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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted April 14, 2009 01:17 PM |
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Nope, Dumbledore knew about it.
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted April 14, 2009 01:19 PM |
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Edited by Azagal at 13:24, 14 Apr 2009.
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Please...
How is "most cases" different from the night? It's not like Voldemort wouldn't have killed if she'd given him her son (=not sacrificed herself). For sacrifice you need to have the option to live on. She clearly didn't have that.
And you don't believe that Voldemort didn't play cat and mouse with his pray with others before do you? He's a sadist.
woaw lots of interesting views here...
Quote:
You forget, it was stated that Harry's parents were two of the worlds strongest next to Voldy.
Worlds strongest? Where exactly is that said? They were above average, good, very talented, yeah. But worlds strongest? Horrible exaggeration? We have people like the Longbottoms who also are very skilled mages but that doesn't make them monsters.
And I thought it was explicitly stated in the book that Harry wasn't protected by a spell and that it's simply love. That's why Voldemort was making such a fuzz about it.
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted April 14, 2009 01:24 PM |
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Edited by Mytical at 13:26, 14 Apr 2009.
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Guess the mother and father being two of the strongest wizards of their time..strong enough that Voldy set out to kill them before they could take him down ... doesn't fly huh?
Edit : Guess I will have to read the books again, because I am sure they were mentioned as the two strongest at the time.
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Message received.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted April 14, 2009 01:25 PM |
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Love anti-death spell deflector shield 
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted April 14, 2009 01:29 PM |
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It was love that prevented a death spell from one of the most powerful wizards? O-M-G. You people read some weird stuff 
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted April 14, 2009 01:31 PM |
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Edited by Azagal at 13:35, 14 Apr 2009.
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@Mytical
Doesn't fly at all. Voldemort killed everything that obosed him on sight. Voldemort killed them like he'd kill every other member of the Order of the Phoenix (everyone in that organisation was. Just check them out. Moody greatest darkmage hunter there was, Lumpin, Sirius, etc. etc.). The Potters were certainly good mages but nothing so exceptional that Voldemort needed to finish them off personaly (then again if he wouldn't the story would kind of not work ). And it's not stated anywhere in the book that they're the worlds strongest. Not anything close to such a statement.
I think it's one thing to apreciate a good book but it's another one to just defend everthing blindly because the book is too good to have faults. Of course vigorously searching for a few mistakes in order to blow them out of proportion is kinda silly aswell (not saying that that's what you're doing doomie). Just enjoy the book for what it is, nothing is perfect after all (except Dominosteine ).
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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Ednaguy
Supreme Hero
My water just broke! No, wait.
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posted April 14, 2009 01:36 PM |
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Quote:
Please...
How is "most cases" different from the night? It's not like Voldemort wouldn't have killed if she'd given him her son (=not sacrificed herself). For sacrifice you need to have the option to live on. She clearly didn't have that.
She had, haven't you read the last book?
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"Edna, there's a special, tiny, tiny place in hell, waiting just for you... "
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted April 14, 2009 01:39 PM |
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Actually I forgot that part. What does it say?
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Ednaguy
Supreme Hero
My water just broke! No, wait.
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posted April 14, 2009 01:43 PM |
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Edited by Ednaguy at 13:47, 14 Apr 2009.
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That Snape loved Lily, and he asked Voldy to not kill Lily, and since Snape was important for Voldy, Voldemort wouldn't kill her unless she came in his way.
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"Edna, there's a special, tiny, tiny place in hell, waiting just for you... "
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted April 14, 2009 01:52 PM |
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I have read the book but are you sure you understood it?
"Voldemort wouldn't kill her unless she came in his way"
Ehm... no? How much exactly does Voldemort care for his fellow man? That's right not at all. He killed Snape without as much as even flinching when he wanted that Elder Wand (he did so in vain actually^^). You think that guy would as much as even consider (let's not even think about respecting) a wish one of his (better) peons utters ?
Apart from that... it still doesn't equal a choice on Lillies side. She didn't knew all that. To her the guy who killed hundreds of people, blew up her house and killed her husband was standing in front of her wanting to kill her son... it's not the kind of guy I'd believe when he'd say "If you give me your son you'll live". Come on... so she had no choice whatsoever.
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted April 14, 2009 01:56 PM |
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You could argue it was the intent
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted April 14, 2009 02:00 PM |
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You missunderstand Elvin. Of course it's the intent. It's exactly what creates the plothole. It's about pointing out the error in Ednas argument:
Quote:
In most cases Voldy didn't give anyone the choice to live, so no one ever got the chance to sacrifice themselves for their kids, since they'd die anyway 
Mission complete.
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted April 14, 2009 02:06 PM |
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Quote:
First harry and crew are not your ordinary children, and Dumbledor (Spelling) is still one of the strongest wizards at the time. He also had faith in Harry.
What's faith in Harry supposed to do with the pitiful excuse for security system he installed?
As for the death deflector spell, you guys keep coming with more and more fun explanations. Funny since there is almost no info on it in the book But hell, keep trying. Ok, bike time. See you in the evening, oh, and sorry again for no update @_o
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Galev
Famous Hero
Galiv :D
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posted April 14, 2009 02:17 PM |
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Quote:
In most cases Voldy didn't give anyone the choice to live, so no one ever got the chance to sacrifice themselves for their kids, since they'd die anyway
And THAT'S what I wanted to say as well. The choice! choice is crucial. Dumby says in book2: "It's our choices not our talents..." or sg. similar.
Though it is still fishy that nobody ever got the chance.... But who cares?
I don't want to defend JKR or HP anyway, I just had too much free time once more. But it's over
All right, good book-burning for you. 
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted April 14, 2009 02:24 PM |
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And if you'd have enough time to spare you'd found out that the choice (crucial as it may be) is not existing.
This is not a book-burning. It's merely discussion an exchange of views.
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 14, 2009 02:27 PM |
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RTI:
Think of it this way: when he's going back in time, he's not really going back in time, but going to a place that is exactly like the time he's traveling to, except for one thing - he's there. Simply by being there, even if he doesn't kill or even talk to anyone, he's disrupting things. So instead of thinking of it like this:
Past -> Present -> Past -> Present
think of it like this:
Past -> Present -> Near Future (that looks like Past) -> More Distant Future (that may look like Present)
I don't mean that there's a number of different universes - it's all one universe, but time travel causes the time continuum to have a coil of some sort in it instead of just being a straight line. That is, say you were to time travel to yesterday. You wouldn't actually go to yesterday, but to yesterday 2.
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Eccentric Opinion
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phoenixreborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
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posted April 14, 2009 02:29 PM |
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Harry's mother's love protecting him has less to do with magic and more to do with a literary metaphor. This isn't LOTR it is a children's book.
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Bask in the light of my glorious shining unicorn.
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phoenixreborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
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posted April 14, 2009 03:06 PM |
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Quote:
It's not true that all Fantasy novels approach magic in an illogical way. Ummm... Actually... there aren't all that many.
@RTI there are tons of books that have a good magic system. Off the top of my head the 'death gate cycle' (check your hcm I wrote to you about it), Salvatore's gemstones series, the series by Lynn Hardy that starts with Master of the Five Magics etc.
You kids these days, too many video games, not enough reading.
@Doomforge What I'm trying to say is that your efforts at charting plot loopholes is commendable. I wouldn't have spent the effort, it is plain to see, nor would I spend as much time arguing with opponents when the source material proves it.
Eventually you should try to take off the plot critic hat and put on a different hat, look from a different view. You can ask questions like:
What does Harry Potter teach us about the British school system?
Do I really want my kids to read this satanic, heathen book?
There's a series by Robert Aspirin the M.Y.T.H INC. series that is filled with plot holes and nonsensical magic intentionally because it is a parody of books like Harry Potter. There's more than one way to skin a cat. (I'd recommend those books by the way, some are funny).
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Bask in the light of my glorious shining unicorn.
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Ednaguy
Supreme Hero
My water just broke! No, wait.
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posted April 14, 2009 07:17 PM |
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Quote:
How much exactly does Voldemort care for his fellow man? That's right not at all.
Voldemort might be evil, but he's not stupid, and he'd know that killing Lilyl would have an effect on Snape. And you know what Snape did after Voldemort killed her, right? If Voldemort had stunned Lily and just taken Harry from her instead then Snape wouldn't have changed alliance, and the outcome of the story would have changed drastically.
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"Edna, there's a special, tiny, tiny place in hell, waiting just for you... "
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lucky_dwarf
Promising
Supreme Hero
Visiting
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posted April 14, 2009 11:18 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
How much exactly does Voldemort care for his fellow man? That's right not at all.
Voldemort might be evil, but he's not stupid, and he'd know that killing Lilyl would have an effect on Snape. And you know what Snape did after Voldemort killed her, right? If Voldemort had stunned Lily and just taken Harry from her instead then Snape wouldn't have changed alliance, and the outcome of the story would have changed drastically.
i agree
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So much has changed in my absence.
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