able to save some of your mana for spells - take the current Hellfire system, for one, which is quite annoying sometimes, where Hellfire triggers at some completely irrelevant time and drains your mana - and there's no option to turn it off!
You could make it so that it consumes mana to recruit the creature (you summon it, basically), but that would be kind of pointless, as your replenish mana when staying in town, although if you just visit and then leave, it could be a minor but still relevant nuisance. A problem occurs when you want to recruit the creature without having a hero in town - is that then impossible?
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Adding more resources is quite interesting, but there is also another matter which could provide some more interesting depth for the game, which is adding handcrafted goods. I suggest a mix of the game Imperialism's economic system with HoMM's. Let me explain:
Resources are produced by buildings on the map; (and rarely by special buildings in the town itself) those resources would be possible to be transformed into materials through the use of a building for processing, and then use another building for processing the materials into finished goods. A simple example would be:
Iron Mine: Adventure map building that produces Iron Ore.
Iron Smelter: Transforms 2xIron Ore into 1xCast Iron.
Ironworks: Transforms 2xCast Iron into either 1xWeapons or 1xTools.
Cast Iron would also be used for construction, and Weapons would be used for creating certain troops; Tools would be used in construction as well.
And so on, but keeping a small number of commodities so as to keep the game simple. Micromanagement wouldn't be much of an issue, as the player would simply set the processing building to produce the amount of goods he wishes per turn, and it would keep doing so until orders change.
Not sure it would actually benefit the game, just throwing ideas around.
Again, I have to say that all these ideas for refining the economic system excite me. For me, all these things point in the same direction, like I said previously: We need more options with the adventure map locations. Mines could be upgraded into smelters, refineries, workshops, you name it, for various benefits.
Also, I think the in-town economical structure could be developed - I mean, currently, we have a "blacksmith", and that's that. Why not have more things to develop, like Blacksmith to process resources, Weaponry, War Machines Factory, etc.
Likewise, the "Marketplace" concept could be greatly developed if we introduce the concept of food - we could have Marketplaces to trade things, Groceries that increase effect of food production, Graneries to store food, etc. I think one could take a lot of inspiration from Civilization here, really - many of the city structures you build there could be implemented here as well, to add to the concept of building your town.
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As Nebdar says and thinking of peasants or the grave robbers in my own concept - who deliver body parts each day which are needed for the creation of undead creatures - maybe every race should have a low level civilian unit which does not cost food but produces food instead (peasants, hunters, trappers, farmers, gatherers,...). Or alternatively it costs food if used in an army but produces food if leaved in farms or similar buildings.
Again, this is a very interesting idea. I would love to see this whole thing developed into a coherent concept. I think the chalenge will be not to drown the game completely in micromanagement and strange upkeep rules, but again, looking to games like Civilization which have pretty advanced upkeep systems for units, it should be possible to make something simple that could work.
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Asheera
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
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posted October 17, 2008 01:13 PM |
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Quote:
A question: Do we want to use the name Gem or Crystal (if I missed a discussion of this sorry, I skimmed the second page) I myself would prefer crysals, but gems have more elegance to them.
I prefer Crystals as well - Gems sound more like "precious" stones, but useless. Crystals may be more "magical".
But that's just my opinion.
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Daystar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
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posted October 17, 2008 06:58 PM |
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I do agree, Crytals do sound more magical.
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How exactly is luck a skill?
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Snatch
Promising
Known Hero
Proud Kappa
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posted October 17, 2008 08:00 PM |
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Quote:
A problem occurs when you want to recruit the creature without having a hero in town - is that then impossible?
Maybe we should introduce a town building which produces mana. Mana that can be used either to hire/summon creatures or to be given to heroes. Hero skills could increase the mana production. We can have some map buildings for this aswell.
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Asheera
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
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posted October 17, 2008 08:03 PM |
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Good idea, and this way the Magic Guild won't give you full mana to your hero when in town, since we'll have that building to make mana instead.
Let's say a building which has the Magic Guild Level 1 as a prerequisite.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted October 17, 2008 08:23 PM |
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Well the way I imagined it, the Mage Guild would store a certain amount of Mana (depending on its level and the level of the hall) which could then be used for creatures.
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Darkshadow
Legendary Hero
Cerise Princess
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posted October 18, 2008 03:26 PM |
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Quote:
Does building ships require anything other than wood?
Ironclads?
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Andrelvis
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 18, 2008 04:12 PM |
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Quote:
Anyway, for food, what if it costs a set amount to hire a creature, and then they don't need upkeep for a while. However, if you don't return to an allied building (other than mines or places without much food) then you have to start feeding them upkeep. Also, the building you visit will stave off upkeep to different degrees. Eg, the castle staves it off for 2 to 3 weeks, whereas a windmill only lasts for a few days.
And for necro, perhaps they have to convert the food production centers into necrobuildings, which takes a turn or two or something. this might help slow down the Necro imbaskeleton armies thing.
Farm -> Graveyard (For Skellies and Liches)
Granary -> Flesh Deposits (for Vamps and Zombies)
Tavern -> Astral Effulgance (Ghosts and Wraiths)
I would like to see undead creatures not need any food upkeep. It would not only be very flavourful for the Necropolis faction, but it would also make a whole lot of sense. The Vampires, though, should need upkeep in a different form, and simply giving them the food resource for upkeep doesn't cut it. They should be upkept through attacking living units, that is, after attacking a living unit, they can go for X days or weeks without needing to attack another living creature to survive. And, if we disable the Vampires from being satiated in their upkeep by town buildings, it would be quite interesting, as the Necropolis player would need to keep attacking living enemies to keep his Vampires alive - which, again, is very flavourful.
If any upkeep should be added for the other undead, it should be a mana upkeep for skeletons and zombies (as in to keep the bodies animated).
Quote:
Maybe we should introduce a town building which produces mana. Mana that can be used either to hire/summon creatures or to be given to heroes. Hero skills could increase the mana production. We can have some map buildings for this aswell.
Quote:
Well the way I imagined it, the Mage Guild would store a certain amount of Mana (depending on its level and the level of the hall) which could then be used for creatures.
Great ideas 
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Miru
Supreme Hero
A leaf in the river of time
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posted October 20, 2008 08:02 PM |
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Wood
Stone
Metal
Diffferent types of metal?
Crystal
Sulfur (demons only)
dead bodies (necros, maybe for clerics in haven)
Mercury
Food
Beer / Morale!
Gold
Marble
Energy
Man/hours or work time or something
Glass?
Cloth possibly
horses?
maybe everytown has its own resource?
sufer demons
bodies necro
energy academy/conflux
beer haven
in-tune-with-nature-ness? elves
crystals night elves/warlocks
meat swamp/barbarian
also what do you think of gaining resources from battle and upkeep? I think it may bog the game down, but since HoMM is already for strategic patient people, it shouldn't be too much of a problem.
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I wish I were employed by a stupendous paragraph, with capitalized English words and expressions.
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Asheera
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
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posted October 20, 2008 08:08 PM |
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I don't see the point of some of your resources, for example horses. I mean, you should build the stables for horses, and then everything would go in the cavalier's (example of horse-unit) food cost, including the horse's food.
But that beer idea is nice. Maybe you'd have to pay some "beer" resources to improve your Morale for the next fight. However, the larger the army, the higher the cost, or something like that.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted October 20, 2008 11:29 PM |
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Edited by MattII at 00:51, 21 Oct 2008.
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Yeha, raises your morale to maximum, but lowers your attack/defence by 1/creature level.
Honestly though, we can't just go giving out resources randomly, we need to think about these things. Firstly of course we have the universal resources:
Wood (certain buildings, not required for all towns)
Stone (certain building)
Metal/Iron (weapons)
Gold/Money (just about everything)
Beyond that we have the non universal, or 'tech' resources:
Sulphur
Mercury
Crystal (different types maybe, emerald for Sylvan, ruby for Inferno)
Food (again maybe different types, grain for Haven, Fruit for Sylvan)
Mana
Necromancic Mana
etc.
Now, more-or-less all towns will require universal resources, but not all of them will require all of the tech resources (what a demon eats is beyond me, what would Haven do with Sulphur).
Of course, another thought is that each player, apart from the universal resources, needs a food resource and 1-2 tech resources.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted October 21, 2008 08:09 AM |
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Just because I don't think this word has even been mentioned in this thread yet: Are we now talking a sort of Dark Energy for every faction?
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What will happen now?
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted October 21, 2008 11:04 AM |
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Shouldn't think so, Mana works pretty well for nearly everything.
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Asheera
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
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posted October 21, 2008 01:13 PM |
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Isn't upkeep some sort of Dark Energy only that instead of raising units from creeps you have to "keep the others alive?"
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