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| Thread: Personal attacks allowed on HC? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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JollyJoker
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posted April 27, 2009 07:47 AM |
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The post before the last one reads:
"I don't want to be bothered with this kind of BS."
Careful reading further teaches you a fine lesson, Phoenix:
Next time you have an issue with someone, just say, "For me, your posts are just deranged blabla", and you are in perfect harmony with CoC and the rules of this board. An alternative would be to wait until a person you want to attack is in a controversy with another person and then support that another person, by coming in with a, "Don't let these chairpoopers get to you, man".
A personal tip of me would be to adorn these posts with an elegant, "I (you) couldn't care less about... (what for me is just deranged blabla)".
Lastly, comparisons are no insult anyway, at least not for the law:
"You are a clown with no sense of any humor", is clearly a personal insult (even though one still rather deep on the provocation scale). However, "You behave like a clown who lacks any sense of humor" isn't.
So, "Don't let these foul-crying whimps get the better of you - I'm sure you couldn't care less about what for me and you would be just the deranged blabla of someone who behaves like a clown that lacks any sense of humor", is quite fine.
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pandora
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posted April 27, 2009 07:52 AM |
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I'm sure on some level your post makes perfect sense 
As for calling anyone a chairpooper, that's just silly.. what the heck is a chairpooper?
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JollyJoker
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posted April 27, 2009 08:20 AM |
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The post is unimportant - just a short tutorial on how to subtly insult people.
A chairpooper is someone whose profession is done while sitting on a chair, typically an official of any kind, who does use up their time by pooping.
So if you call someone a chairpooper, you say: "you are doing nothing else the whole day than sitting on a chair and poop instead of doing something useful."
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pandora
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posted April 27, 2009 08:37 AM |
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Edited by pandora at 09:07, 27 Apr 2009.
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I would say that most of the people you're directing that post at are already aware..
So you're clear though, I wasn't saying insults are okay.
I was kinda saying that I don't want to be bothered by BS though - why would anyone ever want such a thing? I imagine the chairpoopers have to deal with it, but I'd sooner not.
So you understand - I'm not saying that I see that PR was offended, but am saying he should get over it. I don't like to see anyone offended, but some battles you fight for yourself, especially the ones you start,
What I did was look over the thread, I saw Corribus being treated in a way that I felt was quite undeserved - people objected to some posting he was a part of but he did apologize and try to offer his point of view, rather than accept his apology i saw a continuation of the same train of though which led Corribus to say
Quote:
You know, I'm not sure when the people here became so nasty and sensitive, but this just isn't a very friendly environment anymore
I did not like to see that from him at all. I appreciate and respect his contributions, and if they stopped because of a mass inability to accept an apology and move on - that would really tick me off. But I wasn't around when it was posted, Gootch was - and frankly, he said what I was thinking.
Just because PR was the last poster, doesn't mean Gootch's comment was aimed right at PR - it was directed at those who Corribus referred to in his post.
Furthermore, if you read on just a wee bit more - PR first said that the Gootch's contribution wasn't pertinent - and why not? I felt at that post the conversation was about scolding Corribus in spite of his apology, leading Corribus to make a statement expressing displeasure at the state of HC.
Why would the Gootch not have a right to an opinion on that? Why should it not be pertinent for someone to defend Corribus when the others posting are against him posting randomness in a thread about.. what was it about?
I'm not saying that I agree with derailing threads away from their original intent, but I am against the way this whole thing has gone so far. By the way, if I'm to be handing out penalties - what of PR's provocation in posting that list in the first place? Or demanding that names be named in an earlier dictator reference? Or maybe just a direct insult in the comment about the Gootch's arrogance?
Seriously, if you're going to pick a fight - fight it. Don't throw stones and then become indignant when someone tosses one back...And if you must do that, keep me out of it 
Naturally the best solution is not to pick fights btw - in case any of you are still confuzzled. Play nice, get long blablablabla...
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"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
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Mytical
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posted April 27, 2009 09:38 AM |
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I agree with Pandora, but have a few minor things I would like to include. Things which I know will make me 'unpopular', but if I think something I say it.
We have been letting some remarks that come dangerously close to viloating (or even downright viloating) the CoC part about personal insults slide a little to much. I dislike censorship as much, and maybe more, then any other person on the board..but it is a slippary slope. Look as some of the things posted toward DarkCrystal lately. It is a sad state of affairs. It doesn't matter how 'serious' the post is either.
I am a live and let live type person, and though I have voiced disagreements about somethings I tend to let things slide. However, maybe things have slid to far. Yeah, we may risk alienating some of the members, and that is a bad thing, but it is my honest opinion that we have to draw a line. Once that line is crossed, regardless who that person is, they should be 1st) Warned, 2nd) Penalized, 3)Silenced, and then if needed 4) banned.
If people actually thought a little more about their posts, it would be a good thing. Hey, I am only the Roleplaying Moderator..and am a Noob at this Moderating thing also. I've voiced my opinion, and will bow to the more experienced moderators on the subject.
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Message received.
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Lexxan
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Unimpressed by your logic
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posted April 27, 2009 09:44 AM |
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*Sigh*
I can't but agree with Mytical and Pandora. This has gone too far, it's not much fun anymore. OSM is tainted (just look at the last 3 pages of Otherside feedback).
OSM has become some kind of degraded Wasteland, sadly.
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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JollyJoker
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posted April 27, 2009 09:49 AM |
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I've held back here until now, but I think that you are now pretty much on error mode, Pan.
If you reread the Feedback thread, bottom of page 35, your moderating colleague Angelito said, after PR requested a penalty for Corribus and MVass because of spamming a thread:
Quote:
The mentioned thread was cleaned right now.
Come on guys, can't you just let a thread go where the opener intentionally wants to go? Is it really needed we make a scientific lesson out of every word?
Just stay out of such threads if you can't contribute....please.
At this point there is no speculation needed about PR's motives or anything else - the things was settled: Public Attorney PR demanded a penalty and Honorable Judge Angelito made a compromising decision, agreeing with the correctness of complaint (by deleting posts considered spam), but disagreeing with the demand for a penalty (other than deleting the spam).
Case actually closed.
But no. At this point Corribus isn't happy with the mod decision and argues, speaking of unfair deleting if no one can prove to him something that Judge A did tell him already doesn't have to be proven, since it should have been clear waht OP intended.
Father, Bak and William agree with PR, mind you, and Corribus tells them they should chill out, it would be a stupid argument. Note, though, that the argument has come only over his protest against Judge Angelito's action.
Corribus changes tack, telling everyone that "whining to the moderatots" would have been unnecessary when all this could have been discussed amicably like adults do - forgetting, though, that after Judge Angelito's MOD descision he is now the whiner.
He comes up with something that starts like an apology to Lucky_Dwarf(I'm really sorry), but ends as a lecturing about language and its use and a general excuse, blaming overwhelming "viciousness of the collective response" as a reason for a general great misunderstanding of his pure intentions (which means that he is not excusing in any way, but simply blaming the others for anything that happened).
When "the others" are not having anything of this, he comes up with "this is no friendly environment anymore because all are so nasty and sensitive", which is a bit, well... find your own word. The immediate reply coing to mind would be a "Oh, come on now".
After a sarcastic retort of Corribus PR demands another penalty. Now Cepheus and Gootch are coming to the rescue of Corribus. While Cepheus may see things differently than PR, he's just entering the (rather needless) discussion. Gootch, however, makes it immediately personal. In his second post he says something like - carefully phrased - Corribus was a really valuable member of the community and deserves a little leeway.
Let's just say that this opinion about how the laws should be enforced is quite doubtful - past merits shouldn't play a role in deciding about guilt, but they SHOULD play a role when judging out the penalty; both of which, remember, Angelito has already done.
This leads to the next unnecessary discussion in which Gooch - and this is a summary - tell PR, that compared to Corribus he is a clown and a whiner and therefore everything sarcastic and provoking directed at him was well-deserved, which clearly is not true, since PR can point to the fact that Corribu's comments were deleted.
At this point PR demands an apology from Gooch - and he has a right to do so: he has done nothing that was not in line with the CoC and hasn't let himself been goaded by Gootch into a harsh retort. Instead PR simply pointed to the CoC. After nothing happened he appealed to the mods (instead of paying Gootch or anyone else back with the same currency).
The reaction he got was one of a biassed judge, because you, Pan, admitted to sharing Gootch's views about Corribus (even though there has been a clear mod decision AGAINST him by deleting his posts), which is called favoritism.
Which is what PR got for his troubles, which is, why I gave him a lesson in subtle insulting - he obviously can't and won't ever go to a mod again and needs to be able to help himself.
Now, don't misunderstand me, I don't have anything against any of the people mentioned here, but there is one very simple thing here that I find decisive: the thing had long been decided by a mod, and one has to ask the question whether a further (open) discussion about that was called for or necessary.
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pandora
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posted April 27, 2009 10:06 AM |
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Edited by pandora at 10:23, 27 Apr 2009.
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Quote:
The reaction he got was one of a biassed judge, because you, Pan, admitted to sharing Gootch's views about Corribus (even though there has been a clear mod decision AGAINST him by deleting his posts), which is called favoritism.
Strongly disagree.
I've not once spoken against Angelito's action in deleting the posts, I did not ever hear Angelito claim that corribus was a valueless member of the community - so in my statement that I agreed with the_Gootch in trying to encourage Corribus not to let things get him down is so not favouritism - and at no point have I disagreed with Angelito.
What Corribus did is no different than what you did in an eerily similar discussion - should I have penalized you, pegged you as a whiner and not allowed you to say anything on your behalf? Hmmm...
Remember this?
Quote:
The notion of being exiled comes from reading about people complaining about having to "endure" a 3-page discussion revolving around the definition of love in a thread called "What is love" and the comments that the OSM is suffering from those things.
If that's off-topic, everything is.
change the love to randomness - and we're back in the same boat but with a different captain - aren't we? Either way, that's not the issue - I wasn't speaking about Corribus' posts in another thread or regarding that thread, Angelito handled it. I was talking about everyone's inability to let it go once it was over, and the way the discussion escalated after.
In addition, I've been speaking to PR on HCM, he understand where I'm at on this - and I have never said to him once that he can't approach me. If I said at any point that I disliked PR, or claimed to have agreed with the_Gootch in saying that his contributions have no value - then maybe you could say that I am guilty of favouritism.
That's simply not the case, but a fine example of how you can pick and choose from a discussion to find excerpts to support any theory you'd like.
I think that PR and the Gootch are on even ground as far as insults go - so what? Its just what I think - have I penalized anyone? No. I even stated that I wasn't posting as mod Pan, because I don't have the energy or inclination towards coddling anyone...
I just said how I see it, two grown men were arguing and not being especially nice - they don't need me to slap hands or scold anyone.
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JollyJoker
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posted April 27, 2009 10:38 AM |
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Corribus isn't the point, remember?
Angelito cleared this.
Gootch has been the actual point - and your actual reasoning to PR about why his demand for an apology isn't justified is based on the fact that you happened to agree with him about his opinion about Corribus.
However, that's not the issue. PR demands an apology because Gootch said something like "PR never made any valuable contribution", which has nothing to do with Corribus at all.
With all respect, if you agree to a causal chain that says, A made X valuable contributions; B made less (or none, which is the issue here), therefore B isn't entitled to call A for any conductorial misbehavioiur, I'd have serious doubts concerning your fitness to moderate.
However, it's not my intention to discuss this - the CoC doesn't guarantee perfect moderation or infallibility of mods, so what?
I just commented on it, helpfully, since I felt PR's point is misunderstood.
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Elvin
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posted April 27, 2009 10:50 AM |
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So many words over so simple an issue.
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pandora
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posted April 27, 2009 10:51 AM |
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Edited by pandora at 10:53, 27 Apr 2009.
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Quote:
and your actual reasoning to PR about why his demand for an apology isn't justified is based on the fact that you happened to agree with him about his opinion about Corribus
When did I say that?? lol
Is it that fun to pick fights with me? Really?
The only thing that I objected to is that PR gave us 48 hours to reply, or he would be 'forced' to make this thread. He knows that - I've talked to him.
He can ask for an apology all he wants! But I'm not going to drag the_Gootch to a corner by his ear and not let him play with the other kids if he doesn't give it. That's not my job.
I don't want to be asked to start penalizing, because I can see it both ways.
I'd rather a situation where they just decide that this whole thing is a waste of time and drop it.
Quote:
With all respect, if you agree to a causal chain that says, A made X valuable contributions; B made less (or none, which is the issue here), therefore B isn't entitled to call A for any conductorial misbehavioiur, I'd have serious doubts concerning your fitness to moderate
Where do you get this stuff? You're just blowing my mind lol this scenario is only playing out in your imagination...All I said was that I'd hate to see Corribus go because of this type of thing. Thats it. I never asked PR to leave, never threatened him, never said that I didn't want to be his friend anymore or any of that - in fact at no point have I put Corribus and PR on any sort of scale to weigh and measure them against each other.
I don't want anyone to leave, except maybe me...
and btw when someone says "with all respect" as a preface to an insult, I think its no secret what that really means... so why bother with it?
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"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
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Binabik
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posted April 27, 2009 11:18 AM |
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Quote:
So many words over so simple an issue.
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Azagal
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posted April 27, 2009 11:22 AM |
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Edited by Azagal at 11:24, 27 Apr 2009.
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Arrarara so much text oO. But I read it all .
Well all I can say is that I agree with Pans first post. Phoenix... come on. Don't take the guy serious, please. I mean just look at him. Look at the manner he replied to you and he does to most people who do not see him as that "really cool guy". lol it's so not worth your time. It reaaaaally isn't.
Hmm and now comes the discussion part... Actually I had a few quotes were I thought I'd point out a few things but seeing how everybody is already fed up with this I think it's better to not spent too much time on this (sad isn't it? But yeah back to the issue).
I actually don't see where JJ is wrong (except for perhaps the way he's adressing Pan after she apparently must have been getting on his nerves). But I think it's her second or first post, the one where she points out she's not mod-pan but pan-pan. I really understand the argument that grown ups should be able to settle their issues on their own and that she doesn't see how she's neccesasary in this (if I understood that correctly) but what I don't find particulary "correct" is the whole way she was defending TheGootch. It's not about what kind of person he is, it's about what he said and how he said it. And if Phoenix chooses to act on it (as much as everyone else may be right that it'd be better to let it rest) Gootch is the guilty one. No matter how you turn or twist the issue and no matter how many people here think he's great etc. I can understand that you'd be sad if Corribus left (a whole lot of people would be) but he is not the issue at all as JJ already pointed out. And eventhough it was pan-pan who said it (right? Or did I missunderstand that too ?) I really don't like the sound of it. But that's just me~~~
But yeah Phoenix... sooooo not worth it. In german we say that one should be "standing above the things". And I'm pretty sure you can manage.
Quote:
So many words over so simple an issue.
Yeah. And now check the sides and their reactions/arguments and you'd actually see how it makes sense. But yeah giving a dandy line is easier.
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JollyJoker
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posted April 27, 2009 11:45 AM |
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Quotes are all from ypu, Pan:
Quote:
I don't like to see anyone offended, but some battles you fight for yourself, especially the ones you start...
Quote:
I saw Corribus being treated in a way that I felt was quite undeserved - people objected to some posting he was a part of but he did apologize and try to offer his point of view, rather than accept his apology i saw a continuation of the same train of though which led Corribus to say.
Quote:
You know, I'm not sure when the people here became so nasty and sensitive, but this just isn't a very friendly environment anymore
I did not like to see that from him at all. I appreciate and respect his contributions, and if they stopped because of a mass inability to accept an apology and move on - that would really tick me off. But I wasn't around when it was posted, Gootch was - and frankly, he said what I was thinking.
[comment]No favoritism?[/comment]
Quote:
Just because PR was the last poster, doesn't mean Gootch's comment was aimed right at PR - it was directed at those who Corribus referred to in his post.
[comment]You mean all the "nasties" who didn't want to accept his "apology" [/comment]
Quote:
I felt at that post the conversation was about scolding Corribus in spite of his apology, leading Corribus to make a statement expressing displeasure at the state of HC.
Why would the Gootch not have a right to an opinion on that? Why should it not be pertinent for someone to defend Corribus when the others posting are against him posting randomness in a thread about.. what was it about?
[comment] Angelito had already deleted Corribus' posts, so this is actually expressing doubt in the decision of your colleague: if Angelito's decision was right, there is obviously no point in someone defending what has been considered officially spam. [/comment]
Now this:
I said:
Quote:
With all respect, if you agree to a causal chain that says, A made X valuable contributions; B made less (or none, which is the issue here), therefore B isn't entitled to call A for any conductorial misbehavioiur, I'd have serious doubts concerning your fitness to moderate
You say: Quote:
Where do you get this stuff? You're just blowing my mind lol this scenario is only playing out in your imagination...All I said was that I'd hate to see Corribus go because of this type of thing. Thats it. I never asked PR to leave, never threatened him, never said that I didn't want to be his friend anymore or any of that - in fact at no point have I put Corribus and PR on any sort of scale to weigh and measure them against each other.
I don't want anyone to leave, except maybe me...
and btw when someone says "with all respect" as a preface to an insult, I think its no secret what that really means... so why bother with it?
May I remind you that you also said:
Quote:
But I wasn't around when it was posted, Gootch was - and frankly, he said what I was thinking.
However, what Gooch said, was exactly what I said "With all respect". If you agree with Gooch, you agree with that as well, but if you don't, you don't agree with Gooch.
What I said would be felt as an insult by you only if it was true, since it's prefaced by an IF. In that case, though, it would be true, and therefore no insult but a simple fact, or would you disagree?
The logical consequence is that you actually don't agree with Gooch.
Let me add (again), that I don't see the need to discuss this further. You've made your point - the first quote in this post -, and all I did was offering PR a little advice concerning the right procedure to follow your counsel.
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"Nobody dies a virgin ... Life f*cks us all." - Kurt Cobain
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TitaniumAlloy
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posted April 27, 2009 12:38 PM |
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everyone in this thread is a clown
except me of course!
(i hope)
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baklava
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posted April 27, 2009 01:04 PM |
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ITT
Adults acting like teenagers and telling other adults to act like adults
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pandora
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posted April 27, 2009 02:35 PM |
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I'm finished.
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"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
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mvassilev
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posted April 27, 2009 02:51 PM |
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For once the mods make a good decision - and there are still people complaining! What's the deal?
JJ:
Quote:
This leads to the next unnecessary discussion in which Gooch - and this is a summary - tell PR, that compared to Corribus he is a clown and a whiner and therefore everything sarcastic and provoking directed at him was well-deserved, which clearly is not true, since PR can point to the fact that Corribu's comments were deleted.
Now that's faulty reasoning right there. First, the mods can make mistakes - what if this was one of them? Second, that PR can point to the deletion of Corribus's posts is completely irrelevant to the issue at hand, because just because they were deleted doesn't mean that the (allegedly provocative) comments were untrue.
And Corribus's posts are usually of such high quality that compared to him, nearly everyone is a clown and whiner - myself included. So it's really blowing things out of proportion.
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JollyJoker
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posted April 27, 2009 03:27 PM |
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Quote:
For once the mods make a good decision - and there are still people complaining! What's the deal?
JJ:
Quote:
This leads to the next unnecessary discussion in which Gooch - and this is a summary - tell PR, that compared to Corribus he is a clown and a whiner and therefore everything sarcastic and provoking directed at him was well-deserved, which clearly is not true, since PR can point to the fact that Corribu's comments were deleted.
Now that's faulty reasoning right there. First, the mods can make mistakes - what if this was one of them? Second, that PR can point to the deletion of Corribus's posts is completely irrelevant to the issue at hand, because just because they were deleted doesn't mean that the (allegedly provocative) comments were untrue.
And Corribus's posts are usually of such high quality that compared to him, nearly everyone is a clown and whiner - myself included. So it's really blowing things out of proportion.
Let's see if I can follow your logic:
1) The fact that Corribus' posts got deleted does NOT justify PR's complaining about them - thereby NOT showing that he didn't whine, but had a point -, since mods can err.
2) The fact that Corribus' posts were deleted doesn't mean they were untrue. As far as I remember, truth wasn't the issue at any point.
3) Even Corribus' spam is usually of such high quality that nearly everyone is a clown and a whiner compared to him - including yourself.
I'm going to let that stand in its own beauty and venture the question, whether the Corribus-Demigod figurines are already on sale somewhere here and the new Corribus Shrine is finished yet.
I might add (again), that I was only trying to be helpful, giving PR a little advice on how to enact what Pandora counselled - stop whining and try and fight his own battles.
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angelito
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posted April 27, 2009 05:18 PM |
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So do I have to add something to that discussion aswell?
I was gone for 2 days only......
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