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| Thread: Did you know that every HoMM V game is actually a stalemate? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV |
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iohann
Hired Hero
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posted October 29, 2008 04:01 PM |
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Quote:
Why do I have to tell everything thrice? This is Heroes FIVE. so we have a lot of experience with things.
That's why a decent MP map must either
1) have additional victory condition(s) except kill them all (and you can basically have ANY vc you want with H5). Example: conquer a specific town.
2) have means on the map to give a big advantage: DECISIVE outside creature dwellings, certain spells (in a wand, scroll or grimoire), tear of asha, big cache of money, additional town(s), fully built or with creatures, relic artifacts, DECISIVE heroes to be freed,
PREFARABLY AN INTERESTING COMBINATION OF MORE THAN ONE THING!
Ok, thats for the future. What now? Stalemate's upon most of the toh games!
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Kispagat
Famous Hero
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posted October 29, 2008 05:26 PM |
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Ok, thats for the future. What now? Stalemate's upon most of the toh games!
Most? No way.
Why would it be a stalemate? It might take long in your theorethical map, but still sure win.
Advantages:
- If there is a dwelling, you will have it the other does not.
- If there are mines, you will be the only one who get resources, he will get 7 only from his resource silo.
- If there is a market in the map, you can sell the resources in much higher prices
- If there is an artifact merchant, you can buy arties while he cant afford that, even he has in his castle
- Without resources, upgrading is hard
- If there is a magic shop, u can buy all spells, the other dont.
- If there is a mentor, u can learn summonming and try to get earthquake
- u may mentor teleport (assault also)
- u may change the week to disease or fever, when you have bought your army, while your opponent cant
And if u have tried all those above, and despite of this still it turn out to be a suicide mission, dont play that map vs that opponent again
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fiur
Promising
Supreme Hero
Map Creator
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posted October 30, 2008 12:12 AM |
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hmmmm.
@ JJ I guess most toh players would'nt accept such an victory conditions... (only kill'em all...or the map is broken bla bla bla..I can hear the crowd screamin... 
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I got some h5 games by now.... (and so far I've played most of the styles in da game...)
bottom line #1 I'm a simple man with an simple style....
I prefer to get into action on an open field... and I never gonna crawl back into my mighty town even if my enemie is close by...
(if he is I guess he did an damn great game an deserve to face me in the open field...Spartan or no Spartan....)
bottom line #2
if you play ppl you know (their style and all in all behaviour)
you Do not need 15 rules and bla bla...
bottom line #3
here is the list of "rules" I use most of my games
1: no mirror (both got same town)
2: no DV (divine vengeance)
3: no hit/run
4: no Mentoring
5: no Castle sitting
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but I can for sure play all other "ways" too... but after my games I feel most comfort to play "under" the rules above... (I feel kinda dirty when I use X or even Y
Epilog:
for me Heroes of Might and Magic V is a game for lot's of Joy and friendship (spending several hours with nice ppl. around the world)
and praise the Lords most ppl. are Nice...
most of the games I play is against ppl who share my "set" of rules..
"now and then I play no rules games.... but as you should know by now.. I don't like it at all..."
about the "war" thing... thats in "real" life... for me this is a game I don't need to go crazy on this field.....
(if I can't win my games by playing "My way" well then gg better luck next time...)
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well I may be all wrong here but since it's an so called free world I take my chances (and I assume that I've still got alot of things to learn about this game...
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted October 30, 2008 12:15 AM |
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Bravo! Bravo! Bravo!
You are da Main Fiur! Couldnt have said it better myself.
I agree 1000% with Fiurs entire post!
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iohann
Hired Hero
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posted October 30, 2008 01:19 AM |
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Quote:
Bravo! Bravo! Bravo!
You are da Main Fiur! Couldnt have said it better myself.
I agree 1000% with Fiurs entire post!
Cool!
But... What if the castle is just too strong same as DV or pre-3.1 flaming arrows?
You can fix it either with patch or with rule of the honor (also sort of a patch), no?
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infinitus
Supreme Hero
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posted October 30, 2008 06:54 AM |
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Iohann, you don't need any patch or rule, just pick as opponent really good player and ask him to beat your castle seating... One, two games and you will know how to solve this ...
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Nothing's impossible
http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=loCSLJ6IodY
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 30, 2008 08:43 AM |
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Well. I play for fun as well, friends and so on, but I have a completely different opinion: no private rules. Because if you start, there is no end to them: no chaining longer than 3 heroes, no 1st day, 1st player attacks, no heroes x, y, z, no Dwarven special garrison, no Stalkers, no swearing, no talk, no time limit, time limit, automatic battles, blablabla.
Well, in fact, with friends there is one: ONE reload for each side, to be taken anytime except in battle against each other. You know, you ARE living in a real world when you are playing, and snow happens every which way - phone call, door bell, something that is breaking your concentration, and before you know it, after a short break, you botched it. You don't want an exciting game end in week 5 because there has been a disturbance or an extremely unlucky break with a stack of neutrals. But that's with friends only.
Why? Because it's the map maker's task to make the map playable without any rules, that's why. After all, it's their map, and if the map will be open to hit-and-run attacks, for example, make sure they can't happen.
Now, for how a map should look like:
Frankly, if you want a map to end in some titanic battle, but not in a town siege, PLAY A DUEL; that's what it's there for. Play it the following way:
Make a preset, each, limit the point value to a certain number, one spell allowed per school, only the two main schools allowed, except for Academy and except for level 1 and 2 spells (one additional each), with 2 magic skills max, except Academy.
Play TWO battles, start with SWITCHED heroes, so that in the first duel each player will play with the opponent's hero and army. After the first duel switch heroes back, so that every player plays their OWN hero. If both battles are won by the same HERO, the player wins who made the HERO. If both battles are won by the same PLAYER, that player wins. Note, that you will always have a winner this way.
Playing a map means something else, though: Completing a vc. ANY vc, mind you. In my gaming experience - and I have a lot for Heroes - a map with different or more vcs than kill them all plays a LOT better than a simple one-on-one beat-me-up. A HELL of a lot. That's mainly because the kill'em all is in effect as well, but you actually don't have to pass each other to win. You can (and actually have to) split your attention. Note that for these kinds of maps the Mentoring skill suddenly isn't unbalanced anymore because you actually got real jobs for those mentored freaks, not just hit-and-runs. With additional vcs - or at least with far away Eldorados - the game gets more than one dimension. Add additional AI players and you suddenly have A LOT more dimensions. Believe me, when you play THAT kind of maps you won't worry about whether your catapult will be destroyed or not, or whether DV is imba (they've changed it anyway now, I think), whether mentoring is stupid and whether this or that. You will just have to play your best, and often you will get a field battle anyway - at that town or in that town you have to take. You know, that VC that you have to take AND HOLD a certain town is pretty cool in that respect, since the first one in will have a decimated force; with players of roughly equal skill the siege battle that follows is quite a different thing.
So the bottom line here is the following: DON'T REDUCE THE GAME TO SOMETHING IT ISN'T! BE CREATIVE WITH YOUR MAPS!
If you dislike certain game aspects, make maps that work around them. You dislike hit-and-run? Make a darn map out of it! Give everyone 7 Stalkers each week and a hero for free with power 6, 30 spell points and Empowered Ice Bolt, fresh from the Dark Elven Ninja Assassination Guild, LTD., and let them wreak havoc. Or set NEUTRAL Ninjas everywhere, hit-running the players. Why not? It's a game, dammit, no science. You are supposed to have fun, not complaining about how imbalanced everything was.
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fraudatio
Famous Hero
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posted October 30, 2008 07:10 PM |
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Seriously, the game is now 2-3 years old? And suddenly castle sitting will destroy the game and personal rules is the road to all the worst. Amazingly drawn conclutions.
Its no issue, its nothing. I have played some 200 games and I have never had any castle sitting issues. If people want to sit in castle for hours, then just play serious players. Worst case, report a loss if you get tired of waiting and move on. It happens i guess 1 out of 1000 games.
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insatiable
Supreme Hero
Ultimate N00bidity
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posted October 31, 2008 03:19 PM |
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Quote:
If people want to sit in castle for hours, then just play serious players.
.. says it all
is a WAR anyway, if someone sit in town for more than 2-3 days is clear he should ask for a draw, or else.. badluck, you just played a guy who dont know how to lose=dont know how to play within unscripted rules=eventually will be left alone.. not just in toh, in real life thing as well
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted October 31, 2008 04:08 PM |
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Indeed... since we are using the WAR analogy...
Can compare Town Sitting and Hit and run type tactics to TERRORIST! They are COWARDS! They sneak in and plant a bomb and run.. ( hit and run ) Cause they are cowards and cant win face to face. And then when someone comes looking for them they run into the mountains and HIDE, like Osama Binladen. ( town sitting )
So if you wanna play like a cowardly dishonorable Terrorist... that is fine.. but it is NOT real war.. That is Cowards tactics.
Its like challanging someone to a Fist Fight Duel of Honor... and you get into ring and then pull a gun on the guy.. Sure you won and used everything at your disposal.. But wheres the honor?
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted October 31, 2008 04:22 PM |
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some of you guys have an imagination that just blows me off
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Elit
Famous Hero
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posted October 31, 2008 05:09 PM |
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I think you all need to stop cry. If your oponent stay in his town and you dont know how to beat him--> go report! He deserve his victory.
Lack of skills dont mean game is unbalanced and need to make 100 rules for play it.
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infinitus
Supreme Hero
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posted October 31, 2008 05:20 PM |
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Fanatics, rules makers, please stop cry Any player are free to do what he like to do in game. Example - necromancers kill enemy troops in necro town, and transform enemies in undead ... This is morale act ? Terrorism is nothing compared to this Necro are maniacs . Let's ban this i morale town !
Jinxer - how about Town hero Leningrad, now Petersburg ? This town get his hero status for resist siege of Hitler hordes ....
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Nothing's impossible
http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=loCSLJ6IodY
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Kispagat
Famous Hero
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posted October 31, 2008 05:26 PM |
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Quote:
Fanatics, rules makers, please stop cry Any player are free to do what he like to do in game. Example - necromancers kill enemy troops in necro town, and transform enemies in undead ... This is morale act ? Terrorism is nothing compared to this Necro are maniacs . Let's ban this i morale town !
And they are ugly, and also stinky as a rotten body
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted October 31, 2008 08:02 PM |
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hahahah -- I never said it had to be a rule. All you guys keep bringing up the WAR ANALOGY.... etc etc... I was simply using the same analogy... only putting it in the correct perspective.
bottom line... If I rush you or you rush me... and you come to me and are DOUBLE stronger then me.. then sitting in town trying to level the battle field makes sense..
HOWEVER... at the end of a nice long hard fought game.. we meet up and have equal stats and equal army... and I decide to hide behind the walls because I want to kill your catapult and trap you outside walls and try and gain an overwhelming lopsided advantage... picking you off while you sit there helpless... that is just plain sillyness..
As I said I have never verbally made that rule.. and never will.. I tend to play opponents that I know they play honorably and its a no brainer that I dont ahve to worry about them being cowards and hiding in town. And if I play someone that isnt in the " good ol Boy" network.. that wants to pull all that crap... then gg and I put them on my Never play again list. Simple. No rules needed about townsitting.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 31, 2008 08:27 PM |
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Ah. So honorable play means, if a player comes near the opponent's town, the opponent must face the visitor in open field battle, if both players may seen to be about equally strong?
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted October 31, 2008 08:53 PM |
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Edited by Jinxer at 20:55, 31 Oct 2008.
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Honorable obviously means something different to everyone. BE and Play your way. The reputation you derive from how you play will speak for itself.
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insatiable
Supreme Hero
Ultimate N00bidity
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posted November 01, 2008 07:45 AM |
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actually..
theres no real reason to leave castle at all.. i mean not at all, just sit there day1 day1 day3 day4.. until the end of times.. hey! like real life 
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted November 01, 2008 08:11 AM |
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I think no rules is the less disputable way to play Heroes. Maybe you will not like an opponent style of play, but don't tell him he is dishonourable, just make your list.
Just finished my game on Hamachi vs a very nice guy, we talk about things and other, then we played. He wanted the Helm+6, killed guards but had no move enough to take it. We had both dimension door. I was not far away and I took the opportunity, picked the helm and crushed him. Result: he leaved and told me how I am dishonourable.
For me, not having enough move points to achieve your goal is a punishable fault, that's all. How people can't see where they are wrong and instead criticize others. Amazing.
Sorry for off topic, but the discussion were that way .
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Era II mods and utilities
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