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| Thread: Precise magic! |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted November 01, 2008 12:40 PM |
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It's not true that it would render Soldier's Luck obsolete, because Soldier's Luck increases the chance to trigger, which would be relevant even if you can see it happen or not. As for the excitement / randomness, I guess that's an individual decision. As I see it, it's about having options to optimize your chances to win. Take for instance Scouting which allows you to see whether neutrals will join or not - that also kills some of the surprise, but on the other hand offers you some new tactical options.
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Asheera
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Elite Assassin
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posted November 01, 2008 01:01 PM |
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Quote:
Nah, leave it be, Chain Lightning is a pretty powerful spell, that much power ought to require that much control to use properly.
Well, Chain Lightning is a pretty weak spell - it's much inferior to Meteor Shower, at least that's what most players (including me) find from experience.
Also, no comment about the Griffin Landing one? Is it a good ability?
(too bad I'm the only one keeping this interesting thread alive with ideas...)
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alcibiades
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Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted November 01, 2008 01:20 PM |
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Yeah, Chain Lightning pretty much stinks as it is now. If the stunning effect worked on each strike, the combo Master Of Storms + Chain Lightning could actually be useful, but as it is ... 
As for the Griffin Landing thing - sorry, but that's too narrow in application for me to really like it.
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted November 01, 2008 01:28 PM |
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Quote:
The feeling you get when your unicorns blind/squires bash/nightmares fear stack x which suddenly turns the tide of the battle is awesome and that skill would pretty much take the thrill out of the game.
Yeah like a Meteor Shower or Frenzy or Blind spell would do less "damage" 
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Asheera
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Elite Assassin
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posted November 01, 2008 01:28 PM |
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Narrow? Don't you hate it when the Griffins land near the enemy to get slaughtered after that, or block your 'planned path' for your units, or land on a Firewall or in a town Moat?
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Oscarius
Famous Hero
*sleepy*
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posted November 01, 2008 01:33 PM |
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Edited by Oscarius at 14:31, 01 Nov 2008.
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How about a skill that narrows down the random secondary skill lottery. Say you cast that, then you can chose from which skills the perks will come from. Also you can chose to a extent which skill you can chose by selecting 2 skills which are then radomly chosen.
Example: your a wizard with bas. artifacter, adv. light and exp. sorcery with the perks macic mirror and arcane training. You cast that spell, then you select for the perks say light and sorcery, now your going to be able to select 1 perk from light or 1 perk from sorcery. You also select which skills you'll be able to learn at the lv-up, first you select advancement.
Say you take light and artifacter, then at the lv-up you're going to learn with 100% surety either adv. artifacter or exp. light. You can also select which new skill you can learn, say you'll select leadership and logistics, both with low chances to pop up for wizards, then at the lv-up you're going to get either logistics or leadership.
Maybe good idea, maybe bad... Or maybe ununderstandable cause of my english 
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Asheera
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posted November 01, 2008 02:17 PM |
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Pretty nice idea, but it would work as a spell (as you said later) - first you said it is a skill (and a skill to narrow down the skill choices is kinda weird)
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alcibiades
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Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted November 01, 2008 02:39 PM |
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I don't think it should be a spell, mostly because it will skew the balance between Might and Magic heroes and because it's something that doesn't relate to game actions as such.
Rather I think the whole skill system should be changed so that you can either a) choose what skills you want from all available, or b) "study" for a specific skill, possible vs. some XP penalty. For instance, if you want to learn a specific perk, you could force this perk to show up on next level-up at the cost of increasing the XP requirements for this level by some % amount, for instance by 20 %.
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted November 01, 2008 03:08 PM |
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@Alc you're right and that's why I said
Quote:
soldiers luck (to a degree)
since it will "only" increase the chance for the trigger. But the fact that you still will see wether or not it triggers kinda makes it irrelevant since you often enough will have the chance too attack multiple targets and an attack against one out of three possible targets will most likely trigger the effect you wish for (without soldiers luck). You just have to chose the one were it triggers.
But yes it ultimately comes down to wether you prefer optimizing your chances of winning over the "thrill" and I don't.
@TheDeath
Sorry but I didn't get your comment.
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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Asheera
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Elite Assassin
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posted November 01, 2008 03:11 PM |
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I don't get your point Azagal.
Let's say your Nightmares attack a Paladin stack.
Case 1:
Without Soldier's Luck, they wouldn't trigger Fear.
With Soldier's Luck, they do.
Soldier's Luck is useful in this case
Case 2:
Without Soldier's Luck, they trigger fear.
With Soldier's Luck, they do (of course)
Soldier's Luck is useless in this case
Case 3:
Without Soldier's Luck, they don't trigger fear.
With Soldier's Luck, they don't as well.
Soldier's Luck is useless in this case
What has the fact that you KNOW it triggers or not have to do with this ability?
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Azagal
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Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted November 01, 2008 03:27 PM |
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Quote:
What has the fact that you KNOW it triggers or not have to do with this ability?
My argument was that "Soldiers Luck" loses much of it's importance (in my eyes) if you can see wether or not it triggers. My (admitingly bad explained example) was that say your Nightmare charges and due to it's 8 speed + tactics it is able to reach a 4tile field at the enemy lines in those 4 tiles you will most likely (not always of course) be able to reach more than one enemy. Now you have to chose which of the 2-3 enemys to attack and the more enemys the higher the chance that fear will trigger (not on a specific target but the overall chance due to multiple targets).
The goal of Soldiers Luck is to increase the chance of fear triggering but with that skill you'll always know where it triggers so it will always trigger.
Therefore "Soldiers Luck" loses much of it's attractivenes since fear will most likely trigger anyways, it will only be good for increaseing the chance to trigger with less possible targets (useful for a squire or peasent perhaps) but for units as Unicorns and Nightmares won't really be needing Soldiers Luck anymore.
Clearer?
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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Asheera
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posted November 01, 2008 03:54 PM |
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Ok I understand, but do you attack with the Nightmares for their Fear attack only? Sometimes it does matter which target you attack, so it's not always better to attack a target even if Fear triggers and on the other not.
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted November 01, 2008 04:08 PM |
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True you don't attack for fear the fear attack it's usually a bonus. But an effect like blind or fear may very well change your prioritys (say you can either attack Paladins or Blind Seraphs). But examples really are too much theory crafting and I've already derailed this thread to much.
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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Asheera
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Elite Assassin
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posted November 01, 2008 08:28 PM |
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Edited by Asheera at 20:29, 01 Nov 2008.
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Terrain Shape - a (logistics?) perk which allows you to choose the terrain you want to fight on before a fight. It also allows you to shape the obstacles as you wish (you can't place too many though)
Also, that Role Reversal idea reminded me of another spell I joked about
Inverse Stats - this spell inverses the digits of a stat (you choose it). For example, a 19 Attack creature will have an attack of 91 after this spell is cast, and a creature with 260 HP will have only 62 HP after this spell is cast on it. Works on both friendly and enemy creatures.
I know it's silly, but at least it's pretty funny, isn't it? 
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted November 01, 2008 09:59 PM |
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Quote:
Well, Chain Lightning is a pretty weak spell - it's much inferior to Meteor Shower, at least that's what most players (including me) find from experience.
Quote:
Yeah, Chain Lightning pretty much stinks as it is now. If the stunning effect worked on each strike, the combo Master Of Storms + Chain Lightning could actually be useful, but as it is ...
Okay then, maybe modify it then, instead of dropping to half each consecutive hit (1/8 by the 4th target) drop it by 1/4 each time (full damage, 3/4, 1/2, 1/4).
Also, no comment about the Griffin Landing one? Is it a good ability?
Never actually played HoMM5, so I can't offer any comment.
Quote:
How about a skill that narrows down the random secondary skill lottery. Say you cast that, then you can chose from which skills the perks will come from. Also you can chose to a extent which skill you can chose by selecting 2 skills which are then radomly chosen.
Interesting, but not quite this way. Maybe you should automatically be given a choice of either learning one new skill or one perk/level up from a current skill, and have, say, two artifacts, one each to takeit either way (two new or two perks, until all such options have been exhausted). There could also be a number of artifacts that give you the base level of each skill (and block out a skill selection slot).
Quote:
Terrain Shape - a (logistics?) perk which allows you to choose the terrain you want to fight on before a fight. It also allows you to shape the obstacles as you wish (you can't place too many though)
Not in favour.
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Asheera
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posted November 01, 2008 10:36 PM |
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How about a perk for Academy which allows you to choose what spell the Djinn's will cast?
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted November 01, 2008 11:03 PM |
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Quote:
How about a perk for Academy which allows you to choose what spell the Djinn's will cast?
Now that I can agree to, it's very annoying to get Endurance cast on your Golems when what you were really after was Haste, or likewise, casting Sorrow on a Lich stack when you were really after Weakness.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted November 03, 2008 09:14 AM |
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I think that would qualify more as an additional bonus for a Hero which specializes in Djinns - i.e. he increases Attack and Defence by +1 for every second level of the hero, and then has a chance (3 % per level?) of determining which spell the Djinn will cast. If he fails the check, the Djinn will cast a random spell from all available, i.e. he can still hit the needed spell.
Btw. the Griffin Landing thing could also be a bi-effect for the Griffin specilized Hero? I think it would be nice to have some more "advanced" bonuses for the creature specialists, not just the boring +1 Attack / Defence. Of course nothing too imba (Ingvar  ) but something useful.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted November 03, 2008 10:15 AM |
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Quote:
I think that would qualify more as an additional bonus for a Hero which specializes in Djinns - i.e. he increases Attack and Defence by +1 for every second level of the hero, and then has a chance (3 % per level?) of determining which spell the Djinn will cast. If he fails the check, the Djinn will cast a random spell from all available, i.e. he can still hit the needed spell.
Suits me.
Quote:
I think it would be nice to have some more "advanced" bonuses for the creature specialists, not just the boring +1 Attack / Defence.
I can certainly go along with that.
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Asheera
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
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posted November 04, 2008 03:03 PM |
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Precise Adventure Viewing
I think Scouting should also allow you to see what the Witch Hut gives you, how many resources a pile of treasure gives you, how many Gold/Exp a Treasure Chest gives you (or if it gives you a Minor Artifact), what artifact the Skeleton gives you (if it gives you, that is), how much luck the Fountain of Fortune gives you, and so on... (or maybe this could be another ability... dunno)
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