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| Thread: ToH Arena Tournament - Reports and Rankings |  This thread is pages long: 1 10 ... 15 16 17 18 19 ... 20 30 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted June 02, 2009 08:55 PM |
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Basically Towerlord has the mentality to win regardless of what he gets and he pretty much does that too. If something doesn't work you make it work 
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted June 02, 2009 09:04 PM |
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Edited by Jinxer at 21:05, 02 Jun 2009.
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Forgot to mention.. no Slow offered either.
The concept of arena is Brilliant.. Just this map is not complete. Need to add a Spell shop in all areas some extra resources for all... 3 major 3 Minor 1 Relic for each. And couple level 1 & 2 Shrines
Then the battle would be more decided on players abilities and not on chance.
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted June 02, 2009 09:11 PM |
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Jinxer you don`t have the ability nor it does suit you to think. This game is not for you... Maybe you can try pac-man Just admit that you simply suck at heroes.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted June 02, 2009 09:30 PM |
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You can't say that lack of spells has been overlooked, races have spell stones to learn what they might have missed.. But it's too random, you often need to invest 5k or more there 
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Towerlord
Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
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posted June 02, 2009 09:47 PM |
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The truth is, I remember I had a similar problem as Jinxer in first tournament, in the same match-up(I think vs Natalka), cause guild was quite evil to me... very disputed game, but in the end, I lost it, cause I lacked the skill I have now and also lacked the spells that would win it for me without the skill I have now  .
The thing is, if map is overloaded with goodies, result will be even more dependant on luck... For instance, at the moment getting two items from the same set makes a huge difference in games, and in an even situation it can move balance towards the side that has them. If there are plenty of artifacts on map, the side that gets the good ones will have big advantage, at least right now that advantage is balanced by the loss of money...
Also having spell shops for all, would put orcs at great disadvantage... as they would have to face the danger of Dark in any match-up, and that would kill them.
Keep in mind that even with the worst mage guild, you can always get some great spells like Fire Warriors and Mass Haste from skills 
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted June 02, 2009 09:52 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 21:54, 02 Jun 2009.
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Quote:
Also having spell shops for all, would put orcs at great disadvantage... as they would have to face the danger of Dark in any match-up, and that would kill them.
Not true, just give them all resources except mercury. It's only dark that can be game-breaking after all.
I am also against extra artifacts. I used that on my map and it inserted imbalances like sylvan getting 21 attack or necro 28 spellpower WITH elemental arties. Or of course getting 4 dragon arties.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted June 02, 2009 11:01 PM |
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Edited by Jinxer at 23:06, 02 Jun 2009.
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Well live and learn.. I have learned that I hate arena.. its not the kinda heroes I have come to understand and love. Some people like it and do well at it. Everyone is entitled to there opinion.. I respect those players that can do well under these circumstances... Just like some players do better at PUTT-PUTT Golf then Regular Golf. 
But Tower...no matter how confident you are in your arena mechanics.. there is no way you can win with the necro setup I had vs that Orc setup . Maybe there are some occasions when its possible to beat Orcs without Dark.. but unlike the way you make it sound.. skill does not overcome luck "everytime" in respect to this arena setup sometimes.
I now understand Elit and Infinitus point of view to a SMALL degree where banning stuff ties the hands and limits the depth to this DEEP game. And arena puts way way to many limits to have the ultimate true balance.
Thanks for the oppurtunity to experience this tourny tho..
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Strider_HL
Famous Hero
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posted June 02, 2009 11:11 PM |
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Statistics laugh at criticism of arena - there surely must be a logical reason why the same people win and others lose on regular basis. Jinx is right about importance of luck factor - it is especially annoying in match-ups of equal opponents. Yet, don't confuse single bout with the win-loss ratio over large number of observations
As for changes to the map... there could always be small improvements but then again several of already implemented are disputable. Tower is proud of his amendments to this arena version but, for instance, removal of word of light has a nasty side effect of always having resurrection (academy with motw, sylvan resurrection frenzy). In other words, be careful what you wish for as at this stage of arena development every "cure" has its considerable "allergy". 
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feluniozbunio
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted June 02, 2009 11:19 PM |
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Spell stones S**K donkey B***S , thats my 2 cents about spell stones.
If anything academy should be boosted , not nerfed, - good you got always rez for them.
Jinxer, you tpercieve arena like all people some time ago percieve poker - its all luck. But when same people are winning over and over some smarter people started to think that there might be a pattern behind it
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infinitus
Supreme Hero
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posted June 02, 2009 11:25 PM |
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Jinxer, it's time to make your own arena Don't think current arena is only way to go, this map represent taste of some people not ultimate balance ... Reality offer infinite number of possibilities...
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Nothing's impossible
http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=loCSLJ6IodY
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted June 03, 2009 12:48 AM |
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Edited by Jinxer at 00:48, 03 Jun 2009.
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Dont get me wrong here... my intentions are to merely post my opinions and outlook on arena.. NOT to critisize and belittle the arena map maker. Believe it or not.. I understand how hard it is to make maps.. and have to listen to people whine that they dont like this or that..
The part I keep getting hung up on with this idea of arena... is maybe my understanding of what it is all supposed to be about. My understanding was that it was supposed to be based around the best building of hero and then battle tactics to outsmart and outthink your opponent. And most importantly skip all the creeping... So if that is truely the goal.. why limit it so much. I mean... give all the options so that in the end.. with all counters and all options at your disposal you can build your strategy and plan your attack and then deploy it effectively...
Here is example.. 2 guys are dueling in the back alley.. and each has there OWN table of weapons to choose from. Both players walk up to there table to pick from there weapons to fight with..
Dude#1 looks at table and sees Knife...SteelBar...BeeBeeGun...Rope
Dude#2 looks at his table and sees Sword...ChainSaw...MachineGun....Poisen
Now Dude#1 is SOOO skillful with the knife.. he has NEVER lost with the knife... he is Stealth like.. so he grabs the knife and runs at his opponent.. who picks up the machine gun and mows him down before he gets within 2 steps of him Morale of the story.. Doesnt always matter how skilled you are.. if all the possible weapons are not present.. sometimes there just isnt anyway to defend/counter.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted June 03, 2009 12:55 AM |
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There was a time when I had everything enabled, spells, artifacts - everything. It was way to random, the luckier won and that went against the better player. Sure a better player may be able to think more creatively but he'll still lose to better luck with arties/spells. Often.
It would only be balanced if they were created as such. But they are not.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted June 03, 2009 01:38 AM |
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Edited by Jinxer at 01:42, 03 Jun 2009.
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Well I will admit that I dont know the BEST combination.. but I do know that the current setup needs ALOT of work.. Seems adding everything makes unbalance.. and having almost nothing like now is far from balanced...Need to find somewhere in the middle.... Just suggesting that the creators keep an open mind and allow for input to improve for future tournies.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted June 03, 2009 01:45 AM |
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Towerlord? Open mind? Does not compute
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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valkyrica
Supreme Hero
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posted June 03, 2009 09:16 AM |
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After every "decisive" loss, there have to be several posts against the setup in which the thrashing took place
I gotta mop the floor with Jinxer today, just to make him happy (i've reached the conclusion that he's an emo character, lives to be disappointed and flamed by everyone).
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I'm Guybrush Threepwood, mighty pirate
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Towerlord
Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
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posted June 03, 2009 09:53 AM |
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Strider sums up very well the issues of doing such radical changes to the map... also Elvin's has experienced these things and he knows what he's talking about.
And yes, I am damn proud of the way the map turned out to be, the balance is outstanding, never encountered on any arena version before. There is place for improvements of course, but the map is a masterpiece as it is.
And to end this case, I would like to point out some things about battles for Jinxer especially. I remember two replays of his, where extra fighting skills would really help him win:
1. recent game vs. Will, where Inferno hero came right after Haven hero, so he could perfectly counter Jinxer's Light with Dark.
Perfect spell for that scenario is Mass Endurance, and you should always have it when playing against dark faction, since there's a 50% chance of that kind of Atb
2. some time ago, Sq sent me a nice replay, where his Razzak washed Jinxer's dwarves completely. Jinxer chose the Roaring bears, and of course he couldn't stun Sq's brave golems, which took down Jinxer in the end. Roar doesn't work against so many creatures from academy, that the BlackBears seem natural choice, and would've been big help against those golems.
And these are only the obvious big mistakes, but a fine duelists eyes can spot many small ones, which add up and bring you to defeat in the end, in battles you can actually win...
I remember in the first games vs. Strider, I had a very big dilema:was he really lucky or did he really plan that?
And the stunning answer to that was, that he actually had those plans in mind.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted June 03, 2009 09:54 AM |
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You are such a considerate guy 
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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infinitus
Supreme Hero
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posted June 03, 2009 10:27 AM |
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Towerlord bring light in this world of darkness, good job
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Nothing's impossible
http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=loCSLJ6IodY
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feluniozbunio
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted June 03, 2009 12:10 PM |
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Towerlord, while its trure balacnce is fine, theres still room for tweaks here and there, i wouldnt call it masterpiece just yet
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted June 03, 2009 03:58 PM |
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Edited by Jinxer at 16:07, 03 Jun 2009.
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Quote:
Towerlord? Open mind? Does not compute
Elvin... seems you are right.
@ Tower... your own self praise is ashtonishing... You mean to tell me that 241 Golems on Razzak with speed/mini/defense arts and Huge stack of Gremlins to raise them could have easily been defeated if only I chose Black Bears!!! I think not.. ANYONE of my biggests stacks of any creature showed killing 1-3 golems per hit.. so Black Bears must have 10 Times the attack Rating? Ofcourse it sounds way kewl to talk tuff and talk as if you have the answers and Jinxer always picks the wrong choices... therefore, we should NEGATE his opinions. Face it you have some fans of your arena for sure.. But my guess is they are more a fan of the concept of arena and not necesarrily think the map setup is 100% perfect.. Maybe you should practice some humility.
And on a final note.. I would also suggest that before start claiming to be all knowing and CLAIMING to beable to win battles that seem outta reach... please start posting some replays where you took the save before the final battle and actually fought the battle and beat the outrageous odds instead of just BOASTING of how you the great tactical thinker could have done better..
It appears its contagious.. this board used to be to post opinions and thoughts and debate issues.. But seems less and less people are capable of doing it without personal attacks.
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