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| Thread: New-gen haters?! |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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xerox
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posted December 15, 2008 08:52 PM |
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Edited by xerox at 20:53, 15 Dec 2008.
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Warcraft 3 is pretty easy (on normal atleast) but Starcraft... easy?
I hate Starcraft because I can never compelte the damn campaigns
I have never ever heard of Spellforce however, sorry.
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TheDeath
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posted December 15, 2008 09:31 PM |
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Not to ruin the moment but I agree with Ash regarding Starcraft's difficulty -- I assume that you find it hard because you rush?
Well here's a tip against computer opponents: turtle. It'll be a piece of cake to finish off. Trust me 
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Shares
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posted December 15, 2008 10:04 PM |
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OK, first of all I can't understand how this thread got five pages, and secondly starcraft is easy 'cause of the easyness of building invincible armies. I mean, a couple of tanks (kills all ground) and 24 valkyries (take all air). Play those well and you can beat any computer. That's just one of the many comos you can play.
Any way, the new vs old game is simple, there's one thing that has changed. The possibilities are HUGE!!! In 8-bit there's not so many possibilities, therefore few bugs and errors, and it's always simple (lost vikings was a VERY advanced game when it was released, now it's a quite simple game). Also, when you play a sequel, you expect it to be the same as the one you played, but improved. That's rarely the case, often it's a new game that resemmbles the old one and has some things copied/stolen from the old one.
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JoonasTo
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posted December 15, 2008 10:31 PM |
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Edited by JoonasTo at 22:32, 15 Dec 2008.
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Dungeon siege is hack and slash and fallout isn't new.
o_O Oookay O_o
Maybe we've played a different StarCraft. In my game turtle=death. It's either rush or aggressive eco expansion. If you turtle you run out of resources and die.
How can you build 12 zealots and 12 dragoons in peace? The enemy rushes you when it has around 10 zealots. So playing against two enemies you get crushed if you're just building up an army. You need to get rid of the other one somehow. Delay their attack by luring them in circles, rushing them earlier or doing the good old lure workers away from minerals trick. Getting attacked by 20 zealots when you only have 10 is impossible to win.
Skirmish against one opponent ends in the second you rush him. But if you don't rush him it will be harder than any campaign map.
Campaigns are case specific and though they are the hardest RTS game campaigns I've come against the skirmish is harder.
Spellforce was a pretty easy. Ice mages are imba. Those maps with ice freeze immune creatures were a pain though.
I beat the Co-op with a friend playing the maps in numerical order.
Hey luring enemy away from spawns isn't abuse. It's a tactic. 
Besides the spawn points don't appear if you aren't foolish enough to activate a monument. You can pick them out one by one.
Of course I played it on hard. I play every game on the hardest level from the start. For once in a long time I didn't do so for King's bounty the legend, BIG mistkae. Was way too easy on hard. Not that impossible with mage was any harder though.
BTW. I used to be a turtler before StarCraft. Now I know how to play rush or something in between also. Had to learn 'cause StarCraft would butcher me if not.
PS. Extra campaigns mean the "Enslaver" campaigns. They are in the scenarios folder. I try to find something about them to link you.
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Asheera
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posted December 15, 2008 10:36 PM |
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Quote:
How can you build 12 zealots and 12 dragoons in peace? The enemy rushes you when it has around 10 zealots.
Yep, it attacks with 12 Zealots, but the AI is so slow (or am I too fast? ) that I have around 18 Zealots by that time. Or even build up 2 Photon Cannons, and I can take out the attack of two AIs easily.
For Spellforce:
Not activating the monument = abuse, since the game has been coded that way because some people may activate the monument at a later time (let's say they explore the area around with the Avatar, etc) and it wouldn't be fair to be harder for them. It was not meant to attack the enemy without activating the monument.
Luring the AI away from the buildings = abuse, because the AI is stupid and you exploit its weaknesses here. Enough said
But this is really off-topic, or isn't it?
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TheDeath
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posted December 15, 2008 10:39 PM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 22:40, 15 Dec 2008.
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Quote:
Maybe we've played a different StarCraft. In my game turtle=death. It's either rush or aggressive eco expansion. If you turtle you run out of resources and die.
You do know how to buffer-up or whatever it's called, at least with Zerg, which is what I play, against Protoss right? Sunkens and Hydras behind?
With Terrans, go for Lurkers ASAP. If you're good enough you'll get them before they attack you. You can beat 6 this way, in the first wave. Dealing with Siege Tanks is more difficult (second wave) against 6 computers but you MUST do tricks like burrowing and exploiting some computer AI weaknesses.
After the second wave the AI is so weak that it runs "out of ai" (trust me I know the script of the AI, I used to make an improved one), and only thing it does is send occasionally 1 Wraith to attack you. Lame. Or 2-3 marines and a Tank... is that an attack? seriously, I'm tired of developers making AIs "harass" you (hardly) by pumping units at your base the instant they're produced instead of, you know, amassing them...
Then again, 6 computers is like 5x the difficulty of the campaign. The campaign is extremely easy. So easy that all you have to do is defense up a bit, and go for Guardians and Devourers (12 of each). Then it's gg.
Quote:
BTW. I used to be a turtler before StarCraft. Now I know how to play rush or something in between also. Had to learn 'cause StarCraft would butcher me if not.
Turtling is super-effective against AIs.
Of course, you need to expand at the nearest base, with Zerg, that is your first Hatchery
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PS. Extra campaigns mean the "Enslaver" campaigns. They are in the scenarios folder. I try to find something about them to link you.
The ones with the "Torrasque" in the last mission (I think), right?
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JoonasTo
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posted December 15, 2008 10:44 PM |
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You must tell me your secret o fast one.
I can make maybe 14 or so.
But then again I play Zerg best. Protoss around average I think. Terrans I suck with.
Luring them away from nodes is called a diversion.
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TheDeath
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posted December 15, 2008 10:49 PM |
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Ok now that I think about it, you'll have to be extremely lucky to stop the second wave of the 6 computer Terrans, and will need to research Brooding in the process (that means you have to use Zerglings to lure them away and buy some time). So yeah it's very difficult but only against 6, and many times I lost due to bad coordination or luck.
Usually 3 AIs is the "norm" so it's pretty easy.
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Asheera
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posted December 15, 2008 10:51 PM |
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I'm gonna continue the discussion in a Starcraft thread, let's not derail this too off-topic.
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JoonasTo
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posted December 15, 2008 11:00 PM |
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You do know how to buffer-up or whatever it's called, at least with Zerg, which is what I play, against Protoss right? Sunkens and Hydras behind?
I do.
Quote:
After the second wave the AI is so weak that it runs "out of ai" (trust me I know the script of the AI, I used to make an improved one), and only thing it does is send occasionally 1 Wraith to attack you. Lame. Or 2-3 marines and a Tank... is that an attack? seriously, I'm tired of developers making AIs "harass" you (hardly) by pumping units at your base the instant they're produced instead of, you know, amassing them...
That's not what happens with me, they harass yes but mostly by using magicians. But they to tend to become defensive. That is true.
I often find that I need at least two sites.
Torrasque, yes. Played the second map with the protoss where you start with a few troops and there are bases in each corner of the map. NOW that was a har map. 
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william
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posted December 15, 2008 11:04 PM |
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I have to agree with Joonas. Starcraft isn't that easy of a game as Asheera and TheDeath seem to say it is. Are you even playing the same game?
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TheDeath
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posted December 15, 2008 11:11 PM |
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Quote:
Are you even playing the same game?
What kinda argument is that? Anyway I'm using latest patch, but I doubt it matters.
Then again, the AI doesn't just become defensive, it becomes almost stuck -- he doesn't amass a lot of units for defense, he doesn't produce them at all. He produces them rarely and sends them out when they get out of the factory to get squashed by your defenses.
Spellforce cooperative (from expansion 1 onwards) is really hard, on the other hand. Some coop maps are easy but some are just incredibly hard. Especially the Coop 30 map, it's next to impossible I'd say. (of course this assumes you start up the monument immediately, not do cheap abuses).
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JoonasTo
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posted December 15, 2008 11:15 PM |
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Edited by JoonasTo at 23:22, 15 Dec 2008.
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Death, Thread changed to here.
To stop spamming this one.
Spellforce is still in this it seems though. Who was it that I saw talking about not exploiting all possibilities in a game isn't playing it to it's fullest.
Damn, that was mvass adn doomforge not you. Well you all are jsut the same anyways. Telling you apart is hard.
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posted December 16, 2008 01:26 AM |
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Quote:
Warcraft 3 hard? Did we play the same game?
Well I thought I made it clear it was on hard difficulty. On normal the campaigns are a piece of cake. Starcraft is a bit harder, and still W3 on normal is on par with most new games regarding difficulty  .
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mvassilev
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posted December 16, 2008 01:31 AM |
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From my experience in both Warcraft 3 and Starcraft (which, I admit, is quite paltry), the AI in Warcraft is much better - I mean, it actually tries to win, instead of slowly gathering resources and almost never building.
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Mamgaeater
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posted December 16, 2008 02:38 AM |
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How many games (non MMOs) have a patch released after six years, and the fans are still extremely enthusiastic about it? Apart from NWN I don't know of such a game.
Starcraft, AoM (Its a fanpatch), Not to mention other fanpatches....
And its all opinion btw...
Turtling is a viable strategy because it takes advantage of a weak ai.
such as in Aoe2: If you survive beyond 1-2 hours you win because the ai hase exhausted resources.
Difficulty != Fun Nor does it make for better gameplay.
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Asheera
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posted December 16, 2008 01:37 PM |
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Starcraft, AoM (Its a fanpatch), Not to mention other fanpatches....
I'm not sure if fanpatches should count
And even then, how much did those patches add? A few fixes, I suppose, and not a lot of new features that are more than that of an expansion 
Patch 1.69 for NWN has more features than SoU (first expansion) itself, except Campaigns. It adds new tilesets, new creatures, new objects, new music, a new prestige class, rideable horses (a very interesting and innovative idea for NWN), and much more. Just check the changelog (no, not only the bug fixes) and see what I mean.
And still your list is very short so that proves my point.
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TheDeath
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posted December 16, 2008 01:44 PM |
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Quote:
Turtling is a viable strategy because it takes advantage of a weak ai.
Not really, it's a viable strategy when you are outnumbered. Look at Lord of the Rings. They all need turtling and defenses "against all odds" how they put it. I think it's more realistic
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Difficulty != Fun Nor does it make for better gameplay.
Yes it is. If you want no difficulty, go watch movies, they don't have any gameplay and the difficulty does not exist.
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And still your list is very short so that proves my point.
And what was your point? That it is popular? Nope. My guess is that Nwn is weak in itself (compared to others like Starcraft) and it NEEDS a continuous flux of "new things" added (patches) otherwise it becomes boring. That means it is less impressive than a game that isn't changed but still played a lot.
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Shares
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posted December 16, 2008 02:14 PM |
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NWN is linear and repeative, it also has the DnD system (no offence to any one) so the characters have all been available before. Nothing new, so to speak. But the editor is very good, the makers haven't done anything that you can't do with the editor (well, I don't think you can create new modelfiles with the editor, but that doesn't count).
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TitaniumAlloy
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posted December 16, 2008 03:05 PM |
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Of course everything new sucks and everything old is better, it's not just games but music, clothing, fashions evolve but people fear change and loud-mouthing on youtube and facebook (and in this case, gamespot) is the new way to express this.
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