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| Thread: Supernatural |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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TheDeath
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posted December 17, 2008 02:27 PM |
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How come that I know what's going to happen, but can't do anything?
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Mamgaeater
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posted December 17, 2008 10:37 PM |
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I used to have frequent deja-vu And one time in grade school i met a guy who also dreamed he had met me before...
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sith_of_ziost
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posted December 18, 2008 03:11 AM |
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Deja Vu is a predilection to repetition. I myself of encountered more than my fair share of these instances. I think it myself that I have precognitive dreams that trigger the deja vu. However, sometimes its something so subliminal that I believe its a message from beyond, like some kind of secondary influence.
As for your experience Mytical, I most definitel have encountered such phantoms. I think they refer to them as trapped spirits. That either they are linked to the scene due to tragic feelings of horror or deep sympathy toward the area. I believe that I have had another type of encounter: a possession. I think that a certain sprite entered me and tried to take control, but I have a preexisting link to a different kind of power, who's identity I cannot reveal. Not that it would take much guessing to derive it.
So, how about the more "real" stories, like demons and Loch Ness and imps?
@TheDeath - I believe that you can't contorol it because of causality. What is gonna happen can't be prevented.
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TitaniumAlloy
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posted December 18, 2008 10:10 AM |
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Quote:
How come that I know what's going to happen, but can't do anything?
Because you're a nutbar
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del_diablo
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posted December 18, 2008 02:03 PM |
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Lets face it, the supernatural is what is suppose to be beyond us all.
thedeath: To quote "thejulekalender": "Because its like that"
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Totoro
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posted December 18, 2008 08:20 PM |
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Edited by Totoro at 20:29, 18 Dec 2008.
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You know, long time ago people considered lightning supernatural.
But now we know that lightning is completely natural. So basically there is no supernatural things and if few people in the world would witness something supernatural, it would actually be natural; we just couldn't explain it and that's why we called it supernatural.
If someone seems to be able to foresee things (such as my grand-grandmother) that would have an explanation we don't know yet. Human brains is still a mystery to us, and another example is gravity, we can't identify the source of gravity. We just know that objects with large mass have large gravity.
There is so much human doesn't know and that's why everybody should be open for just anything we haven't witnessed.
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Warmonger
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posted December 18, 2008 08:54 PM |
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I also believe that most of 'supernatural' phenomena (ghosts, UFO, levitation to name a few) are marks of physics laws unknown to us so far. Most likely someday we will find an explanation for some of them, be it more or less obvious.
I don't negate their existence, but since we can't say anything serious about their nature, I don't bother with it at all.
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Asheera
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posted December 18, 2008 08:58 PM |
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I agree that this supernatural may one day become natural, when the humans will find out an explanation and discover the spiritual plane or anything weird like that.
Unfortunately I doubt the humans will be able to know everything, even far off in the future. And I'm not talking only about supernatural here, but about the mysteries of the universe as well.
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Darkshadow
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posted December 18, 2008 09:23 PM |
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Quote:
Lets face it, the supernatural is what is suppose to be beyond us all.
So wormholes are supernatural?
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xerox
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posted December 18, 2008 09:57 PM |
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Edited by xerox at 21:59, 18 Dec 2008.
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Lol @ leviation. Atleast some people say they have seen/sensed ghosts, but I have never heard anything about leviation lol.
Anyway, in my opinion there is nothing supernatural. I dont belive there are ghosts or spirits.
I dont belive in any religion, but then I have grown up in a country where the majority of the people are atheists, so its not very strange.
Ghosts seems childish and silly to me. Of course there are things we have not discovered yet, but I dont think ghosts and supernatural things are one of them.
The soul and ghosts etc fits great in fantasy worlds, but not in real life.
However about religion.
Im sure that Jesus existed and many things in the Bible happened etc (even though it has changed over time, like Jesus was NOT born in decemeber) but I dont think he had crazy magical powerz and that many stuff have changed a lot.
The bible has also changed many times to fit with science (the world is round etc).
Also religion has stolen a lot of things. Like Christmas is stolen from the ancient romans and then later yule (which is celebrated instead of x-mas in nordic countries).
edit: I fail to see how empathy is something supernatural. Is a physlogial (spelling?) emotion.
I feel empathy a lot of times, like that girl in my grade that gets a bit bullied by the guys. I always try to cheer her up, but then again she is not so perfect and nice herself.
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- John Stuart Mill
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TheDeath
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posted December 18, 2008 10:05 PM |
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Quote:
But now we know that lightning is completely natural.
Define 'natural'. Is it something bound by mathematics? What is actually the need for something to be called 'natural', what?
I suppose that an explanation must always resort to mathematics laws in our control... what if actually we are in some alien simulation? And the aliens can control everything with their own will? That won't be considered an explanation, of course, since it's not based on mathematics... or will it? How is that different than ghosts?
I suppose "A ghost hit me" isn't enough of an explanation compared to "a kid hit me", the latter being perfectly natural... or what?
I don't get exactly the line between 'natural' and 'supernatural' whatever that is. I mean, it's not like you can predict the behavior of a human with mathematics (physics laws or somesuch) so by that definition, humans are supernatural.
What makes ghosts any less 'natural'?
You can still consider the lightning supernatural, after all 'natural' and 'supernatural' are loosely defined --
however I have noticed that some (some) people don't believe in the supernatural, just because they don't like the idea of it or are scared of it -- like being afraid of the unknown. They don't just "want proof", they actually HOPE that proof will never be given, or that they will never experience it -- just like some people HOPE that there aren't any aliens. meh.
also:Quote:
"We have no right to assume that any physical laws exist, or if they have existed up until now, that they will continue to exist in a similar manner in the future." - Max Planck
gravity isn't very natural eh?
(I hope you know who Planck is)
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sith_of_ziost
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posted December 19, 2008 05:19 AM |
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we can't identify the source of gravity. We just know that objects with large mass have large gravity.
All things have gravity. Its a ratio between the energetic fields produced by the minamal rotations of the electron fields of all things in existence. Its just that humans have gravity to the tenth decimal place...So, in essence, we know what gravity is.
Quote:
What makes ghosts any less 'natural'?
Most consider this to be a matter of sanity. Perhaps extradimensional energy or a higher lifeform...
Which brings up an interesting subject: the nature of the supernatura. What makes them them?
I believe the ghosts, or phantasma for the sake of science, are just another being on the list of xenobiology - the study of unproved existences. Their temporal alignment (phase) does not correspond with us, but like any force, it can affect things around it. Hence, the "haunting" effect. However, I believe the psychology of these beings is a subject best left untouched. We as a whole cannot begin to fathom the extent of such an existence.
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Mytical
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posted December 19, 2008 08:15 AM |
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Ghosts seems childish and silly to me. Of course there are things we have not discovered yet, but I dont think ghosts and supernatural things are one of them. The soul and ghosts etc fits great in fantasy worlds, but not in real life.
You are free to believe as you wish. My only reference on thinking they are quite real is my own experiences. Unfortunately they are not recreatable on demand, so I can understand others being skeptical.
Quote:
edit: I fail to see how empathy is something supernatural. Is a physlogial (spelling?) emotion.
I feel empathy a lot of times, like that girl in my grade that gets a bit bullied by the guys. I always try to cheer her up, but then again she is not so perfect and nice herself.
Feeling sorry for somebody is not supernatural, that is correct. Knowing before you are told, without witnessing anything, and not ever even having met the person what somebody feeling may be another thing entirely. Some people can 'read' people because they have been trained or are ultra observant, etc. I don't have to try, however. If somebody is feeling a strong emotion passes within a 100' feet of me, I know what they are feeling. Not why, and if there are a lot of people maybe not who, but WHAT.
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DagothGares
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posted December 19, 2008 09:45 AM |
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An empath is something I can believe in, though, perhaps that's just human nature or someone who's very social and can figure it out through either experience or because they are very, very emotional themselves.
Ghosts, however... Maybe, just maybe there are creatures beyond this physical plane, but then again, ghosts have been seen in this plane, so i'd much rather debunk the theory that our loved ones are still hovering around somewhere, flinging their arms to random passerbies. If they were just creaturtes who had little to nothing to do with human beings, I would receive it a lot more favourable. this is not because I am afraid that something like that would happen to me. It is the fact that people try to find solutions to life's mysteries in an easy fashion.
I don't know what'll happen, but I'd bet my left and right kneecaps that it's a tad more complicated than a spirit leaving your body and hovering around some place.
I'll continue later on, I have to go to school 
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TheDeath
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posted December 19, 2008 03:21 PM |
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"The truth that survives is simply the lie that is pleasantest to believe." - H.L.Mencken
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Totoro
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posted December 19, 2008 09:52 PM |
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Edited by Totoro at 21:57, 19 Dec 2008.
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Quote:
Define 'natural'. Is it something bound by mathematics? What is actually the need for something to be called 'natural', what?
In this context natural is something that can be explained with physics.
Quote:
All things have gravity. Its a ratio between the energetic fields produced by the minamal rotations of the electron fields of all things in existence. Its just that humans have gravity to the tenth decimal place...So, in essence, we know what gravity is.
Yeah, we know what it is but where does it come from?
Now, I don't want to make myself hear like some docent but I saw some document on TV or something which told about something about researchers searching for some gravity particles that could possible cause the gravity, but the existence of those has not been proven.
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DagothGares
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posted December 19, 2008 10:01 PM |
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Quote:
"The truth that survives is simply the lie that is pleasantest to believe." - H.L.Mencken
Cheap shot, death
Well, I think it'd be more pleasant to believe that your loved ones do float around here, so you can contact them through a telepath
You tell me what you think about it, huh? You yourself claim that lifelesness is an almost incomprehensible state of timelesness, so where does that leave time to float around?
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TheDeath
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posted December 19, 2008 11:08 PM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 23:09, 19 Dec 2008.
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Quote:
In this context natural is something that can be explained with physics.
Which is either:
1) Mathematically defined (through some function)
2) Based on some mathematical laws (follows a mathematical algorithm/pattern and satisfies conditions)
Ghosts COULD be based on mathematics, if that's what you mean by natural -- but that would be like trying to use mathematics to read a human's behavior. Either that, or humans are supernatural, which I doubt. (anyway it's just how you want to define it)
as for "gravity particles" well we don't know anything about reality -- we only have models: of the atom, of gravity, of fields... etc, which we use to approximate and predict stuff -- in short just a TOOL, not knowledge. A Tool. We use models, not reality itself.
so yeah, could be particles as far as we know.
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Totoro
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posted December 20, 2008 04:27 PM |
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Quote:
Which is either:
1) Mathematically defined (through some function)
2) Based on some mathematical laws (follows a mathematical algorithm/pattern and satisfies conditions)
both?
Quote:
as for "gravity particles" well we don't know anything about reality -- we only have models: of the atom, of gravity, of fields... etc, which we use to approximate and predict stuff -- in short just a TOOL, not knowledge. A Tool. We use models, not reality itself..
Most effective microscopes are actually able to see atoms. Once I saw some picture of gold atoms, they looked like blurry glowing bubbles.
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TheDeath
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posted December 20, 2008 10:42 PM |
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Quote:
both?
Problems:
1) we don't know ALL the laws, and it's unlikely we will.
2) some are just approximations/predictions. A prediction is a TOOL, not a truth. Like Planck said, we have no right to assume that they will exist in the future (Planck was famous physicist, best known for his Planck's constant)
and 3) that's kinda... short-sighted. I mean, with that definition even people who don't believe in ghosts have a strong belief in 'supernatural' stuff (i.e non-mathematical things, that is out of 'control' since we can't predict them well).
Also, keep in mind that humans, while they may be mathematical, can't be predicted with math (or if they can, it's truly complicated for us to predict, might be overwhelming equations we don't even know with too many variables). The idea is, why should ghosts be different? Why should we expect to predict ghost behavior while we don't even do it for humans?
And of course, we say humans are natural...
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Most effective microscopes are actually able to see atoms.
No they're not. They only see the fields around the atoms.
They are 'programmed' in a way to report those fields (which is displayed) -- doesn't mean you actually see the atoms themselves.
You can't "see" atoms with light because... they are the ones who 'generate' light (or absorb it, depending on the energy they receive).
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