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| Thread: Logic - Solution or Problem |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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sith_of_ziost
Promising
Supreme Hero
Scouting the Multiverse
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posted March 10, 2009 12:49 AM |
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Poll Question:
Logic - Solution or Problem
This poll starts ongoing project to discover the attitude of HC toward various subjects. They will be posted mostly montly, but occasionally biweekly.
I roughly ask "What do you think logic is?" I want to know your standing on how logic can be used and the extent to which it can solve your problems. Some questions:
- Can logic solve every problem fairly?
- At what point does logic become insufficient, or when it becomes completely ineffecitve?
- Does intuition stem from inner logic, or does it reside in our minds to tell us what can be done about something?
Plainly, what's your logic?
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 10, 2009 12:59 AM |
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Logic can solve everything, but sometimes intuition acts as a useful shortcut. At other times, though, it's misleading.
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mamgaeater
Legendary Hero
Shroud, Flying, Trample, Haste
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posted March 10, 2009 01:05 AM |
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well they are better at solving problems than violence.
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TheDeath
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with serious business
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posted March 10, 2009 01:11 AM |
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Logic is useful, but it's just a tool of reason. As a programmer I have to say, logic by itself doesn't always yield good results. I'm not talking about intuition as a "shortcut" at all. I'm talking about creativity (I'm not talking about art either, but about e.g: algorithm design!). Logic by itself leads you to "obvious" or "straight" solutions. Weird, strange, and most times, 'better' algorithms always REQUIRE intuition. Simply put: you have to do it in an 'unconventional' way.
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sith_of_ziost
Promising
Supreme Hero
Scouting the Multiverse
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posted March 10, 2009 02:30 AM |
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So, you say that logic forms the basis, but intuition moves it along. Like a symbiotic circle, one feeds the other.
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Miru
Supreme Hero
A leaf in the river of time
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posted March 10, 2009 03:03 AM |
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Edited by Miru at 03:04, 10 Mar 2009.
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I see two interpretations:
Heuristic vs. Systematic
And Reason vs. Emotion
Heuristics don't always work but it's good to try them first because they're a lot faster.
Reason (if done properly) will always get you what is correct. Emotion won't have you doing the correct thing, but without it there is no motivation.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted March 10, 2009 03:33 AM |
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Logic solves everything except art related. Art is feeling. Feeling is not logical. Man is an artwork. Thus it is not the logic which will make him immortal, but his feelings and the ability to express them in an optimal way. Logic is the weapon of sterile people who think they understood things, while they just pass away without touching their essence.
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sith_of_ziost
Promising
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posted March 10, 2009 03:59 AM |
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Hm, that's an interesting point Salamandre, and your deduction is very good.
I believe logic can be the thing to fall back on when all else fails and should be the backbone of an argument, to say logos over ethos. And I like the fact that you all don't ignore it, just believing that it is a part of it.
Quote:
Logic is the weapon of sterile people who think they understood things
This is where I disagree. Logic is a potent weapon against every situation. When the feelings cloud the judgment, reasoning goes straight out the window. Basically put, emotion isn't reasonable. But emotion can be harnessed, too, like logic, and put forth toward a cause. Logical thought paired with controlled feeling and empathy can create an inpenetrable solution.
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Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted March 10, 2009 07:59 AM |
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I'm not quite sure how you are defining intuition. But as I iterpret it, intuition or a "gut feeling" should override logic in almost all cases.
Normally logic and intuition don't conflict, but when they do, intuition wins.
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Salamandre
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Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted March 10, 2009 01:21 PM |
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Quote:
This is where I disagree. Logic is a potent weapon against every situation. When the feelings cloud the judgment, reasoning goes straight out the window. Basically put, emotion isn't reasonable. But emotion can be harnessed, too, like logic, and put forth toward a cause. Logical thought paired with controlled feeling and empathy can create an inpenetrable solution.
A potent weapon yes, but still a sterile one, being strongly reduced by our (in)ability to operate with abstract concepts. While our sensitivity, sensibility and intuition are only being limited by our short life (and by our overrated logic also).
Don't be so proud because you got how much 2+2 is resulting. Now the eternal dilemma should be to find what 4 is representing.
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angelito
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posted March 10, 2009 03:26 PM |
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Logic is the reason why the comp player always looses vs most of the human players...
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted March 10, 2009 03:59 PM |
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Logic is something most people could benefit from using more often. An accurate assessment of a given situation, seeing a pattern, solving problems, understanding a meaning are some of the things I have in mind when I hear logic.
But logic is tied to our human minds and therefore limited, we often make wrong deductions when we do not have all the clues we need or we are missing something we aren't even aware of. There are so many things beyond our understanding and applying logic with what we have right now can only get us that far.
Intuition is not necessarily tied to logic, for whatever reason you have a feeling of how things will come to be even if you have not done the math or examined it carefully. Can be experience, advanced thinking patterns, maybe a feeling but you happen to have a better understanding of the situation. Some people seem to have a gift for predicting things and I do not mean prophets and astrologers.
When logic starts becoming a liability? Hard to tell, so many things to take into account and a touch of chaos that touches our lives. The same action can lead to good or bad if a tiny detail changes. Being more of a feeler than a thinker I value my emotions even if I lace them with a dose of cold thinking at times. In the end it's not about being the most efficient but also enjoying your life. Man does not live with water and bread alone, he needs more and logic would often have you bide your time, avoid risks.
There is also the matter of thinking too much - the more you think the more likely you are vulnerable to your own misguided suggestions, foolish thoughts, insecurities. Do you really care to explain everything by logic and if so is it going to really help you? 2 + 2 may equal 4 but a logical argument doesn't necessarily lead to a logical conclusion for reasons mentioned above.
Then there is the matter of how it affects people around you. You may think you know the best course for others but it's not really your job to take action for them, people live their lives by choice and that is not yours to make. And those who consider themselves very logical people often have that flaw. Or what is the point of always proving yourself right? That eventually alienates people.
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Salamandre
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Wog refugee
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posted March 10, 2009 04:28 PM |
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Quote:
Logic is the reason why the comp player always looses vs most of the human players...
No, the AI logic was bad/not enough programmed. Logic is the reason why the last Bluedeep always wins against human players.
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Asheera
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posted March 10, 2009 04:35 PM |
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Are you talking about Deep Blue? Because that one has a huge database of moves in every possible situation, I wouldn't call that logic.
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TheDeath
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posted March 10, 2009 04:39 PM |
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Deep Blue doesn't "think", it's just like an encyclopedia of possible moves. That has nothing to do with logic, apart from knowing what to look up.
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Salamandre
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posted March 10, 2009 04:40 PM |
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Yes, but it does not choose randomly the next move from a database. It suits a pure logic algorithm.
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TheDeath
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posted March 10, 2009 04:43 PM |
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I don't know. Of course it doesn't choose randomly, it chooses the closest match in the database (simple interpolation so to speak). Don't get me wrong, it's not intuition either.
How do you call people who appear to know everything but in reality they don't know anything if you take away their encyclopedia? Rote memorization?
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Salamandre
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posted March 10, 2009 05:21 PM |
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Lord_Woock
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posted March 10, 2009 07:50 PM |
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Logic may not solve everything, but it's still awesome 
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TheDeath
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posted March 10, 2009 08:19 PM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 20:33, 10 Mar 2009.
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