|
| Thread: OpenHeroes (VCMI + Horn of the Abyss + ? ) |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · «PREV |
|
valgaav
Adventuring Hero
|
posted April 14, 2009 01:22 AM |
|
|
To answer the questions :
1) Vcmi will not be muliplayer only.
2) Vcmi is not using any h3 code or binary aside from graphics. So yes AI for vcmi will be written from scratch.
|
|
ZombieBear
Hired Hero
|
|
posted April 22, 2009 02:26 AM |
|
|
I've been peeking at VCMI and following HotA and my simplified observation, unless I'm wrong, is this: HotA is a great project tweaking and using the current H3 source code. The team said they are able to work around some of the limitations it has, obviously since they're bringing in new towns.
VCMI is a great project which is rewriting the code mostly from scratch so that there are little or no limitations, making it easier for future modders to add to the game.
Fantastic, I can't wait. But, DO NOT MIX THE PROJECTS (yet). Why? Because neither projects are complete yet. Suddenly trying to merge two separate, independent, distanced groups when neither team is finished (with at least a beta version) is only going to cause unnecessary problems and will likely consume more time than it saves.
Follow me on this. 3DO makes Homm3. Slava and his team create WoG AddOn. However, Slava didn't have a second independent AddOn team creating their own AddOn at the same time as his. His team was able to focus it's language, efforts, and teamwork (teamwork is key word here) to creating a great AddOn as efficiently and in as timely a fashion as possible. Now there's HotA and VCMI going at the same time, we have two groups here. I believe if you try and merge the two, there will be longer communication times, make it harder to plan teamwork, cooperate programming, just take longer in general all in an effort to try to save a little time, which it wouldn't.
Basically, I say let each team work out their projects individually. If VCMI is what I think it is, the VCMI team should have no more problems modding original HoMM3 and WoG than they would with HotA, right?
VCMI is supposed to grant power and freedom, right?
So let the HotA team work on its own. When HotA is released and expands HoMM3, VCMI can then come in and use their ideas ONCE IT'S FINISHED, just like WoG and HoMM3, which coincidentally are also finished projects.  An analogy would be like making a cheeseburger. HotA is the meat, VCMI is all the fixings, but neither are finished. You're suggesting putting together the burger and then finish cooking it? Sure it's plausible, but less effective than if the meat is cooked first and then made complete second.
Ultimately I think we would all like WoG and HotA and VCMI to all be together in glorious harmony, but it just won't work well until we have some finished projects. Yes, I DO want HotA and VCMI to be together, but mixing their teams isn't the answer right now.
I also shun the thought that somehow these new mods would "be played for 5 - 6 months and then be forgotten." ...What? I've been playing HoMM3 since it came out in '99 and have only loved it more and become more into it because of WoG. Heroes already has phenomenal replay value, and projects like these bring new life to the game that can be enjoyed forever. I still play Tetris. I still play Mario Party. I sitll play Heroes, alone and with friends who also still play.
|
|
ZombieBear
Hired Hero
|
|
posted April 22, 2009 12:35 PM |
|
|
I know VCMI is supsoed to have freedon when it comes to Heroes 3, but I'd like to ask a few questions anyway, maybe give me and others an idea about what it's capable of.
1. In terms of online and network multiplayer, will it be possible to implement a better turn-wait system? Right now it's just a black screen and besides checking out your kingdom screen, all you do is wait for your turn, sometimes for half an hour. Would VCMI be able to introduce something fun to do while waiting, like the ghost world from Heroes 5? Also, I'd like to be able to play Network battles without any in-game option limitations.
2. Could VCMI change the battle system to something more along the lines of the battle system in HoMM V? I don't particularly dislike HoMM III's battle system, but I do think 5's is more evolved and better all around. I noticed a turn bar at the top of the battle screen.
3. Could Mythril be added to the resource bar at the bottom? Looks like it has a lot of room given that new resolution.
|
|
valgaav
Adventuring Hero
|
|
posted April 27, 2009 12:31 PM |
|
Edited by valgaav at 12:35, 27 Apr 2009.
|
Quote:
Basically, I say let each team work out their projects individually. If VCMI is what I think it is, the VCMI team should have no more problems modding original HoMM3 and WoG than they would with HotA, right?
VCMI is supposed to grant power and freedom, right?
So let the HotA team work on its own. When HotA is released and expands HoMM3, VCMI can then come in and use their ideas ONCE IT'S FINISHED, just like WoG and HoMM3, which coincidentally are also finished projects. An analogy would be like making a cheeseburger. HotA is the meat, VCMI is all the fixings, but neither are finished. You're suggesting putting together the burger and then finish cooking it? Sure it's plausible, but less effective than if the meat is cooked first and then made complete second.
Well that is not all that correct ... For example: HotA adds creatures to original h3 towns which in open game will have to be changed to neutrals? or moved to other castles? Same with skill system/magic system ... HoTa is limited by the original ones while they could make their own ones.
Vcmi on the other hand tries to be a h3 engine too much at times. Example: a discussion on getting the exact % chances of heroes to get the numbers of starting creatures ... Going so deep into copying HoMM is IMHO ridiculous.
So what I want to say is when you know you are going to do your own game from scratch the decisions and things you will do will be different then when you do a MOD or an engine for an already existing game.
Waiting for first playable (doesn't mean completed) vcmi version and first HoTA beta (with the first town) is a good solution, but waiting for both projects to release complete versions is IMHO a bad move that delays or even puts a big question mark on any standalone openheroes game.
Quote:
1. In terms of online and network multiplayer, will it be possible to implement a better turn-wait system?
Simultanous turns are planned aside from that anything is possible, though first vcmi will have to have networking code at all  (there are some works on that ATM).
Quote:
2. Could VCMI change the battle system to something more along the lines of the battle system in HoMM V? I don't particularly dislike HoMM III's battle system, but I do think 5's is more evolved and better all around. I noticed a turn bar at the top of the battle screen.
All nice things like knowing what creature will go after you, how much damage you will deal and will you get a retaliation attack are already planned or already done ...
Quote:
3. Could Mythril be added to the resource bar at the bottom? Looks like it has a lot of room given that new resolution.
Code is open so yeah it can be added... anything is possible with an open code
|
|
Ednaguy
Supreme Hero
My water just broke! No, wait.
|
|
posted April 27, 2009 03:33 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
2. Could VCMI change the battle system to something more along the lines of the battle system in HoMM V? I don't particularly dislike HoMM III's battle system, but I do think 5's is more evolved and better all around. I noticed a turn bar at the top of the battle screen.
All nice things like knowing what creature will go after you, how much damage you will deal and will you get a retaliation attack are already planned or already done ...
Are you planning a initiative-like system, or will the old speed system stay?
____________
"Edna, there's a special, tiny, tiny place in hell, waiting just for you... "
|
|
valgaav
Adventuring Hero
|
|
posted April 29, 2009 12:03 PM |
|
Edited by valgaav at 12:04, 29 Apr 2009.
|
right now it's speed system ... though you have one misconception about VCMI, Vcmi is not a game it's an engine. So while the speed system is default in the future there may be some alternatives "build in" in the engine and enabled by options in txt files. Right now the priority is to get all the features of h3 and some obvious adjustments...
BTW I'm not a developer of Vcmi though I do have some knowledge about the project.
|
|
Alustor
Famous Hero
ooo da :)
|
|
posted April 30, 2009 02:20 PM |
|
|
|
this thread is useless.vcmi allready has a thread here on hc and all things about it should be posted there.as for hota + vcmi...NVERE GONNA HAPPEN;hota si a wog mod,while vcmi recreates wog;it's a game engine
|
|
valgaav
Adventuring Hero
|
|
posted May 01, 2009 10:43 AM |
|
|
Quote:
this thread is useless.vcmi allready has a thread here on hc and all things about it should be posted there.as for hota + vcmi...NVERE GONNA HAPPEN;hota si a wog mod,while vcmi recreates wog;it's a game engine
So .. I'm not getting your point ? It's possible to combine vcmi and hota,so why is it "never gonna happen" ... It may happen and can.
Generally this thread is also about creating a free STANDALONE open source heroeslike game, instead of bringing mods to good but 10 year old HoMM. I would really hope to see some discussion on that.
|
|
Alustor
Famous Hero
ooo da :)
|
|
posted May 01, 2009 01:24 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
this thread is useless.vcmi allready has a thread here on hc and all things about it should be posted there.as for hota + vcmi...NVERE GONNA HAPPEN;hota si a wog mod,while vcmi recreates wog;it's a game engine
So .. I'm not getting your point ? It's possible to combine vcmi and hota,so why is it "never gonna happen" ... It may happen and can.
Generally this thread is also about creating a free STANDALONE open source heroeslike game, instead of bringing mods to good but 10 year old HoMM. I would really hope to see some discussion on that.
you're not getting my point...vcmi will combine with EVERY mod after it will be done.it's their support just like h3 it s to wog.
as for a free STANDALONE open source..that's what vcmi is so stuf like that should be talked on that thread
|
|
valgaav
Adventuring Hero
|
|
posted May 01, 2009 01:31 PM |
|
Edited by valgaav at 13:38, 01 May 2009.
|
Vcmi is an open source engine, not a game... Vcmi uses heroes 3 graphics so it's not a standalone free open source game.... You have to have the original HoMM 3 to play it. That's the point I'm trying to make in this topic in my first post. Combine HoTA+ VCMI and you can get standalone game without a need of HoMM3 copyrighted files (albeit with a lot of other graphic work left to do for menus/icons/map object)
This threat was supposed to sparkle such an project. A standalone project not tainted by copyrighted HoMM3 graphics ... A standalone game you can freely download from the net.
|
|
Alustor
Famous Hero
ooo da :)
|
|
posted May 01, 2009 02:05 PM |
|
|
|
this will take alot of time,if i m right slava tried to make smth like this and quitted the project.i don t think that anyone will ever make smth like this without having some profit
|
|
kesnar
Famous Hero
from Kesnaria
|
|
posted May 01, 2009 02:09 PM |
|
Edited by kesnar at 14:10, 01 May 2009.
|
Ermmm...yeah right...that's why there are so many open source games...don't talk about programms generally...
____________
|
|
valgaav
Adventuring Hero
|
|
posted May 01, 2009 04:51 PM |
|
Edited by valgaav at 16:52, 01 May 2009.
|
Quote:
this will take alot of time,if i m right slava tried to make smth like this and quitted the project.i don t think that anyone will ever make smth like this without having some profit
To give you just one example :
http://www.wesnoth.org/
If I wanted to I could spam you a whole page of links to the rest of open source games I have played and consider fun.
|
|
Alustor
Famous Hero
ooo da :)
|
|
posted May 01, 2009 11:28 PM |
|
Edited by Alustor at 23:29, 01 May 2009.
|
youd can edit your post and post them 
|
|
Shihad
Tavern Dweller
|
|
posted May 09, 2009 11:23 PM |
|
Edited by Cepheus at 17:21, 23 Jul 2011.
|
HotA + CoreWog towns + VCMI = open-source Heroes. easily modified.
It'll be a dream, summertime dream... And Docent Picolan, HotA coordinator are capable to make the dream true. as I understand.
---
Moderator note: This thread has been inactive for two years or longer, and has been archived (closed) to prevent necro-posting. If you wish to revive the topic, send a message to Cepheus or create a new thread in its place. Thank you.
____________
|
| |
|
|
