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Geny
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted January 02, 2009 08:43 PM |
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Edited by Geny at 20:44, 02 Jan 2009.
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@TheDeath
Quote:
and in fact Israel expanded its borders in the 'meantime' (that means 50 or so years), so you can imagine it made them even more pissed.
Before we expanded, Palestine was a part of Egypt so they weren't pissed off at all back then. From what I understand when the peace treaty with Egypt was signed they didn't want Gaza back and ever since we've been stuck with a hostile population. We haven't expanded an inch since then and we recognized the right of a Palestinian country to exist, the HAMAS don't feel the same way about us.
@Father
lol.
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DagothGares
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No gods or kings
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posted January 03, 2009 12:31 AM |
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Oh and as far as 9/11 goes? Dear old Afghanistan is lucky to be there at all.
I say we rebuild the things...
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SwampLord
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Lord of the Swamp
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posted January 03, 2009 04:51 PM |
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So?
More innocnet palestians die then israelians.
Yes, but Israel has to do something. It's kind of hard for us who don't live in the region to really talk about this; if another European country started launching rockets at Sweden, or Canda at America, we'd be screaming bloody murder for our government to put a stop to it, not considering "well is this right?" It's all well and good to sit on our moral high horses here and judge both sides of the conflict, but I believe that without actually living there you can't really form a even remotely fair opinion on the issue. Our lives aren't under threat every day (speaking of both sides here, not just Israel) and we most likely have not had family killed by airstrikes or rockets. We can't know what it's like.
The main problem with this conflict is that it seems essentially unsolveable. The fact that it has continued on and off again for 50 years, and the at least mildly strong religious influences in the area, definitely aren't going to help either. Personally, I'm afraid that there can't really be an end to this.
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Geny
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted January 03, 2009 08:26 PM |
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The Israeli army has begone it's ground attack. The objective presented by the government are to change the situation in the South of Israel and to temporarily seize the areas from which most of the rockets were fired. The attack is planned to get more and more powerful with time (as is the whole operation), but also can be easily stopped at any step should a diplomatic solution arise.
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mvassilev
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posted January 03, 2009 08:28 PM |
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It's bad that things had to go so far, but I'm glad that Israel is taking greater action.
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Eccentric Opinion
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antipaladin
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posted January 03, 2009 10:03 PM |
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Quote:
The Israeli army has begone it's ground attack. The objective presented by the government are to change the situation in the South of Israel and to temporarily seize the areas from which most of the rockets were fired. The attack is planned to get more and more powerful with time (as is the whole operation), but also can be easily stopped at any step should a diplomatic solution arise.
there is high tension in the north border.
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TheDeath
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posted January 03, 2009 10:16 PM |
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Quote:
It's bad that things had to go so far, but I'm glad that Israel is taking greater action.
I'm not.
Diplomatic 'action' or 'discussion' probably would get ignored and propaganda spread if it isn't favorable to Israel.
What exactly do they want to accomplish?
As it has been said, many civilians were suicide bombers. And what will this do to stop them? Unless of course, you mean kill them all. As in all civilians...
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mvassilev
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posted January 03, 2009 10:31 PM |
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Okay, think about this. Let's say your dad broke into someone's house, beat the owner and his wife up, and stuffed them in the attic. Then he started living in the house, and brought his own family in. Whenever the guy would try to break out of the attic, your dad would beat him up.
Some years pass, and now you are living in that house, and the original owner's kid is living in the attic. Neither of you had anything to do with your dads' conflicts. But then the attic guy's kid comes out of the attic and points a gun at you, and says, "Get out." Should you?
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TheDeath
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posted January 03, 2009 10:36 PM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 22:36, 03 Jan 2009.
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I'll try to sort it out, and yes, I would probably get out, since I am not that selfish. That guy was in the attic. My life might be screwed by moving out from the house, but what about that guy?
Obviously I would try to be reasonable first, to give me some time to move out etc... or probably live with him 
and most certainly, if he starts shooting, going after his family and killing everyone ain't the solution.
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mvassilev
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posted January 03, 2009 10:38 PM |
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I would say, "Dude. It's not your house. I'm sorry about what my dad did to your dad, but it's not my fault, so you have no right to punish me for it."
And if he starts shooting, I'll shoot back.
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TheDeath
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posted January 03, 2009 10:43 PM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 22:45, 03 Jan 2009.
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Because you're selfish. And he has no "right" is subjective. What if the law passed the blame from your ancestors? Just like inheritance you know... I kinda find it flawed that we only inherit the good things, while we don't inherit the blame.
What if daddy was in debt? Are you not forced to pay for him?
On the other hand, we can blame germans for having nazi 'ancestors'.
Further, it should be reasonable of course. Not blaming you for your dad's worth, but you WILL have to PAY the debt, even if you don't like it. But blaming you for your daddy's actions isn't good. It's just that some things, you gotta do.
I know it may not seem fair, but think of the guy's situation: it isn't fair in his point either.
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GenieLord
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posted January 03, 2009 11:00 PM |
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Quote:
Okay, think about this. Let's say your dad broke into someone's house, beat the owner and his wife up, and stuffed them in the attic. Then he started living in the house, and brought his own family in. Whenever the guy would try to break out of the attic, your dad would beat him up.
Some years pass, and now you are living in that house, and the original owner's kid is living in the attic. Neither of you had anything to do with your dads' conflicts. But then the attic guy's kid comes out of the attic and points a gun at you, and says, "Get out." Should you?
So you're suggesting that Israel was in the hands of the Palestinians before we came? 
First of all, there were no 'Palestinians' then. It's a new name given to them. They were called 'Arabs'.
'Palestina' was the name of the area, given to it by the Romans, 2000 years ago.
There were only a few tens of thousands of Arabs in 1917, when UK got control of the zone in order to help in the progres of establishing a state for the Jews (according to the Balfour Declaration). Arabs from many other countries came to Israel in order to prevent UK from fulfulling this concept of a Jewish state in the area.
-That house didn't belong the man it was "taken" from.
-That house was promised to the man who took it by the true owner of the house (UK).
-The actual onwer of the house got the place to help getting the man into there.
-When the man decided to use it's legal right and get control of the house, the man who
Palestinians had NEVER had the area, they had never had any interest to be the rulers of the area before it was promised to be given to the Jews by UK.
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mvassilev
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posted January 03, 2009 11:02 PM |
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Hey, if I had two houses, then I'd give him that house. But if it's my only house, then...
And rights do not come from the law. They come from a gradually progressing and developing social contract that the law attempts to codify.
And, as I have told you before, I am on the fence about inheritance.
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Geny
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted January 03, 2009 11:06 PM |
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Quote:
On the other hand, we can blame germans for having nazi 'ancestors'.
Who said we can?
As for the debt to be paid, there's such a thing called a 'compromise'. As in "I lived in this house for my whole life and I will not move out, but I understand your situation and will help you lead a better life in the attic (or help you move out if you prefer)." But if he starts to demand more and with a gun in his hand no less, I would take out my own gun.
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mvassilev
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posted January 03, 2009 11:08 PM |
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GenieLord:
So when the Arabs heard that the Jews were coming, they all swarmed into Palestine? Where did all of them come from all of a sudden?
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antipaladin
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posted January 03, 2009 11:15 PM |
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after the war of indepdences,many palastinen tried to refuge in syria,lebnon egypt,but they didn't let them in...
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TheDeath
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posted January 03, 2009 11:16 PM |
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Quote:
Who said we can?
No I meant if you followed my logic in that example, so I outlined the negative effects  (but also positive, such as the "pay the debt of your dad", which must be done; you may not like it, but what about the one who gave your dad the money?)
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Geny
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted January 03, 2009 11:18 PM |
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GenieLord
Honorable
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posted January 03, 2009 11:42 PM |
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Quote:
GenieLord:
So when the Arabs heard that the Jews were coming, they all swarmed into Palestine? Where did all of them come from all of a sudden?
Egypt, Suria, Iraq, Hashemian (Jordan), Lebanon, Saudia, and there was another one.
And after Israel had declared indepedence (1948) all these states sent armies to attack Israel (overall 7).
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mvassilev
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posted January 04, 2009 12:36 AM |
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Why did they all swarm into Israel? What was so great about it all of a sudden?
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